Research discussion

[moomin]

Affirmative!

[AdamTG02]

We will research Ethical Calculus next year. The first post has been updated with the potential options we may be presented with. Of those options, which should we prioritize? What should be our second and third choices, in case our first choice isn't available?

[Archaic]

I'd suggest Gene Splicing as our primary, given that Doc. Flex. could potentially be traded.

[AdamTG02]

Agreed on Gene Splicing. Not only does it allow us to farm efficiently in rainy areas, but if applied to ecological engineering, it could help us utilize the full potential of those tempting boreholes...

For our second choice, DocFlex is a possibility. PEACE doesn't seem too willing to trade it, so any trade would likely be grossly unfair to us in any case. The only problem I would have with researching it is that the Pirates might then begin to look on us as a rival.

If we need a third choice, how about Progenitor Psych? It may not be much on its own, but it leads to both Field Modulation's enhanced defenses against mindworms (Trance 3-Res Sentinels, anyone?) and Adaptive Economic's Planetary Energy Grid -- one of the more useful SMACX Secret Projects in my opinion, particularly for those, like us, running Free Market.

The floor remains open to any with other ideas or thoughts.

[Minute Mirage]

So what are we going to research after Gene Splicing? Ecological Engineering sounds really nice considering the borehole cluster. The biggest benefit about Doctrine: Flexibility at the moment in my opinion is the possibility of meeting other factions and being able to trade with them. However, we are really lucky to already have the Unity Foil to do some exploring for us, so D:F isn't absolutely vital. Thus, my first choise would be Ecological Engineering.

[AdamTG02]

Makes sense, Minute Mirage. Ideally, I think we would beeline to Environmental Economics, to take full advantage of those boreholes. After that, I'm less clear on what our best choice is, but Flexibility is certainly up there. It might be nice to go for Centauri Empathy after EE, for RP purposes, but role-playing hasn't played a large part in our tech decisions so far, and the lack of the Empath Guild makes that tech decidedly less appetizing from a stretegic perspective.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by AdamTG02
Makes sense, Minute Mirage. Ideally, I think we would beeline to Environmental Economics, to take full advantage of those boreholes. After that, I'm less clear on what our best choice is, but Flexibility is certainly up there. It might be nice to go for Centauri Empathy after EE, for RP purposes, but role-playing hasn't played a large part in our tech decisions so far, and the lack of the Empath Guild makes that tech decidedly less appetizing from a stretegic perspective.

Environmental Economics does sound tempting, again because we have those three boreholes already in place, meaning that we would get an additional 12 raw energy per turn just by lifting the restrictions. When we take into account the other places where we lose energy to restrictions (monoliths, forests on rivers), we should gain altogether at least 17 more raw energy per turn, assuming we start working those boreholes. This might also increase our commerce income in the borehole bases, so our total gain could be something like 20 raw energy per turn.

What after Env. Economics, if we should go for that? Now I'm inclined for Doctrine: Flexibility, if we haven't been able to trade for it then (and the Pirates don't seem like parting with it). D:F not only gives us a chance to really start exploring the world around us, but is also on the beeline to Doctrine: Airpower.

Speaking of beelines, which is more important for us: Doctrine: Air Power and Mind Machine Interface, or Bio-Engineering for clean reactors?

[AdamTG02]

Of the two, I'm more attracted to MMI. Thinkers are rather nice for us, as they play off our greatest strength (research) while helping mitigate our greatest weakness (drone problems).

That said, one beeline we shouldn't ignore is Fusion Power, which makes the double-abilities we would get on the prior beeline practical.

In my mind, we can wait for clean reactors, as we likely won't need a large army until the midgame. Clean formers might be nice, but I don't have enough experience using them to know how useful they'd really be.

As always, comments and corrections from players more experienced than I are welcome.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by AdamTG02
Of the two, I'm more attracted to MMI. Thinkers are rather nice for us, as they play off our greatest strength (research) while helping mitigate our greatest weakness (drone problems).

That said, one beeline we shouldn't ignore is Fusion Power, which makes the double-abilities we would get on the prior beeline practical.

