Bush Address To United Nations

[Chris 62]

To clarify, since some, like our Russia friend, are a little slow:
I said:
"I wonder when France and Russia will agree to lift the sanctions on Iraq, they were hot to do it with Saddam there, now, they want Mr MaGoo to go back and certify things."

The link says:
"France, in an unexpected move toward the U.S. position, called Tuesday for trade and economic sanctions against Iraq (news - web sites) to be suspended...French officials insisted that U.N. inspectors join U.S.-supervised disarmament squads in Iraq, a demand U.S. officials consider a deal-breaker. "

In other worrd, what I said the first time.

Why are some of you having trouble grasping this?

[Az]

My stance considering the government in Cuba has changed recently, since when I read the ordeals an Israeli writer that went to live there, got imprisoned as an agent of the Mossad.

[SlowwHand]

So even now the protests basis change.

You better buckle up.
I keep trying to remind, Bush said wherever it's found.

Your attempts for Iraq were misguided, and extremely late.

I asked many times also, "Who's next"?

"Wherever it's found."

Terrorists, be they Arab, or IRA, or Australian Bushman, or American Citizens are going to ultimately get the message.
Terrorism won't be tolerated. Period.

[cinch]

In this instince, they are.

France wants to suspend the sanctions, which is definitely a modification. All suspension are modifications. But all modifications aren't suspensions. You said that France only wants to "modify" the sanctions, not cancel them, which implies that they want to, perhaps, lessen the strength of the sanctions. When you say "modify" it makes it seem like the sanctions would still be present, when, in fact, they won't be. They'll be "suspended".

The two words give two very different meanings in this case.

[Spiffor]

Azazel : your new avatar sucks

Chris : What exactly is wrong with UN inspectors being there ? It doesn't mean the Iraqis have to suffer from the dreaded sanctions anyways.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Well two wrongs do not make a right... so Bush Castro



Still it would be nice that Bush does what he speaks about, but where is Afghanistan in the news? I hope they are progressing nicely, they must be doing well with all the help they are getting for country rebuilding...

No national aspiration, no remembered
wrong can ever justify the deliberate murder of the innocent. Any government that rejects this
principle, trying to pick and choose its terrorist friends, will know the consequences."

and is he telling us that Saddam was attacked because his links with 9-11? Or maybe we will see a crusade and changeover of all the dictatorships in the world and all those that kill innocent people too like the Saudis ... sure... or maybe US will stop favouring the murdering bastards just because they give support to US actions .. yeah right... ... and all the rest

Or maybe this is a talk to convince the people that what US is doing at the moment is done because it was a moral imperative...

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

As much as I hate the American imperialism, I think this sentence is utterly and absolutely stupid. The Cuban people are mostly free of US influence, sure, but are bound with Castro's authoritarian regime. Free ? My ass

Sorry I disagree. In the real world the options the Cuban people have are either Fidel or another Batista. I know which I'd rather have and I know which the Cubans would rather have. I know none of you like it, but the vast majority of the Cuban people really love Fidel.

Which would you rather have, Fidel or Batista II?

If the US simply left Cuba alone, you would find that there would be no need for these measures. But they won't because they never have. They have wanted and continue to want Cuba for themselves.

[Kuciwalker]

Agathon, you're paranoid.

[Az]

Spiff: any better suggestions?

I am getting wierd avatars, sometimes of people I hate. I had an Usama avatar, a Celine Dione avatar...

[Chris 62]

Look again.

They want to "suspend", IE "change the current conditions," based, as I said intially, on criteria they wish, NOT just ending them outright.
France's plan would mean the oil for palaces...er, .."food" program would continue indefinately.

Change of condition is a MODIFACATION.

[SlowwHand]

You're so full of bullshit.
All we get from Cuba are refugees and baseball players, still refugees.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Chris 62
In this instince, they are.

Pay attention.

Read what Cinch said.

