View Poll Results: American people mostly right or left?
I'm American and I think the country is more rightist. 19 26.76%
I'm American and I think the country is more leftist 3 4.23%
I'm American and the country is centrist. 13 18.31%
I'm not American and the US is leftist. 0 0%
I'm not American and the US is rightist. 29 40.85%
I'm not American and the US is centrist. 5 7.04%
Banana 2 2.82%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
Old May 12, 2003, 03:34   #1
Lancer
Civilization III MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Deity
 
Lancer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
Are the American people predominantly right wing or left?
The US just took Iraq, in some polls 70% of the people approved of the action. Mostly it was the left that opposed. On the other side, Gore won the popular vote, slim margin, but still.

So, which are we?
__________________
I'm not profane, I type the stars.
Lancer is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 03:44   #2
Jaguar
C4DG Sarantium
Emperor
 
Jaguar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 4,790
We're right. We have Republican majorities everywhere, and even our democrats are further right than most Euros.
__________________
"You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005
Jaguar is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:02   #3
Dis
ACDG3 SpartansC4DG Vox
Deity
 
Dis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
Well before this Iraq situation and 9/11 I always felt people were more leftist. If they weren't leftist they had no problem electing leftists.

It is possible that after 9/11 there has been a political shift in the U.S., which I think may be true. As 9/11 has shifted my political views as well. I was a leftist before 9/11. Perhaps if we ever get another strong leftist leader I will become one again. But right now their leadership is very weak.

I also felt that after the election debacle in 2000 that we would not have a republican president for at least 12 years. I am certain I was wrong about that. In fact we may not have a democratic president for 10 years. Bush's first 8 months in office were looking pretty weak...Although his domestic policy is still fairly weak...we'll see

But it seemed obvious to me people support social programs. although perhaps the shift occurred earlier in the 90's with welfare reform. Those stories of welfare corruption in the 90's sure got my attention- and disgusted me.
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
Dis is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:04   #4
Lancer
Civilization III MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Deity
 
Lancer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
JW, the euros being left of our left is one of the things I'm looking for here. If the euros think we are a bunch of right wing wackos, all of us both left and right, then what an amazing phenomina. If true, how the heck did the situation come about?
__________________
I'm not profane, I type the stars.
Lancer is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:07   #5
Dis
ACDG3 SpartansC4DG Vox
Deity
 
Dis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
because the europeans became more leftists.

american democrats have had to shift their policies to be more moderate to get elected. But the republicans have had to do the same thing. They don't dare cut social programs in order to get re-elected. Hence why they run up a huge debt.
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
Dis is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:13   #6
Jaguar
C4DG Sarantium
Emperor
 
Jaguar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 4,790
Quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
JW, the euros being left of our left is one of the things I'm looking for here. If the euros think we are a bunch of right wing wackos, all of us both left and right, then what an amazing phenomina. If true, how the heck did the situation come about?
World War II, in a nutshell.

1. Here in America, us middle class and above people feel we're pretty stable. We don't really believe something bad will ever make us homeless or anything. Hence we don't believe we'll need the governments help, so we don't want to give our money to the government. In Europe, people who had felt that they were "safe" suddenly got displaced from their homes by the millions when the war started.

2. World War II wreaked havoc on the great cities of Europe. Not a single bomb touched the contiguous 48 US states, which made up over 99% of the total American population during WWII. This is why Europeans are more afraid of war.

3. We have never experienced a truly awful right wing government anywhere close to home. Europe has had several. Hence they're likely to shy away from rightist views that remind them of the 20th century fascists. Meanwhile, our biggest fear for most of the past century has been evil left wing governments. We're likely to shy away from things that remind us of the evil Soviets.
__________________
"You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005
Jaguar is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:15   #7
Stefu
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Stefu's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: CLOWNS WIT DA DOWNS 4 LIFE YO!
Posts: 5,301
Rightist, of course.
__________________
"Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
"That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world
Stefu is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:16   #8
Urban Ranger
NationStatesApolyton Storywriters' GuildNever Ending Stories
Deity
 
Urban Ranger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
Center-right, on the US scale. Right, on the international scale.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
Urban Ranger is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:18   #9
Lancer
Civilization III MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Deity
 
Lancer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
Dissident, this is a rich country, jobs are everywhere. Handing out money here is just absurd.

I agree that 9/11 changed things. However Clinton COULD have led a war against terrorism, SHOULD have led a war against terrorism, but didn't. People don't forgive weakness in a president. Now, with Bush, we're catching and killing the terrorists that attacked us during the Clinton years. That's not lost on people. Except here at Poly where there are so many leftists, most of America is damn glad we have a president that doesn't blink. We're tired of taking it and want to dish it out now. That's why we'll see repubs in charge for a while. If Bush had wimped out like Clinton, the US would be in very sad shape right now. The most powerful powerless country in the world. BUT! The fight is on, the right is leading it, and likely will be for quite a while.

