What separates a Mac from a PC? - Page 4

Agathon · May 4, 2003, 18:59

Asher's new avatar:

Panag · May 4, 2003, 19:02

hi ,

mouse products > www.kensington.com , .....

ugly one button , .... pfffff , ... right

have a nice day

Agathon · May 4, 2003, 19:06

And you only need to look on Google to see the love that MS customers (excluding Asher) have for Mr Gates. Of course none of it us fit to print here.

Willem · May 4, 2003, 19:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
And you only need to look on Google to see the love that MS customers (excluding Asher) have for Mr Gates. Of course none of it us fit to print here.

With something like 10% market share, I'd hardly say the world has a love affair with Apple either.

Agathon · May 4, 2003, 19:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

With something like 10% market share, I'd hardly say the world has a love affair with Apple either.

They don't compete in many niche markets. But I haven't seen pages devoted to killing Steve Jobs (although Gates is a nicer guy than him).

Most of the anti-Apple complaints are about money for upgrades.

Drake Tungsten · May 4, 2003, 19:16

You never hear the people who buy Macs ***** about them now, do you?

Willem · May 4, 2003, 19:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon

They don't compete in many niche markets. But I haven't seen pages devoted to killing Steve Jobs (although Gates is a nicer guy than him).

Most of the anti-Apple complaints are about money for upgrades.

If the situation were reversed and Apple was top dog, you'd probably hear just as many people ***** about Job that you now do with Gates. What about all the millions of people who could care less about Microsoft and are more or less satisfied with their systems? You're basing your judgement solely on a vocal minority.

Agathon · May 4, 2003, 19:30

Very vocal...

Imran Siddiqui · May 4, 2003, 19:32

Because they are deluded and have to be to justify being apart from the rest of the computer world. It's like communists

. Kidding, kidding.

I have no problem with people who want to use Macs, but I do have them with people that try to 'convert' the 'wrong' PC users to the light. I've used a PC and Mac, and I'll take a PC anyday. I like to upgrade my hardware and XP is just as stable and easy to use as any OS Apple has put out.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 19:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
I hate macs. Unstable, badly designed, need a ****ing degree to do simple power-user tasks (installing a font, for instance, takes like half an hour of faffing about cross-copying files between folders), bad networking influence, uneconomical, resource-hogging, ugly, one-button mice, overheat really easily, intrusive, feature-bloated (talking error messages? ffs.), expensive, software-deficient, and totally, totally naff. I don't think I've ever seen a set of computers so constantly problematic as the iMacs my student newspaper uses.

hi ,

input defines output , wheter on a pc or mac , .....

are the updates done , is there conflicting software , .... etc , .....

why is it that more and more schools , univ and high schools are buying macs then , .....

how many laptops are around with a 17 inch screen , .... > of the shelf civilian use , ...

how many of the shelf civilian pc' are around with a 10/100/1000 ethernet card for networking , .....

and if a mac would be so bad , then why is the G4 chip export restricted , ....

not to mention of the 23 inch display , .....

or ipod , ....

you should visit www.apple.com ones , you might like it

there is no problem whatsoever to let a mac and a windows system exchange files , ....

unstable , ... well most mac's are to be used in the indutrial / medical / military / scientific areas where a chrash free program is needed , ... in each windows OS the user agreement says its not to be used for that , .....

have a nice day

Imran Siddiqui · May 4, 2003, 19:36

Quote:

But I haven't seen pages devoted to killing Steve Jobs

There was definete hatred for Jobs in the early 80s. Apple wasn't as big as Microsoft is now, but you couldn't say he was liked.

Willem · May 4, 2003, 19:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
Very vocal...

A great deal of the animosity towards Gates has more to do with his business practises than the products themselves. It's no secret that he's been a ruthless bastard, and most people don't like bullies.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 19:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

A great deal of the animosity towards Gates has more to do with his business practises than the products themselves. It's no secret that he's been a ruthless bastard, and most people don't like bullies.

hi ,

yeah but it has to be mentioned that he alone personnaly gives more money to aids and hiv research then the entire us gov , .....

not to mention all the other scientifical and medical causes he gives money to , ....

have a nice day

Willem · May 4, 2003, 19:43

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

yeah but it has to be mentioned that he alone personnaly gives more money to aids and hiv research then the entire us gov , .....

not to mention all the other scientifical and medical causes he gives money to , ....

have a nice day

Yes, but that's only been a recent thing, and I suspect that some of that has to do with him trying to clean up the company's image after the anti-trust actions. A PR job in other words.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 19:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Yes, but that's only been a recent thing, and I suspect that some of that has to do with him trying to clean up the company's image after the anti-trust actions. A PR job in other words.

hi ,

huh , he passed the us gov's budget on aids in 97 , ...

not to mention all the comps he gave for free to gene and cancer research , ......

mac has done the same but on a lesser scale , .... they also make far less turnover therefore they can donate less , ....

apple tends to donate comps and computer technicians time , ....

have a nice day

Asher · May 4, 2003, 20:01

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
unstable , ... well most mac's are to be used in the indutrial / medical / military / scientific areas where a chrash free program is needed , ... in each windows OS the user agreement says its not to be used for that , .....