And as I've done many times, I'm not going to mention how you can't seem to effectively command your own language. Russians can be very nice people if you get on their good side.......So I'll spare you the humiliation

NEITHER mean ending it.

Actually, the word "suspension" means to end until a specific period of time. If a student is suspended, then his education will end until a certain period of time.

The word modification however means to change. So if a student has a status modification, it does not mean he was suspended.....It means they may have put "Brilliant" or "Mental Disorder OCD" or whatever.

Considering your obvious lack of known word uses, I think this link may be helpful.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Azazel
My stance considering the government in Cuba has changed recently, since when I read the ordeals an Israeli writer that went to live there, got imprisoned as an agent of the Mossad.

Are you surprised? How irrational and unjust for the Cuban government to be suspicious of the closest ally of a country that has made no secret of it's ambition to see Cuba run as an American province.

These attempts to turn Castro into Stalin or Ceaucescu are risible. He isn't like them at all. His crimes, if they could be called that, don't have anything to do with Communism. Rather they have to do with his desire to keep Cuba independent of US influence.

Wow, the Cuban people should really want to be free. Just like the Nicaraguans, the Guatemalans, Chileans and all the other people the US f*cked over in the name of freedom.

[Kuciwalker]

Chris - in this instance, modify does NOT mean suspend. Suspend means they are actually REMOVED for some period of time, whereas if they are modified they are simply CHANGED, and not necessarily removed for any period of time.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by skywalker
Agathon, you're paranoid.

If so, it's a paranoia based on history.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Agathon


Sorry I disagree. In the real world the options the Cuban people have are either Fidel or another Batista. I know which I'd rather have and I know which the Cubans would rather have. I know none of you like it, but the vast majority of the Cuban people really love Fidel.

Which would you rather have, Fidel or Batista II?

If the US simply left Cuba alone, you would find that there would be no need for these measures. But they won't because they never have. They have wanted and continue to want Cuba for themselves.

mate... you need to go and live a few years in cuba like a cuban and give us your opinion, or perhaps you would be trying to flee Cuba and enter the US illegally...

that does not mean that Batista would be better, but it surely can be better than it is now... and history has a tendency to change

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Chris : What exactly is wrong with UN inspectors being there ? It doesn't mean the Iraqis have to suffer from the dreaded sanctions anyways.

Why not drop the sanctions outright, and than insist on the Un inspectors returning?

Why is it critical to tie this together, when France certifed that Iraq should be sanction free since 1998?

Why do they NOW insist sanctions NOt be lifted outright, yet pushed for EXACTLY that when Saddam was still in charge?

My answer is I don't trust France or the inspectors the UN sent, a third party should be formed.

[Kuciwalker]

Agathon - how can you lump American's together? There may be some people who want to see it annexed, but there are many more who do not. There is no such thing as "American Imperialism"; half the people who complain about it are American!

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Look again.

They want to "suspend", IE "change the current conditions," based, as I said intially, on criteria they wish, NOT just ending them outright.

Yes, again you are right when you say Modification, however you have to understand that when most people hear "modify", they think "changing but keeping intact" eg "We modified the agreement to allow BLahblah 2 Missiles".

That is DIFFERENT than "We SUSPENDED the agreement". Not ending forever, but ending for a period of time. Technically it is a form of modification, however in any literal sense using the word "modification" in place of "suspension" is incredibly poor writing and shows an obvious lack of knowledge on the writers part.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
You're so full of bullshit.
All we get from Cuba are refugees and baseball players, still refugees.

See, you won't answer the question. I'll ask it again. Will the Cuban people be better off under Castro's regime in which they have excellent health care and world class education or under some US sponsored authoritarian regime in which their children will be free to work in sweatshops for 2 cents an hour?

[Kuciwalker]

I'll answer it like this. Have you noticed a bunch of refugees from America trying to get into Cuba?

