Why doesn't the AI use nukes - Page 2

chris1 · June 22, 2003, 08:07

i've noticed quite alot of bugs in the AI, for example if you have america as a AI the other Ais will automaticly attack them for some bizzare reason, i even tried it on island same result they got attacked. bit peculiar that.

Australia nearly always uses nukes

Russia will

If you have Either:

England
scotland
ireland
wales

they always end up being the most aggressive,

the best civs to play with are:

Mexico
England
Scotland
Ireland
Wales
Australia
Russia

let me know what you think

Tamerlin · June 22, 2003, 09:32

I must admit I have never paid enough attention to the personnalities of the AI until the Democracy Game. After the DG and this thread this is the kind of informations I will use more efficiently to manage the AI civs.

Gilgamensch · June 23, 2003, 05:37

AFAIR England likes to backstab you.

Australia, I hardly had in my games...

A CIV with which you can come along nice is India, with M. Ghandi.

Quote:

I am not sure I should keep posting here...

Be aware we have your address and our nukes are ready to be launched

About the Armageddon: I never really seen it happen in CTP1/2

The cruise missile: Never build it, seems to be useless.........

Tamerlin · June 23, 2003, 07:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
AFAIR England likes to backstab you.

Perfidious Albion...

Quote:

Be aware we have your address and our nukes are ready to be launched

I thought you all were a cool bunch of people and you all are agressive Chaotic Evil maniacs...

Quote:

The cruise missile: Never build it, seems to be useless.........

Given its cost and its one time use the attack strength and range should be largely increased for the cruise missile to be usefull.

The Big Mc · June 23, 2003, 08:17

Quote:

Given its cost and its one time use the attack strength and range should be largely increased for the cruise missile to be usefull.

but that is easily fixed

Gilgamensch · June 23, 2003, 08:20

Quote:

I thought you all were a cool bunch of people and you all are agressive Chaotic Evil maniacs...

maybe
Chaotic Evil Maniacs, uuuuuuuuuuuusssssssss?????????????

never, we are all

angels

Quote:

Given its cost and its one time use the attack strength and range should be largely increased for the cruise missile to be usefull.

Should be like 2-3 times it's value, than it would make sense. But otherwise...............
Not sure, if the AI would know how to use them though.........

The Big Mc · June 23, 2003, 08:30

Try replacing this one with the cruise m I have doubled its attack and range + full and reduced the cost be 2/3

Code:

############################################################

## UNIT 17
UNIT_CRUISE_MISSILE {
   Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_CRUISE_MISSILE
   DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_CRUISE_MISSILE
   DefaultSprite SPRITE_CRUISE_MISSILE
   Category UNIT_CATEGORY_AERIAL
   Attack 120
   Defense 10
   ZBRangeAttack 60
   Firepower 1
   Armor 1
   MaxHP 10
   ShieldCost 600
   PowerPoints 100
   ShieldHunger 20
   FoodHunger 0
   MaxMovePoints 2000
   VisionRange 2
   EnableAdvance ADVANCE_GUIDED_WEAPON_SYSTEMS
   BombRounds 10
   BombardRange 1
   ActiveDefenseRange 0
   LossMoveToDmgNone
   NoFuelThenCrash
   MaxFuel 2000
   IgnoreZOC
   NoZoc
   CanBeachAssault
   CantCaptureCity
   SingleUse
   Explodes
   SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_CRUISE_MISSILE
   SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_CRUISE_MISSILE
   SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_CRUISE_MISSILE
   SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_CRUISE_MISSILE
   SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_CRUISE_MISSILE
   SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_CRUISE_MISSILE
   SoundWork SOUND_WORK_CRUISE_MISSILE
   SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_CRUISE_MISSILE
   SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_CRUISE_MISSILE

   CanAttack: Land
   CanAttack: Mountain
   CanAttack: Air
   CanAttack: Sea
   CanAttack: ShallowWater
   CanSee: Standard
   MovementType: Air
   Size: Small
   VisionClass: Standard
}

############################################################

Gilgamensch · June 23, 2003, 08:41

Just to check:

It would have a range of 20?
Attack of 120?