This is complete and utter nonsense.

Macs are used in University social science programs, artsy stuff (journalism, some content creation, etc), and by home users that like pretty things.

Macs are not in use widely in "industrial", nor "medixal", nor "military", nor "scientific".

The US Nuclear Carrier fleet runs off of modified versions of Windows 2000 Datacenter, and Windows Server 2003 and Windows 2000 run on far more servers and workstations than OS X. In fact, OS X Server was basically a total dud.

If you're doing industrial/medical/military/scientific, you use a Unix, Linux, or Windows NT variant. You certainly do not use MacOS.

Have a nice day

Imran Siddiqui · May 4, 2003, 20:14

But isn't OS X based on unix, Asher?

Panag · May 4, 2003, 20:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

This is complete and utter nonsense.

Macs are used in University social science programs, artsy stuff (journalism, some content creation, etc), and by home users that like pretty things.

Macs are not in use widely in "industrial", nor "medixal", nor "military", nor "scientific".

The US Nuclear Carrier fleet runs off of modified versions of Windows 2000 Datacenter, and Windows Server 2003 and Windows 2000 run on far more servers and workstations than OS X. In fact, OS X Server was basically a total dud.

If you're doing industrial/medical/military/scientific, you use a Unix, Linux, or Windows NT variant. You certainly do not use MacOS.

Have a nice day

hi ,

check your license agreement , .....

check the mac pages , ..... the national weather service uses macs , ...

the uss cvn nimitz has its wingops , reactor software , com and a whole bunch of other systems running on , ...... apple , ....

not to mention of all the officers who walk now on the flightdeck with a 17 inch laptop

have a nice day

Buck Birdseed · May 4, 2003, 20:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
I've had one kernel panic in 3 years. Massive instability there.

I've yet to work more than 12 hours straight on a mac without a single crash.

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Laughable from someone with a beige box on his desk.

All good design starts with function. That the atrociously unupgradable, difficult-to-carry, constantly overheating iMac ever got on the market is a ****ing marketing miracle.

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Installing a font requires you to drop it in one of the "fonts" folders (either your personal one or the system font folder).

And one in some sort of printer font folder. You also have to set up Acrobat Distiller and Quark separately. We had Mac experts spend days figuring out why (a) the fonts didn't show up correctly on screen in Quark, even though they were listed as available, and (b) why some fonts came out as entirely different fonts during PDF generation. In the end the problem was only solved when a man from our printer came and fixed it for us, and he pretty much told us that we should never install some fonts on Macs because they're "unreliable".

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I networked a mac the other week in about 10 seconds. No problems at all.

Which is what it usually does for us too. Except, when it doesn't, there's no bloody way to find out why

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The TOC of macs is very competitive. They tend in my experience to last a lot longer than PCs.

The essential structural components of my PC are from 1995. This is because it's "upgradable", unlike a mac.

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Not once.

Try running one for 36 hours straight and laugh with joy as, when you're less than an hour from going to print, the aluminium bit around the monitor starts to glow and it crashes half a dozen times in a row before startup.

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Yeah the imac is hugely intrusive.

Immensely. It constantly looks over the network without your permission, I have no doubt it sends stuff "silently" to apple central as well.

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You can turn this off. It's supposed to be for people with disabilities.

What about the fancy graphical bollocks? That XP's got it too is no excuse.

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TOC is competitive

Bollocks. We've got an iMac from the last production run of the first gen, ie. about a year and a half old, and it can't even run the web properly let alone more than half a dozen apps at once. The other ones (3-4 years old) can't even run Photoshop and Quark at the same time! And they just crash, randomly, if you try! This coupled with the frankly idiotic "closing the window doesn't close the app" thing makes it hell for the newbies, although I've learnt to control it now.

Quote:

Let me guess, they are running system 9 or earlier?

Yes. Mind you, OSX Wouldn't install on 3 of our four macs, and ran crap on the last, so we decided against it. Whereas on the PC, You've got a whole series of relatively stable OSses to chose from... A PC the age of these macs and the same price (ie. much higher specced) would run 98SE very nicely, an OS which doesn't just crash out randomly when you try to open a picture in the wrong format.

*End Is Forever* · May 4, 2003, 20:30

*applause*

Panag · May 4, 2003, 20:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed

I've yet to work more than 12 hours straight on a mac without a single crash.

All good design starts with function. That the atrociously unupgradable, difficult-to-carry, constantly overheating iMac ever got on the market is a ****ing marketing miracle.

Quote:

Installing a font requires you to drop it in one of the "fonts" folders (either your personal one or the system font folder).

And one in some sort of printer font folder. You also have to set up Acrobat Distiller and Quark separately. We had Mac experts spend days figuring out why (a) the fonts didn't show up correctly on screen in Quark, even though they were listed as available, and (b) why some fonts came out as entirely different fonts during PDF generation. In the end the problem was only solved when a man from our printer came and fixed it for us, and he pretty much told us that we should never install some fonts on Macs because they're "unreliable".