Long winded, but basicly I agree w/ you.
__________________
I'm not profane, I type the stars.
Lancer is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:23   #10
Lancer
Civilization III MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Deity
 
Lancer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
JW, good points. They should have been impacted by the Soviets as well. However I was there, and they really just ignored them. Totally irresponsible! The US held the line for them. I'd be embarrassed.

Btw, 2 Japanese balloon bombs landed in Oregon. We're still recovering from that.
__________________
I'm not profane, I type the stars.
Lancer is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:26   #11
Jaguar
C4DG Sarantium
Emperor
 
Jaguar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 4,790
You don't wanna mess with the balloon bomb.
__________________
"You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005
Jaguar is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:27   #12
Lancer
Civilization III MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Deity
 
Lancer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
Bizarre form of warfare!
__________________
I'm not profane, I type the stars.
Lancer is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:29   #13
Dis
ACDG3 SpartansC4DG Vox
Deity
 
Dis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
I agree with your post for the most part. But it is tough to say what Clinton would have done after 9/11. Remember Bush did nothing to address the terrorist problem for the first 8 months of his presidency. And that wasn't long after the Cole bombing. But I just can't see Clinton taking part in the overthrow of the Taliban. I would expect him to have made a more diplomatic effort combined with precision strikes.
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
Dis is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:31   #14
Lancer
Civilization III MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Deity
 
Lancer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
Yeah, like SK. Very diplomatic, totally useless.
__________________
I'm not profane, I type the stars.
Lancer is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:38   #15
MikeH
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-League
OTF Moderator
 
MikeH's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ming on rakastajani
Posts: 7,511
Quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior

World War II, in a nutshell.

1. Here in America, us middle class and above people feel we're pretty stable. We don't really believe something bad will ever make us homeless or anything. Hence we don't believe we'll need the governments help, so we don't want to give our money to the government. In Europe, people who had felt that they were "safe" suddenly got displaced from their homes by the millions when the war started.

2. World War II wreaked havoc on the great cities of Europe. Not a single bomb touched the contiguous 48 US states, which made up over 99% of the total American population during WWII. This is why Europeans are more afraid of war.

3. We have never experienced a truly awful right wing government anywhere close to home. Europe has had several. Hence they're likely to shy away from rightist views that remind them of the 20th century fascists. Meanwhile, our biggest fear for most of the past century has been evil left wing governments. We're likely to shy away from things that remind us of the evil Soviets.
Good post.
__________________
Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth

We've got both kinds
MikeH is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 04:54   #16
Straybow
Civilization II Succession GamesSpanish CiversPtWDG2 TabemonoAlpha Centauri Democracy GameNationStatesGalCiv Apolyton EmpireTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersCivilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
Straybow's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: LF & SG(2)... still here in our hearts
Posts: 6,230
In the US we don't have "real" right wing or left wing politics. Except maybe McCarthy. Our leftists are tame, too. US (and British) conservatives are cut from a different cloth from the Continentals.

Right wing and left wing were originally designated in revolutionary France. The right-wingers were just as devoted to Robespierre, et al., as the leftists and center, but they were not in favor of lopping off the heads of those who were guilty only by association.
__________________
(\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
(='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
(")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)
Straybow is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 05:01   #17
Lancer
Civilization III MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FamePolyCast TeamC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Deity
 
Lancer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
Straybow, that's true. People like to get worked up but we're all fairly civilized.



Balloon bomb pic:

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/es...I/LTA10G10.htm

Balloon bomb story:

http://www.bootsnall.com/cgi-bin/gt/...riverton.shtml

Japan under ATTACK from bio weapon balloons from NK! My what you find when you search...

http://www.weeklypost.com/021118/021118a.htm
__________________
I'm not profane, I type the stars.
Lancer is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 05:12   #18
MikeH
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-League
OTF Moderator
 
MikeH's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ming on rakastajani
Posts: 7,511
BTW the words "Leftist" and "Rightist" really annoy me. Never heard them anywhere other than from US posters on the internet. I don't normally mind Americanisms too much but those words just sound stupid.
__________________
Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth

We've got both kinds
MikeH is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 05:47   #19
Straybow
Civilization II Succession GamesSpanish CiversPtWDG2 TabemonoAlpha Centauri Democracy GameNationStatesGalCiv Apolyton EmpireTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersCivilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
Straybow's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: LF & SG(2)... still here in our hearts
Posts: 6,230
ACW was as horrific as any of the wars in Europe, with a million dead and wounded out of a population of 33 million. Kansas and Missouri suffered the kind of stuff recently seen in former Yugoslavia, with overflow into surrounding states. Economic devastation in the South. We didn't turn pacifist.
__________________
(\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
(='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
(")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)
Straybow is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 05:50   #20
Straybow
Civilization II Succession GamesSpanish CiversPtWDG2 TabemonoAlpha Centauri Democracy GameNationStatesGalCiv Apolyton EmpireTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersCivilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
Straybow's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: LF & SG(2)... still here in our hearts
Posts: 6,230
Quote:
BTW the words "Leftist" and "Rightist" really annoy me. Never heard them anywhere other than from US posters on the internet.
They do get thrown around a bit much, and have been so diluted with the overuse…
__________________
(\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
(='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
(")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)
Straybow is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 06:01   #21
MikeH
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-League
OTF Moderator
 