What was ZBRangeAttack again?

But will the AI use it?????????????????????

I'll might gonna try tomorrow, tonight I'll be out.................

Thanks

Immortal Wombat · June 23, 2003, 08:48

"It would have a range of 20?" Yes
"Attack of 120?" Yes
"What was ZBRangeAttack again?" The ranged attack statistic that archer's use. This usually doesn't matter for missiles, since you won't stack them, or if you do, the attack stat of 120 will put them in the front row.

"But will the AI use it?????????????????????" Yes. Because it's a replacement, the entry is already in the AI files.

Tamerlin · June 23, 2003, 09:02

Quote:

Originally posted by The Big Mc
Try replacing this one with the cruise m I have doubled its attack and range + full and reduced the cost be 2/3 :evil

Thanks the Big Mc, I will try these new settings in my next game...

Peter Triggs · June 23, 2003, 09:10

Quote:

"But will the AI use it?????????????????????" Yes. Because it's a replacement, the entry is already in the AI files.

But it's not in the AI unitbuildlists, so you'll have to add it in there.

The fact that it's not in those buildlists leads me to suspect that they didn't write any proper code to handle cruise missiles.

The Big Mc · June 23, 2003, 09:34

if you want I could work on a quick mod to make 2 cruse m units one with twice the rang of the one above but with 1/2 the attack power

Gilgamensch · June 23, 2003, 10:04

Quote:

if you want I could work on a quick mod to make 2 cruse m units one with twice the rang of the one above but with 1/2 the attack power

Big Mc, how do you want to call the long range version? Maybe toothpick? Might have the same result

Peter,

that's kind of what I am worried about, even with adding it to the buildlist, I don't think the AI will know how to use them.

I see couple of different ways:

1.) Last defence for a remote city (softening an attacker)
2.) Interception of an incoming invasion fleet.
3.) Softening of a city, which you want to attack and you haven't got enough artillery
4.) crosswater harrasment

But all of those would require a fairly huge amount of missiles..........

Immortal Wombat · June 23, 2003, 10:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Triggs
But it's not in the AI unitbuildlists, so you'll have to add it in there.

The fact that it's not in those buildlists leads me to suspect that they didn't write any proper code to handle cruise missiles.

*blink*
So the AI doesn't use Cruise Missiles in the default game? I didn't know that; how stupid.

The Big Mc · June 23, 2003, 11:48

Cruise Missiles mk t

its there for long range bombardment of enemy cities.

chris1 · July 1, 2003, 09:13

I have found the solution as to why the AI hardly ever uses nukes, I gave all the nations around me 5-7 nukes, i had about 10. they all did exactly the same thing they put the nukecity command on, so the only way to get them to nuke you is for you to nuke them, i doubt the AI would bother nuking each other but it does happen.

Also do not do what i did and build multiple amounts of nukes so when the enemy does nuke you you automaticly nuke them, destryoing the world!!!!!!

Martin Gühmann · July 1, 2003, 12:42

Here is the lunch nukes strategy from the GM1_strategies.txt:

Code:

////////////////////////////////////////
//
// Nuclear Strategies
//
////////////////////////////////////////

STRATEGY_LAUNCH_NUKES {
	NuclearFirstStrike: Enabled
	NuclearTargeting: Enabled

	// do not perform first strike if our regard is above some limit
	PreemptiveStrikeRegard 100

	// how many foreign boom booms are enough to wipe us off the map?
	// (eg. if more than 1 foreign nuke to every 4 of our cities would be
	//  enough to prevent us from launching, specify 0.25)
	PreemptiveStrikeRiskRatio 0.35

	// when do we have enough nukes to wipe them off the map?
	// (eg. if having less than 3 nukes to every 4 enemy cities prevents 
	//  us from launching, specify 0.75)
	PreemptiveStrikeSuperiorityRatio 0.65

}

You see NuclearFirstStrike is enabled here. But this strategy is not the default strategy. In all the other strategies NuclearFirstStrike is disabled. So if you like to see more boom booms then you have to enable NuclearFirstStrike also in the other startegies in the strategie.txt of your mod.