Quote:

I networked a mac the other week in about 10 seconds. No problems at all.

Which is what it usually does for us too. Except, when it doesn't, there's no bloody way to find out why

Quote:

The TOC of macs is very competitive. They tend in my experience to last a lot longer than PCs.

The essential structural components of my PC are from 1995. This is because it's "upgradable", unlike a mac.

Quote:

Not once.

Try running one for 36 hours straight and laugh with joy as, when you're less than an hour from going to print, the aluminium bit around the monitor starts to glow and it crashes half a dozen times in a row before startup.

Quote:

Yeah the imac is hugely intrusive.

Immensely. It constantly looks over the network without your permission, I have no doubt it sends stuff "silently" to apple central as well.

Quote:

You can turn this off. It's supposed to be for people with disabilities.

What about the fancy graphical bollocks? That XP's got it too is no excuse.

Quote:

TOC is competitive

Bollocks. We've got an iMac from the last production run of the first gen, ie. about a year and a half old, and it can't even run the web properly let alone more than half a dozen apps at once. The other ones (3-4 years old) can't even run Photoshop and Quark at the same time! And they just crash, randomly, if you try! This coupled with the frankly idiotic "closing the window doesn't close the app" thing makes it hell for the newbies, although I've learnt to control it now.

Yes. Mind you, OSX Wouldn't install on 3 of our four macs, and ran crap on the last, so we decided against it. Whereas on the PC, You've got a whole series of relatively stable OSses to chose from... A PC the age of these macs and the same price (ie. much higher specced) would run 98SE very nicely, an OS which doesn't just crash out randomly when you try to open a picture in the wrong format.

hi ,

since you seem to have problems other mac users dont have , have you talked with the person who sold it to ya , .....

ones again , "input defines output " , ....

have a nice day

Asher · May 4, 2003, 20:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
But isn't OS X based on unix, Asher?

The kernel it uses is from an ancient version of BSD.

Apple's added a bunch of stuff though which drastically reduced stability.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 20:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

The kernel it uses is from an ancient version of BSD.

Apple's added a bunch of stuff though which drastically reduced stability.

hi ,

yeah right , ....

my own older mac was on for four years in a row without a singel crash , .....

the new one has not had a problem neither , nor has the old or new portable , ......

have a nice day

Panag · May 4, 2003, 20:44

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

yeah right , ....

my own older mac was on for four years in a row without a singel crash , .....

the new one has not had a problem neither , nor has the old or new portable , ......

have a nice day

and since when cant you upgrade a mac , .....

panag opens his older cube and looks at all the upgrades he done over the years , .....

Imran Siddiqui · May 4, 2003, 20:45

Come on! You can't say that a mac is anywhere NEAR as upgradable as a PC.

Asher · May 4, 2003, 20:48

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

check your license agreement , .....

License agreements exist to protect from legal minefields, and I can't believe you're using this in a debate.

Quote:

check the mac pages , ..... the national weather service uses macs , ...

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/...w.nws.noaa.gov

Quote:

The site www.nws.noaa.gov is running Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) (Red-Hat/Linux) DAV/1.0.3 PHP/4.1.2 mod_perl/1.26 on Linux

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the uss cvn nimitz has its wingops , reactor software , com and a whole bunch of other systems running on , ...... apple , ....

Source?

Asher · May 4, 2003, 20:50

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

yeah right , ....

my own older mac was on for four years in a row without a singel crash , .....

the new one has not had a problem neither , nor has the old or new portable , ......

have a nice day

Well, I suppose you're lucky then.

I've used OS X quite a lot on a friend's iBook.

Quake 2 locks it up quite a lot. We also had a hard reboot when trying to locate the school's 802.11 network, too.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 20:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Come on! You can't say that a mac is anywhere NEAR as upgradable as a PC.

hi ,

ever seen a comp that opens like a briefcase just to do that , ..... now thats customer friendly , ....

have a nice day

clear signs for it ;

Twin engines
Dual PowerPC G4 processors — up to 1.42GHz — have 2MB of L3 cache for the ultimate in performance and productivity, delivering up to 21 gigaflops of power.

Connectivity
FireWire 800 & 400, optional AirPort Extreme, optional built-in Bluetooth module, built-in Gigabit Ethernet, audio in/out, and USB provide easy connectivity to high-speed networks and professional devices.

DDR SDRAM
Up to 2GB of DDR SDRAM for up to 2.7GBps of memory throughput

******Built to grow*******
The Power Mac G4 is designed for massive expandability, supporting up to four internal hard disks.

Use the four high-performance PCI slots to add video, audio, SCSI, and other specialized capabilities.

The dual 1.42GHz model comes with a SuperDrive (optional on other models), and all models have space for a second optical drive.

Dual digital displays
Your choice of ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, ATI Radeon 9000 Pro, NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium or NVIDIA GeForce4 MX graphics engines, accelerate stunning graphics across two all-digital flat panel displays.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 20:53

hi ,

nice open view , ....

have a nice night

Drake Tungsten · May 4, 2003, 20:55

OS X has only crashed once on me in the time since it came out and that crash was when I was using the beta. It's extremely stable.