Thread Tools
Old April 30, 2003, 16:56   #151
Az
Emperor
 
Local Time: 03:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
what? who? when?
__________________
urgh.NSFW
Az is offline  
Old April 30, 2003, 17:27   #152
Ned
King
 
Ned's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
Pekka, et al., clearly we need a meeting -- of the United States, NATO members and members of the EU. We need to discuss the future and whether we should cooperate in areas of foreign-policy and military affairs; and if we intend to cooperate, how we should do so.

What I see more than anything else is that Europe would like to have a voice in US foreign-policy. Clearly the United States understands that we must consult our European friends if they are to be on board as a part of any coalition. We need to formalize this relationship in some treaty organization that replaces NATO.

As Pekka said, the right to vote in such an arrangement also entails the obligation to militarily support decisions of the organization. I don't see this coalition as being purely defensive. It should be able to take action offensively if necessary. Kosovo and Iraq provide recent examples wide this is necessary.

In some respects, this new coalition will simply replace the United Nations Security Council under circumstances where the UNSC fails to act to remedy a violation of international law. As we have seen, the UN is feckless and effete and will never enforce its resolutions.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
Ned is offline  
Old April 30, 2003, 17:30   #153
Ned
King
 
Ned's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:23
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
Obviously, we should invite all democratic countries of the world to be part of the coalition. So, I would include Japan, South Korea and Australia as well in the new coalition.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
Ned is offline  
Old April 30, 2003, 17:49   #154
Pekka
Emperor
 
Pekka's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:23
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Xrr ZRRRRRRR!!
Posts: 6,484
I find it interesting that Chirac and Schroeder are trying to be in a position, where they can trash NATO decision and torpedo things in UN with vetos, and after that, they'd have the only 'working' alliance, since there would be no US there to veto or tell them what to do. I find this very funny.

So what would we gain from this? We'd get to maybe fight, but we woudln't me our own masters. As a small country, we can't afford to be tossed around by others. This is what we have learned and done.

I find it amusing, that one of the main reasons Chirac helped Saddam in the first place was to celebrate independence from the US, his big dream.. no big brother.. just Europe.. just Chirac himself. He isn't fooling anyone, his past is too known and his arrogance seen.

Clearly the model won't work and will only bring frustration. Future will tell us if they are seriously pushing it. But it only makes our relations worse, as we are not going to be part of it and won't be intimitated by them.
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
Pekka is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 20:23.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team