May 28, 2003, 20:08
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#1
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Deity
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Bush Administration's latest excuse...
Just read this from Yahoo news: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...q_wolfowitz_dc
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Quote:
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LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The U.S. decision to stress the threat posed by Iraq (news - web sites)'s supposed weapons of mass destruction above all others was taken for "bureaucratic" reasons to justify the war, U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz was quoted as saying in remarks released on Wednesday.
Wolfowitz, seen as one of the most hawkish figures in the Bush administration's policy on Iraq, said President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s alleged cache of chemical, biological and possibly nuclear weapons was merely one of several reasons behind the decision to go to war.
"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone could agree on," Wolfowitz was quoted as saying in Vanity Fair magazine's July issue.
No chemical or biological weapons have been found in Iraq despite repeated assertions by President Bush (news - web sites) and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) before the March 20 invasion that the threat posed by Saddam's vast stocks of banned weapons warranted a war to eliminate them.
The United Nations (news - web sites) and America's allies were not convinced by the argument that it was justification for a war, which was launched amid protests in many world capitals. Washington's ties were major allies France and Germany are still strained.
Wolfowitz said another reason for the invasion had been "almost unnoticed but huge" -- namely that the ousting of Saddam would allow the United States to remove its troops from Saudi Arabia, where their presence had long been a major al Qaeda grievance.
"Just lifting that burden from the Saudis is itself going to open the door" to a more peaceful Middle East, Wolfowitz was quoted as saying.
The magazine said he made the remarks days before suicide bombings, attributed to al Qaeda, against Western targets in Riyadh and Casablanca two weeks ago that killed 75 people.
The United States announced last month that it was ending military operations in Saudi Arabia, where they have long generated Arab resentment because of their proximity to Islam's holiest sites.
Wolfowitz's remarks were released a day after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, seeking to explain why no weapons of mass destruction had been found, said Iraq may have destroyed them before the U.S.-led invasion.
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So, now, all that about WMD was all pure BS, as I suspected from day one.
Now the excuse was to save $$ from deploying in Saudi Arabia. Sorry, that's still no reason to launch a war and topple a regime. Considering the Cold War cost more than all other wars in history combined, why didn't the US just obliterate Russia back in the day and save all those trillions??
All this just proves is that the US blatantly misled the world about WMD (of course, preferable phrasing is "bureacratic reasons") when there were other intentions behind it. Should I find reasons to believe the US any more in the future? Hell no!
Well, I never did anyway... 
"All of us have heard this term 'preventive war' since the earliest days of Hitler. I recall that is about the first time I heard it. In this day and time...I don't believe there is such a thing; and, frankly, I wouldn't even listen to anyone seriously that came in and talked about such a thing."
-USA President Dwight Eisenhower, 1953, upon being presented with plans to wage preventive war to disarm Stalin's Soviet Union
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May 28, 2003, 20:10
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#2
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:33
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Yep - now let all the Apolyton Conservatives repeat after me.
"Bush was full of ****".
"Bush lied and we fell for it"
"The Lefties told us he was lying, but we were too dumb to believe them"
"We won't believe what Bush tells us again."
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Only feebs vote.
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May 28, 2003, 20:11
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#3
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Local Time: 21:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Location: ACK!! PPHHHHTTBBBTTTT!!!
Posts: 7,022
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Agathon
Yep - now let all the Apolyton Conservatives repeat after me.
"Bush was full of ****".
"Bush lied and we fell for it"
"The Lefties told us he was lying, but we were too dumb to believe them"
"We won't believe what Bush tells us again."
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You don't want much do you?
 ACK!
__________________
"I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside. Look out, he's fuzzy, let's get out of here."
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May 28, 2003, 20:12
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#4
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King
Local Time: 23:33
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Well Agathon, at least I wasn't defending Fidel Castro. Even my sister, who is a socialist, can't stand that stupid son of b*tch.
Anyways... back to the point.. what excuse? I don't see any excuse here. I see reasons.