MikeH's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ming on rakastajani
Posts: 7,511
The estimated total casualties for Europe in WWII is about 40,000,000. 7 million in Germany (half of them civilian), another 7 million in Poland and 20 odd million in Russia. That came 20 years after the 10 million casualties of WWI.

Two huge wars and 2 generations of young men decimated in one lifetime had a huge effect.
__________________
Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth

We've got both kinds
MikeH is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 06:02   #22
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
Quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
ACW was as horrific as any of the wars in Europe, with a million dead and wounded out of a population of 33 million. Kansas and Missouri suffered the kind of stuff recently seen in former Yugoslavia, with overflow into surrounding states. Economic devastation in the South. We didn't turn pacifist.
1 war does not change people perceptions. It was also a different era, people did what they were told and if that meant fighting thats what happened. Vietnam caused the US to be vary wary of foerign engagements and IIRC the amount of US casulaties in that conflict were about the same as the allied casualties ont he 1st day of the Somme.

There was then another war following WW1 20 years later, this makes people a little wary of conflict.

In any event europe by any definaition is not pacifist.
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 06:05   #23
MikeH
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-League
OTF Moderator
 
MikeH's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ming on rakastajani
Posts: 7,511
Quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
Quote:
BTW the words "Leftist" and "Rightist" really annoy me. Never heard them anywhere other than from US posters on the internet.
They do get thrown around a bit much, and have been so diluted with the overuse…
What I don't like about them is that they seek to define a person into one of two (maybe three if you include centrist) bands. Which is a totally oversimplistic and unrealistic representation of the political spectrum. It seems to be the same with US style useage of "Liberal" and "Conservative".

In the UK it's much, much rarer to seek to use one word to define someone's beliefs. It seems very strange to a non American and I think it sometimes hampers debates. People make too many assumptions about other people based on one word. If someone describes themselves as a Liberal or whatever people leap to all kinds of conclusions about what they must believe and sometimes seem to not actually read what the indiviual themselves is saying.
__________________
Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth

We've got both kinds
MikeH is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 06:39   #24
Winston
Emperor
 
Local Time: 03:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 6,291
Tough one.

On some issues, I'd say the US takes a relatively conservative stand, while on others, they're clearly progressive...

I gotta go with centrist overall, but it's really more like I can't tell/undecided/other/banana.

Winston is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 06:44   #25
alva
Civilization III PBEMPtWDG2 Cake or Death?PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
alva's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
A relative conservative stance???

Looks Like I choose the most populair of the non-american options.
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
alva is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 06:49   #26
Frankychan
ACDG The Human HiveAlpha Centauri Democracy GameNationStatesAlpha Centauri PBEMApolyton Storywriters' Guild
King
 
Frankychan's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Back in Hawaii... (CPA Member)
Posts: 2,612
I think things are more complex than just stereotyping America as either "leftist" or "right-wing". It's like saying all of Europe is arrogant just cause the French (supposedly) are.

I think the political axis changes from region to region...the South would most likely be heavy right while the West Coast probably is left. Even political conceptions such as socialism differ between Europe and the US. Being a "socialist" in the US carries a negative stigma that most people wouldn't like to admit.
__________________
Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
*****Citizen of the Hive****
"...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis
Frankychan is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 08:43   #27
St Leo
Scenario League / Civ2-CreationApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
St Leo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
Quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
However Clinton COULD have led a war against terrorism, SHOULD have led a war against terrorism, but didn't.
How can you possibly have a war against terrorism?
__________________
Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com
St Leo is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 08:50   #28
MikeH
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-League
OTF Moderator
 
MikeH's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ming on rakastajani
Posts: 7,511
It's nearly as ridiculous as a war against drugs.
__________________
Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth

We've got both kinds
MikeH is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 09:06   #29
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:17
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
I guess we just like to declare war on things.

Clealry, the US is "right" of Europe on most issues (all?). I think Jaguar Warrior's post goes a long way toward explaining why.

But the right/left distinction is just way too simplified. Especially when you're talking about the political opinions of hundreds of millions of people.

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old May 12, 2003, 09:16   #30
Dauphin
Civilization IV PBEMPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Dauphin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:17
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
Quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
I guess we just like to declare war on things.
Except countries, which you invade or attack without a declaration.
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
Dauphin is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 21:17.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team