[Az]

Are you surprised? How irrational and unjust for the Cuban government to be suspicious of the closest ally of a country that has made no secret of it's ambition to see Cuba run as an American province

a) you shouldn't start with 'Nation' and end up with 'American'. say 'itself' or something.

b) yep. The Mossad was subcontracting for the americans.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by skywalker
Agathon - how can you lump American's together? There may be some people who want to see it annexed, but there are many more who do not. There is no such thing as "American Imperialism"; half the people who complain about it are American!

Apologies.

I usually use "Americans" and "the US" in two senses. One the people that live there (some of whom have strange ideas, but most of whom are alright) and the centres of political power. It's the latter sense here.

If you look at history the US government has never made much of a secret of its desire to basically run Cuba.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Read what Cinch said.

Read what i said.

And as I've done many times, I'm not going to mention how you can't seem to effectively command your own language. Russians can be very nice people if you get on their good side.......So I'll spare you the humiliation

Of knowing Russians?

You should hold yourself in higher esteme.
Yes, you get the facts wrong and forever twist the truth, but your not all bad.

Actually, the word "suspension" means to end until a specific period of time.

Which is a MODIFACTION of the sanctions, thanks for proving my case.

If a student is suspended, then his education will end until a certain period of time.

Context, dear fellow.

The word modification however means to change. So if a student has a status modification, it does not mean he was suspended.....It means they may have put "Brilliant" or "Mental Disorder OCD" or whatever.

As in to change the conditions...exactly waht France is trying to do.

Considering your obvious lack of known word uses, I think this link may be helpful.[/URL]

HA HA HA HA

Typical Russian, wrong as could be and will never admit it!

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Azazel

Quote:

Are you surprised? How irrational and unjust for the Cuban government to be suspicious of the closest ally of a country that has made no secret of it's ambition to see Cuba run as an American province

a) you shouldn't start with 'Nation' and end up with 'American'. say 'itself' or something.

b) yep. The Mossad was subcontracting for the americans.

So you're criticising the style rather than the substance?

[SlowwHand]

Cuba. Forget Cuba. Cuba isn't a pimple on the real world's ass.

Yeah. Bush is sending the 101 there right now.

[Az]

So you're criticising the style rather than the substance?

I was just giving you a friendly tip for the future.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by skywalker
I'll answer it like this. Have you noticed a bunch of refugees from America trying to get into Cuba?

Excellent. I've been waiting for someone to fall into this hole.

The real question is, "why should this argument be used solely against Cuba?"

After all there are more Mexicans trying to get into the US than Cubans. Add to that all the other Latin American aliens trying to get into the US and you don't have a case.

No one, least of all me, is saying that the standard of living in Cuba is better than the US (although it is for some people in some ways), but it certainly is better than that enjoyed by many of its neighbours.

If the embargo ended I think that Cuba would be much better off. But we all know what would happen then - other Latin American countries would start getting funny ideas, and the US won't stand for that.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Context, dear fellow.

If someone said "I just modified the agremeent", there is NO contextual basis for thinking that they suspended it.

Again, I have admitted that a suspension is a form of modification (you seem to be ignoring that), yet I am telling you that your word use is EXTREMLY poor.

In the previous example, one would think they put in or removed something from the agreement.

"We modified the constitution." <-----Ammendments, anybody? No basis at all for thinking a suspension of the constitution.

"We wish to modify the embargo against your country." <-----That gives a contextual basis for allowing CERTAIN GOODS to be shipped. Technically, it could mean "We are suspending the embargo", but contextually there there is VERY little basis

You know, this may actually be why most American children can't even write to three grade levels below their current level......Because they know what words mean, but they can't seem to figure out that you can't go on word meanings alone but how they interact with each other.

Oh and typical russian for "not admitting being wrong"? Apparently YOU have never been to Moscow or St. Petersburg or Murmansk or Vladivostok......Russians everywhere say that Russia was wrong all during the cold war.

Americans however, don't

[Kuciwalker]

Agathon - in the long run, the US government IS the American people. The American people most assuredly aren't all conspiring to annex Cuba. Some of the current administration may be, but I find even that hard to swallow.