-Martin

Tamerlin · July 1, 2003, 13:35

Thanks Martin, but is not the game susceptible to end in a nuclear apocalypse too often as the AI Civs are managing their diplomacy like berserkers?

Maquiladora · July 1, 2003, 15:12

Whats so bad about that?

Just wipe em out before nuclear power or be prepared to build some anti-ballistic missiles.

Tamerlin · July 1, 2003, 18:21

I am what is called an Empire Builder, once I have conquered one or two nations around me to grow quickly and secure my borders I am not that interested in cleaning the map out of the AI civs. After this, my attacks are limited to preemptive strikes. I am not interested in the conquest victory. I am afraid that ennemies using nukes at the first opportunity would force me to wipe them out as soon as possible.

Maquiladora · July 2, 2003, 02:39

Not if you can make peace with reasonable ones, and you can do that with basically all AI's below Aggressive Imperialist. I like the idea if you dont wipe out the totally insane countries before nuclear power, then theyre a real threat to the world, even the minor countries.

Tamerlin · July 2, 2003, 06:44

Maquiladora, even when I am very kind with them, the AI civs are acting like berserkers. I played a game where I gave a Civ something like 100,000 gold every turn or so as it was at war with the AI Civ just behind me. I even captured one or two cities and gave them to my ally only keeping one city as a foothold on the continent they occupied. In the middle of the process, my "ally" backstabbed me to take the city I kept for myself in order to build and transport troops to help him.

Note: I won't reply any post until the 21st of July as I am going away and will not have the possibility to connect to the Internet (

)... have fun!

Gilgamensch · July 2, 2003, 08:42

Nice holidays,

but for this problem:

I had an AI next to me, left with only 1 city, me having the 'latest' techs, while he was still on Phalanxes (OK, bit over the top.......).

Believe it or not, he declared war on me and tried to attack my 12 stack tanks with his rubbish...........

The Big Mc · July 2, 2003, 10:38

the ai is mad

chris1 · July 3, 2003, 17:18

If you steal from the Ai using spies this drives them insane and they want to wipe you out

Pillaging and bloodbaths also can make AI's nuke you back into the stoneage.

Gilgamensch · July 4, 2003, 05:00

I hardly use the spies, unless for defend against their spies............

Bloodbath ans similar shouldn't have been a problem either, as my last occupation was like 30 turns ago and I really didn't do anything................

chris1 · July 4, 2003, 12:24

i always build lots of spies so i don't have to spend my time researching just simply steal it. But this causes the AI to hate me horribly, particulary if they're slavers or militant states

Maquiladora · July 4, 2003, 15:18

Spies make excellent units to know when your enemy is about to mobilize for an attack because they have 3 vision range, if you just sit them on the edge of his/her borders or your own.

Quote:

Maquiladora, even when I am very kind with them, the AI civs are acting like berserkers. I played a game where I gave a Civ something like 100,000 gold every turn or so as it was at war with the AI Civ just behind me. I even captured one or two cities and gave them to my ally only keeping one city as a foothold on the continent they occupied. In the middle of the process, my "ally" backstabbed me to take the city I kept for myself in order to build and transport troops to help him.

That sounds like Cradle or WaW mod? In which case i can understand why a nuclear standoff would be slightly more dangerous, or not really a standoff just a toxic bloodbath.

But i think it would be a good idea in the unmodded/SAP2 game to enable preemptive nuclear strikes for the AI.

Martin Gühmann · July 5, 2003, 14:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Maquiladora
But i think it would be a good idea in the unmodded/SAP2 game to enable preemptive nuclear strikes for the AI.

I don't think that it helps in the unmodded game to enable the first strike for the AI, because I was always much further then the AI, so that it wasn't able to develope nukes, before I build the nano defuser.

-Martin

Maquiladora · July 5, 2003, 16:09

Thats true, but perhaps Super Apolyton pack still. I havent tried allowing the AI preemptive nuclear strikes so i wouldnt know exactly how it pans out in a game, but it would be nice to be nuked occaisionally by the AI though.