April 29, 2003, 09:17
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#31
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Settler
Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
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Anyway, since it is formed, we can leave the job to the Arabs 
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April 29, 2003, 09:33
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#32
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Settler
Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
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Actually the alliance backstepped on this one since it will not help union in Europe.
Things now are: Europe enjoys free defence from US which does all the paying, gets killed etc.
Meanwhile Europe has higher standard of living, less violence, universal health care etc etc.
A master- slave relationship with the US serving Europe and taking all the cost and all the slack. Of course it helps its US economy but not its people.
This will not change for the foreasble future.
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April 29, 2003, 09:34
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#33
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Settler
Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
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I think it's pretty smart myself
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April 29, 2003, 11:35
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#34
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King
Local Time: 20:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The 3rd best place to live in the USA.
Posts: 2,744
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Quote:
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Originally posted by paiktis22
About the Kings, yes unfortunately. now they're gone too.
but do you have democracy now? even without kings? (or health care for that matter and peaceful life)
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Democracy smarcracy, we're a federalist Republic, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Health Care? The Government completely covers my health care. 
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The Euro was deemed impossible but yet happened and it is stronger than the dollar now.
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Meh, stuff is still cheaper here in the states.
__________________
With such viral bias, you're opinion is thus rendered useless. -Shrapnel12, on my "bias" against the SS.
And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy!"
"Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I ****ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective." --Barack Obama
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April 29, 2003, 11:56
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#35
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Emperor
Local Time: 03:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 3,565
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The word "Kimono" comes from the Greek work "chimona", which means "winter".
What do you put on when it's cold? A robe!. So there you, Chimono-Robe-winter-Kimono.
__________________
Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb ! :doitnow!:
Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.
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April 29, 2003, 11:58
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#36
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Emperor
Local Time: 03:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 3,565
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And Greeks invented POTTERY! 
__________________
Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb ! :doitnow!:
Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.
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April 29, 2003, 12:37
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#37
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King
Local Time: 16:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
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Quote:
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Originally posted by paiktis22
I think it's pretty smart myself
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In a way it is smart because it maintains world peace. History has shown that military alliances, opposed to each other, more often than not, go to war. The only one that did not - at least overtly - was the Nato -- Warsaw Pact statndoff. However, the cold war was ugly for the world outside Europe, as we all know.
I was just thinking, is there any military alliance anywhere in the world, today, that is independent of the US?
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April 29, 2003, 12:44
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#38
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Deity
Local Time: 19:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Quote:
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Originally posted by dannubis
are you threathened by it ?
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Not really. I'm just curious how you can form a credible defense policy without British involvement.
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April 29, 2003, 12:48
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#39
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Deity
Local Time: 20:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the closet...
Posts: 10,604
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Quote:
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"The Bush administration has reacted angrily to suggestions that General Tommy Franks, the commander of the US-led war in Iraq, might be charged with war crimes.
A Belgian lawyer says he is preparing a case that could see General Franks charged under a law which allows the prosecution of non-Belgian citizens for war crimes. ..
"If this prosecution goes ahead, Bush administration officials are making it plain they will regard it as a major diplomatic incident - an example of political harassment."
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And Euros wonder why the US doesn't support the ICC. 
__________________
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April 29, 2003, 12:51
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#40
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
Local Time: 01:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 11,117
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
Not really. I'm just curious how you can form a credible defense policy without British involvement.
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Now I'm curious what the Britons have to do with the defense of France and Germany. The Germans alone have an army twice as big as the British, and they are eqipped with enough heavy weapons, tanks and mech infantry for a formidable defense. And although they may be not able to project this power (which is true without any doubt), this ability is completely irrelevant for defensive purposes.
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April 29, 2003, 12:52
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#41
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Ivory tower
Posts: 3,511
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He's been in Iraq for five minutes. What are going to be charged for? There's always a lawyer out there preparing a case for the most absurd things between heaven and the earth. doesn't mean that it has a chance in hell in a court room.
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
In GAIS we trust!
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April 29, 2003, 12:53
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#42
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King
Local Time: 16:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Why should the US even care? Lets pull all our troops out of bases around the world. Let Europe deal with their problems.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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April 29, 2003, 12:54
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#43
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
Local Time: 01:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 11,117
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Why should the US even care? Lets pull all our troops out of bases around the world. Let Europe deal with their problems.
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April 29, 2003, 12:57
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#44
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Deity
Local Time: 19:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Now I'm curious what the Britons have to do with the defense of France and Germany.
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That's not the topic of the summit. Nor is it the reason that Italy, Spain, and the Netherlands also expressed concern about the summit.
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April 29, 2003, 13:01
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#45
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Deity
Local Time: 20:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the closet...
Posts: 10,604
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Quote:
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doesn't mean that it has a chance in hell in a court room.
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They convicted Sharon, didn't they? You don't really need a case to convict someone of human rights violations in Belgium.
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April 29, 2003, 13:07
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#46
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King
Local Time: 01:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Empires were built by dictators, not democracies.