And you lefties are hardly the people to trust when it comes to lying or not. I grant it to you, you are the experts at lying.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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May 28, 2003, 20:12
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#5
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Deity
Local Time: 19:33
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The world is better off without Saddam running a country. Just admiting that little fact will help you start upon the road to letting go of your hate.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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May 28, 2003, 20:13
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#6
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Fez
Well Agathon, at least I wasn't defending Fidel Castro. Even my sister, who is a socialist, can't stand that stupid son of b*tch.
Anyways... back to the point.. what excuse? I don't see any excuse here. I see reasons.
And you lefties are hardly the people to trust when it comes to lying or not. I grant it to you, you are the experts at lying.
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Fidel is a great man. HLVS!
Anyway, gotta run I hear the sound of approaching helicopters.... 
__________________
Only feebs vote.
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May 28, 2003, 20:14
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#7
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Local Time: 22:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Can the US at least do some decent state-building this time around? I am not impressed with the way it abandoned Afghanistan (or the way it verbally abused Canada, Germany, Belgium, etc. despite the fact that we are picking up the pieces after it in Aghaniland).
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May 28, 2003, 20:15
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#8
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Prince
Local Time: 03:33
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Zen
your Eisenhower quote is interesting, do you know roughly what was the timeframe when the US had atomic weapons but the USSR did not (ie when the hawks plan would have been feasible)?
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May 28, 2003, 20:15
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#9
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Oerdin
The world is better off without Saddam running a country. Just admiting that little fact will help you start upon the road to letting go of your hate.
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Yeah - did you see the sewage filled streets today? And the Kurds and Arabs shooting each other? And the guy buying a loaf of bread with a sack full of banknotes? And the pissed off Iraquis shooting at the troops?
A great place for a holiday. Wish you were there.
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Only feebs vote.
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May 28, 2003, 20:16
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#10
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Oerdin
The world is better off without Saddam running a country. Just admiting that little fact will help you start upon the road to letting go of your hate.
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same recycled moral excuse... try thinking of a new one next time... 
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:16
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#11
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by reds4ever
Zen....?
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Best sig I've seen on Apolyton so far R4E. Pity my beloved Newcastle beat them out for the CL next season. Heh heh....
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Only feebs vote.
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May 28, 2003, 20:18
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#12
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Prince
Local Time: 03:33
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Location: and the revolution
Posts: 555
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well, at least we all -including the conservatives- should agree that this kind of politics shouldn´t become the accepted thing.
it´s like a pool game I recently played. I was the one who finished the black ball. however I shot it into another hole than I announced before. that´s why I lost.
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justice is might
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May 28, 2003, 20:19
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#13
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King
Local Time: 23:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Agathon
Fidel is a great man. HLVS!
Anyway, gotta run I hear the sound of approaching helicopters....
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What would you say if you were one of those dissidents who was executed?
Nice man indeed.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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May 28, 2003, 20:19
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#14
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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Quote:
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Originally posted by reds4ever
Zen
your Eisenhower quote is interesting, do you know roughly what was the timeframe when the US had atomic weapons but the USSR did not (ie when the hawks plan would have been feasible)?
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yes, the US had a nuclear monopoly from 1945-1949. However, the fact that the US still had vastly superior delivery systems (i.e. long-range bombers) gave them an advantage for many years after. Still, the USSR could have launched some limited nuclear strike against Europe which might have been politically unacceptable, hence the beginning of deterrence. 
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:22
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#15
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Fez
What would you say if you were one of those dissidents who was executed?
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This:
"Wow I was really stupid and evil to try and undercut the Cuban revolution so that Cubans could go back to being the slaves of the US and our children could spend the day in sweatshops instead of going to school."
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Only feebs vote.
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May 28, 2003, 20:23
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#16
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by oedo
well, at least we all -including the conservatives- should agree that this kind of politics shouldn´t become the accepted thing.