In my mind, we can wait for clean reactors, as we likely won't need a large army until the midgame. Clean formers might be nice, but I don't have enough experience using them to know how useful they'd really be.

As always, comments and corrections from players more experienced than I are welcome.

I'd also be more inclined towards MMI, though Bio-Engineering is only one step away, when we've researched Neural Grafting. You made a good point about thinkers, but for me the greatest benefits of MMI are choppers and the two awesome wonders. Getting to MMI first would mean we could get both of them.

The beeline to Fusion Power is also very important, especially because Pre-Sentient Algorithms is on the path. We really could use the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm.

[Minute Mirage]

As we all hopefully know, we are researching Ecological Engineering and are three turns from completion. Our next tech choices will be as follows:

Doctrine: Initiative
Centauri Empathy
Polymorphic Software
Environmental Economics
Doctrine: Loyalty
Neural Grafting.

I think it is quite clear that we should head for Environmental Economics. However, it should be noted that if we trade for one technology before getting Ecological Engineering, we won't be able to select Environmental Economics as our next choice and the cost of the next technology will also be higher. Thus, my advise is to abstain from tech trading until the next technological breakthrough is achieved.

After Environmental Economics, my advise would be to head for Mind/Machine Interface as soon as possible. We want to reach that tech first so that we can build both the Cyborg Factory and the Cloudbase Academy. Of course, we also want the choppers, drop pods and thinkers. Needless to say this is one of the most important technologies in the game. After MMI, we are probably most interested in Pre-Sentient Algorithms (Hunter-Seeker) and Fusion Power.

To reach MMI, we have to obtain the following technologies:

Applied Physics
High Energy Chemistry
Synthetic Fossil Fuels
Doctrine: Air Power
Neural Grafting.

I don't think we should research Applied Physics ourselves, but trade for it. Both the factions we have met at the moment (Hive, PEACE) have this tech, so we have a good chance of acquiring it.

Now, what would be the best order to research these techs so that we will reach MMI the quickest? The problem is that not all techs are always available, so we have to make a little planning beforehand. Thankfully, we can calculate the available choices beforehand. Here is the quickest way I came up with:

While we're researching Environmental Economics, we trade for both Applied Physics and Doctrine:Initiative. We could probably achieve this deal with the PEACE by offering them Ecological Engineering. You may wonder why we should trade for Doctrine:Initiative even though it's not on the MMI beeline. The reason is that D:I is the joker tech, and by researching it we get first Synthetic Fossil Fuels and then Doctrine: Air Power as the new joker techs. A joker tech is the technology that always appears in the choices. Anyway, when we're finished researching Environmental Economics, we get these choices:

Centauri Empathy
Polymorphic Software
Nonlinear Mathematics
High Energy Chemistry
Doctrine: Loyalty
Neural Grafting.

We continue with High Energy Chemistry, unless it is already researched by someone, in which case we could try to trade for it. Nevertheless, the next choices:

Synthetic Fossil Fuels
Centauri Empathy
Progenitor Psych
Polymorphic Software
Doctrine: Loyalty
Neural Grafting.

We pick Synthetic Fossil Fuels (notice that it's the joker tech now, otherwise it wouldn't be available). After we're finished, we get these choices:

Doctrine: Air Power
Progenitor Psych
Nonlinear Mathematics.

We continue with Doctrine: Air Power and get the following choices:

Centauri Empathy
Polymorphic Software
Nonlinear Mathematics
Doctrine: Loyalty
Neural Grafting.

It's time to pick Neural Grafting, or trade for it, if possible. Next choices:

Centauri Empathy
Progenitor Psych
Polymorphic Software
Doctrine: Loyalty.

Unfortunately, we can't research MMI yet. Both Doctrine: Loyalty and and Polymorphic Software are on the beeline to PSA, so we should try to trade for either of them (probably D:L) or research one ourselves. Next choices, in case we get D:L :

Intellectual Integrity
Progenitor Psych
Bio-Engineering
Nonlinear Mathematics
Mind/Machine Interface.

We can now pick MMI, and we should be the first faction to research it. If we get Applied Physics, Doctrine: Initiative and Doctrine: Loyalty by trading, we would have to research five techs ourselves (not counting Environmental Economics). We also get Doctrine: Air Power very quickly, which could be useful in case of a conflict.