Posts: 2,869
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Quote:
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Originally posted by War of Art
Because one of the EU's largest millitary powers has no independance from the US??  If America says "Lets'have a war", do the Brits ever say no? How could Europe be a counter-balance to the US if they never stand up to its bullying?
-Jam
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On the other hand, why have an army when you're never going to use it just to spite the Americans ?
And please no independance from the US? we've been in twice as many fights and do alot more peacekeeping work in the world then them. They just grab the headlines because they're the major player when they do join in.
__________________
Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.
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April 29, 2003, 13:08
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#47
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Ivory tower
Posts: 3,511
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What planet do you live on? Has Sharon been convicted?!
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
In GAIS we trust!
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April 29, 2003, 13:11
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#48
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King
Local Time: 20:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The 3rd best place to live in the USA.
Posts: 2,744
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Saras
The word "Kimono" comes from the Greek work "chimona", which means "winter".
What do you put on when it's cold? A robe!. So there you, Chimono-Robe-winter-Kimono.
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Yeah, I saw that movie too.
slightly back on topic, I don't think we should vacate our military bases overseas unless the local governments make a formal request to leave. With already closed down a lot of bases overseas as it is.
__________________
With such viral bias, you're opinion is thus rendered useless. -Shrapnel12, on my "bias" against the SS.
And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy!"
"Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I ****ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective." --Barack Obama
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April 29, 2003, 13:13
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#49
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Deity
Local Time: 20:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the closet...
Posts: 10,604
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Quote:
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What planet do you live on? Has Sharon been convicted?!
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I know he can't go to Belgium for fear of arrest. If he hasn't been convicted of anything, that would just make the situation even more absurd. Should Tommy Franks or any other American general have to tailor their travel plans to avoid whatever European countries have a warrant out for their arrest on ludicrous war crimes charges?
The US might have signed on to the ICC if you Euros would treat war crimes as the rare and serious things they are, instead of as an excuse to score political points.
__________________
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April 29, 2003, 13:15
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#50
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Warlord
Local Time: 00:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 189
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Last I heard the Sharon trial fell through, despite the fact they had quite a case.
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April 29, 2003, 13:17
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#51
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Emperor
Local Time: 03:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
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Of course they did.
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April 29, 2003, 13:20
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#52
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Ivory tower
Posts: 3,511
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The US might have signed on to the ICC if you Euros would treat war crimes as the rare and serious things they are, instead of as an excuse to score political points.
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"You euros"? Are talking about me? Get you grip together, I just agreed that the idea to convict Franks for war crimes seems absurd a few posts ago. I have no desire for the ICC to score political points. I'm not the one 'inventing' convictions to score political points.
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
In GAIS we trust!
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April 29, 2003, 13:38
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#53
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Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
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The problem with the Belgian system is that pretty much anybody can fill a case, even if this case will be ruled out by the court eventually.
I seem to remember there was a case against Pinochet. I wonder if there are cases about the dictators of the world, but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm almost sure many political dissidents in exile in Belgium try to make a case against their oppressors.
The only cases that we hear about are those against persona grata in the west. It doesn't necessarily mean all cases are against them.
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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April 29, 2003, 13:40
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#54
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Deity
Local Time: 19:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Damn you Drake! How the hell did you get Sharon from this thread without any stops in between? 
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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April 29, 2003, 13:43
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#55
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:23
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Ivory tower
Posts: 3,511
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Spiffor: Actually I think there's something about a former dictator of Chad also being prosecuted. I think I read that about the same time as the belgian court decided that Sharon could be prosecuted without being present in the country himself. This would also apply for the Chad dictator. For obvious reasons that didn't get any real attention. It's not just americans that have problems finding Chad on a world map...
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
In GAIS we trust!
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April 29, 2003, 14:14
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#56
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King
Local Time: 16:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
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If the ICC indicts Franks, I think the first thing he ought to do is fly to Netherlands for dinner.
Then let's see if the brave Dutch want to arrest Franks.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
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April 29, 2003, 14:20
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#57
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Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
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AFAIK, the ICC cannot indict Franks. The US are not part of the ICC, so it cannot condemn any of its citizens I think.
The case we are talking about is pure Belgian, and not international in any form.
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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April 29, 2003, 14:23
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#58
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King
Local Time: 16:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
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Then he should have dinner in Belgium.
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http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
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April 29, 2003, 14:28
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#59
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Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
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I highly doubt the Belgian justice will give following to the case anyway.
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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April 29, 2003, 14:48
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#60
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King
Local Time: 02:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Posts: 2,647
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Spiffor
The problem with the Belgian system is that pretty much anybody can fill a case, even if this case will be ruled out by the court eventually.
I seem to remember there was a case against Pinochet. I wonder if there are cases about the dictators of the world, but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm almost sure many political dissidents in exile in Belgium try to make a case against their oppressors.
The only cases that we hear about are those against persona grata in the west. It doesn't necessarily mean all cases are against them.
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There are numerous cases, but you don't know about those, only Sharon cases or Tommy Franks cases get the media..
__________________
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