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Very well put 
Whatever the end, such kinds of actions are simply barbarous in this supposedly enlightened XXI century. To think politicians 50 years ago made more sense...
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:26
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#17
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Deity
Local Time: 19:33
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 Slaves of the US?
I suppose you feel the Euros who work for GM's Vauxhaull & Opel subsideries are "slaves of the US" and that Americans who work for Toyota or Honda are slave's of Japan?
Man is that a screwed up way of looking at things. 
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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May 28, 2003, 20:26
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#18
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Prince
Local Time: 03:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Agathon
Best sig I've seen on Apolyton so far R4E. Pity my beloved Newcastle beat them out for the CL next season. Heh heh....
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Cheers, he was a funny guy.
Newcastle could be challeging next season, Dabisas (sp) needs to go and maybe another striker to take the pressure of an ageing Shearer and young Bellamy.
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May 28, 2003, 20:26
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#19
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King
Local Time: 21:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Location: Cyclo-who?
Posts: 2,995
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Fez
What would you say if you were one of those dissidents who was executed?
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Well, not a whole lot.
__________________
Lime roots and treachery!
"Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten
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May 28, 2003, 20:26
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#20
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King
Local Time: 23:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Agathon
This:
"Wow I was really stupid and evil to try and undercut the Cuban revolution so that Cubans could go back to being the slaves of the US and our children could spend the day in sweatshops instead of going to school."
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That is some of the biggest bullshit I ever heard.
You know Fidel has been doing exactly that. Making Cuba into a feudal state with slave like conditions. That is why so many people are trying to leave.
Do you really have to be this arrogant?
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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May 28, 2003, 20:27
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#21
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
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great, my thread has turned into another Castro debate... 
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:27
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#22
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
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__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:28
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#23
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Deity
Local Time: 19:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Master Zen
great, my thread has turned into another Castro debate...
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We're bored of the Bush trolls any way.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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May 28, 2003, 20:29
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#24
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by reds4ever
Cheers, he was a funny guy.
Newcastle could be challeging next season, Dabisas (sp) needs to go and maybe another striker to take the pressure of an ageing Shearer and young Bellamy.
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Yeah, what happened to Premier clubs at this year's CL?? Surprising considering how unexpectedly good the Italians did. Perhaps next year they'll do better.
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:31
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#25
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Oerdin
We're bored of the Bush trolls any way.
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Having continually losing arguements tends to be boring, I agree....
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:34
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#26
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Deity
Local Time: 19:33
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You would know.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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May 28, 2003, 20:34
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#27
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:33
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I never denied that Saddam presented no threat to us. Agathon, I will repeat after you once:
Bush was full of ****.
However I knew that already.
__________________
"You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran
Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005
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May 28, 2003, 20:35
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#28
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:33
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Posts: 8,164
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Zen -
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Quote:
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Now the excuse was to save $$ from deploying in Saudi Arabia.
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I didn't see money mentioned by Wolfowitz, only that getting our troops out of Saudi Arabia was desired because of Muslim holy sites in the area.
Btw, I was skeptical of the Bush administration's excuse for invasion - WMD - not because I thought Saddam didn't have any, I suspect he did have them, but because the proof was tenuous at best. But I'm still willing to give the troops time to find them, and I hope that if they do, the proof will be overwhelming so I won't have reason to suspect the "cops" of planting evidence.
Last edited by Berzerker; May 28, 2003 at 20:41.
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May 28, 2003, 20:36
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#29
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Oerdin
You would know.
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really? why?
history seems to be proving me right
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:36
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#30
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:33
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Quote:
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Originally posted by reds4ever
Cheers, he was a funny guy.
Newcastle could be challeging next season, Dabisas (sp) needs to go and maybe another striker to take the pressure of an ageing Shearer and young Bellamy.
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Yeah YBR is a great manager. I really like all the kids they've got coming up too. Agreed on Dabizas, he's a liability.
I hope Liverpool do better next season. I really think they are due for a break out soon. I can't stand the idea of Manure winning again.
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