Any comments on this plan? I know it is reaching quite far, and lots can happen in the mean time. However I figured it would be a good idea to make some plans beforehand and hopefully to get some discussion on our research plans.

[AdamTG02]

Thanks for the update, Minute Mirage. I have downloaded the last turn, but as I haven't been able to find the time to inspect it due to assignments, your information is appreciated.

I agree that Environmental Economics should be our next technology. We have those boreholdes to think about, after all. After that, I'm less sure -- we'll either want to go for the Planetary Energy Grid or the Citizen's Defense Force. Accepting the trade from the Hive would get us a long way toweard the CDF, and we can trade with the Pirates for Progenitor Psych, putting us halfway to the Energy Grid.

I recommend that following our receiving Ecological Engineering, we accept the Hive's deal, and follow that with an offer to the Pirates to trade EE for Doctrine: Initiative and Progenitor Psych. We may want to inform them, in order to make them less nervous about our taking Doc:Initiative, that we are aiming currently for the Energy Grid and Citizen's Defense Force.

After that, our path is less clear, but I suggest we move to Intellectual Integrity as soon as possible. We can't afford to let another faction gain the CDF if we plan to credibly face the Hive in the future. After that, I concur that the MMI beeline should be our priority. Should none of the techs on the beeline be available at some juncture, I propose that we research Adaptive Economics, for the Energy Grid. However, the Cyborg Factory is more vital to our long-term plans, and the MMI beeline shouold continue to be our first priority.

Incidentally, how do you predict what your tech choices will be next? That might save us a great deal of hassle in the future by letting us avoid first choice, second choice, third choice, et cetera and simply decide on one tech. I have a single-player save that I use to check the benefits of technologies for this thread, and that seems to have the same tech choices as well, but given that we're soon to be doing a lot of tech trading, it soon will be inaccurate. In any case, that save gives different choices whenevert I find a data pod, cash in an artifact, or trade a tech, so it's not a perfecty indicator.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by AdamTG02
Thanks for the update, Minute Mirage. I have downloaded the last turn, but as I haven't been able to find the time to inspect it due to assignments, your information is appreciated.

I agree that Environmental Economics should be our next technology. We have those boreholdes to think about, after all. After that, I'm less sure -- we'll either want to go for the Planetary Energy Grid or the Citizen's Defense Force. Accepting the trade from the Hive would get us a long way toweard the CDF, and we can trade with the Pirates for Progenitor Psych, putting us halfway to the Energy Grid.

I recommend that following our receiving Ecological Engineering, we accept the Hive's deal, and follow that with an offer to the Pirates to trade EE for Doctrine: Initiative and Progenitor Psych. We may want to inform them, in order to make them less nervous about our taking Doc:Initiative, that we are aiming currently for the Energy Grid and Citizen's Defense Force.

After that, our path is less clear, but I suggest we move to Intellectual Integrity as soon as possible. We can't afford to let another faction gain the CDF if we plan to credibly face the Hive in the future. After that, I concur that the MMI beeline should be our priority. Should none of the techs on the beeline be available at some juncture, I propose that we research Adaptive Economics, for the Energy Grid. However, the Cyborg Factory is more vital to our long-term plans, and the MMI beeline shouold continue to be our first priority.

Getting both Applied Physics and Doctrine: Loyalty while we're researching Environmental Economics would actually be a good idea. After finishing with Environmental Economics, we would get these choices:

Doctrine: Initiative
Intellectual Integrity
Centauri Empathy
Polymorphic Software
Nonlinear Mathematics
High Energy Chemistry
Neural Grafting.

We could continue with Intellectual Integrity and have a very good chance at getting the Citizen's Defense Force. Even if we miss the SP, II is on the beeline to PSA and Fusion. Our next choices, if we pick II:

Doctrine: Initiative
Centauri Empathy
Progenitor Psych
Polymorphic Software
High Energy Chemistry
Neural Grafting.

We continue with HEC and head for MMI. Next come

Doctrine: Initiative
Synthetic Fossil Fuels
Progenitor Psych
Cyberethics
Nonlinear Mathematics.

Synthetic Fossil Fuels leads us to

Doctrine: Initiative
Centauri Empathy
Polymorphic Software
Cyberethics
Nonlinear Mathematics
Neural Grafting.

We pick Neural Grafting and get the following choices:

Doctrine: Initiative
Doctrine: Air Power
Centauri Empathy
Progenitor Psych
Polymorphic Software.

Doctrine: Air Power is next, giving us a chance to research

Doctrine: Initiative
Progenitor Psych
Bio-Engineering
Cyberethics
Nonlinear Mathematics
Mind/Machine Interface.

This beeline means we have to research six techs after Environmental Economics to reach MMI. This is one more than in the previous beeline, but that one tech could prove very useful (Intellectual Integrity).


However, I'm not convinced we should be getting either Doctrine: Initiative or Progenitor Psych. The PEACE is already researching Adaptive Economics so they are likely to get the Planetary Energy Grid. Progenitor Psych by itself isn't very useful. And unless we're planning on an amphibious assault, Doctrine: Initiative isn't critical to us. If we do get these techs, they mess up our beelines somewhat, and also increase the research costs for our technologies.

Originally posted by AdamTG02
Incidentally, how do you predict what your tech choices will be next? That might save us a great deal of hassle in the future by letting us avoid first choice, second choice, third choice, et cetera and simply decide on one tech. I have a single-player save that I use to check the benefits of technologies for this thread, and that seems to have the same tech choices as well, but given that we're soon to be doing a lot of tech trading, it soon will be inaccurate. In any case, that save gives different choices whenevert I find a data pod, cash in an artifact, or trade a tech, so it's not a perfecty indicator.

I'm using a spreadsheet I created based on the formulas figured out in this thread. I've uploaded the newest version of the spreadsheet here. For this game, the slot number must be set to 1 (don't ask why) and the "Traded technologies?" switch must obviously be "Yes".

[AdamTG02]

Originally posted by Minute Mirage
This beeline means we have to research six techs after Environmental Economics to reach MMI. This is one more than in the previous beeline, but that one tech could prove very useful (Intellectual Integrity).

Sounds like a plan. The Cyborg Factory, Citizen's Defense Force, and the Cloudbase Academy if we can get it, all together, would give us a significant advantage in any conflict. The benefit of pursuing the CDF first is also that it appears to be a defensive SP, and so will not risk tipping the Hive off to our seizure intentions.

However, I'm not convinced we should be getting either Doctrine: Initiative or Progenitor Psych. The PEACE is already researching Adaptive Economics so they are likely to get the Planetary Energy Grid. Progenitor Psych by itself isn't very useful. And unless we're planning on an amphibious assault, Doctrine: Initiative isn't critical to us. If we do get these techs, they mess up our beelines somewhat, and also increase the research costs for our technologies.

Given that we're already postponing the beeline somewhat, and that we have our eyes on several other SPs, I'm willing to admit that the Energy Grid looks to be out of our reach. However, if the Pirates concentrate on the Maritime Control Center, we might still have a chance at it. More will be evident in the future, but for now I agree that the above beeline should be our plan.

I'm using a spreadsheet I created based on the formulas figured out in this thread. I've uploaded the newest version of the spreadsheet here. For this game, the slot number must be set to 1 (don't ask why) and the "Traded technologies?" switch must obviously be "Yes".

Thanks for the information. I'll look it over, and use it in compiling future technology choice lists. Thanks also for picking up the slack with this thread, also; my courses have been fairly hectic the last couple of days, and I haven't been able to give my other duties the attention they deserve.

Archaic, GT, and Crimson Sunrise -- any beeline thoughts?

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by AdamTG02

The Cyborg Factory, Citizen's Defense Force, and the Cloudbase Academy if we can get it, all together, would give us a significant advantage in any conflict.

Indeed. Any new base we capture would be instantly well protected against air and land assaults. We'd just have to remember to bring enough probes.

Originally posted by AdamTG02

Given that we're already postponing the beeline somewhat, and that we have our eyes on several other SPs, I'm willing to admit that the Energy Grid looks to be out of our reach.

I'd say that the PEG, while a very nice SP, is a luxury we can't afford at the moment.