May 28, 2003, 20:37
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#31
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Deity
Local Time: 19:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
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I'm all for getting out of Saudi Arabia but it has nothing to do with terrorism or money and everything to do with not supporting one of the most vile and repressive regimes on Earth. The day the house of Saud falls is the day I dance in the street.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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May 28, 2003, 20:37
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#32
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Prince
Local Time: 03:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: of the Spion Kop
Posts: 861
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sorry everyone for the slight threadjacking, but I had to share this one Shankly quote with Master Zen.
"Of course I didn't take my wife to see Rochdale play as an anniversary present. It was her birthday. Would I have got married in the football season? Anyway, it was Rochdale reserves." - Bill Shankly
BTW are you an ex-pat Zen?
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May 28, 2003, 20:38
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#33
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Fez
You know Fidel has been doing exactly that. Making Cuba into a feudal state with slave like conditions. That is why so many people are trying to leave.
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Why would you care what Fidel does to dissidents. You said that you loved Pinochet.
Threadjack over.
__________________
Only feebs vote.
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May 28, 2003, 20:38
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#34
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: of naughty
Posts: 10,579
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Berzerker
Zen -
I didn't see money mentioned by Wolfowitz, only that getting our troops out of Saudi Arabia was desired because of Muslim holy sites in the area.
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hehehe... I was reading an article on deployment costs right before that one, I guess the ideas got mixed 
they would save quite a bunch of $$ though!
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:41
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#35
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: of naughty
Posts: 10,579
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Quote:
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Originally posted by reds4ever
sorry everyone for the slight threadjacking, but I had to share this one Shankly quote with Master Zen.
"Of course I didn't take my wife to see Rochdale play as an anniversary present. It was her birthday. Would I have got married in the football season? Anyway, it was Rochdale reserves." - Bill Shankly
BTW are you an ex-pat Zen?
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no, I'm 100% Mexican living in 100% Mexico  . But we're all football freaks, and since the all-italian CL final was today, it's pretty much the talk of the town.
BTW: I wanted Juve to win but they played so friggin terrible. If they had played just half as good as against Real they would have annihilated Milan
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:42
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#36
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: of naughty
Posts: 10,579
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oh, and as far as Premier clubs go, I'm a red myself 
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:44
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#37
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King
Local Time: 23:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Agathon
Why would you care what Fidel does to dissidents. You said that you loved Pinochet.
Threadjack over.
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No I didn't.
And I am the one that says threadjack over.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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May 28, 2003, 20:47
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#38
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Retired
Local Time: 21:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Fez
And I am the one that says threadjack over.
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Uhhh... No, that's my job.
So come on folks... address the troll and stop the threadjacking...
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
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May 28, 2003, 20:48
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#39
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
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Zen -
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Quote:
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hehehe... I was reading an article on deployment costs right before that one, I guess the ideas got mixed
they would save quite a bunch of $$ though!
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How? They spent loads of money building bases in Saudi Arabia so we are losing that money by moving the troops,and if they are moved to Iraq, more money will be spent to build bases there or other Arab countries more welcoming of US troops.
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May 28, 2003, 20:49
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#40
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King
Local Time: 23:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ming
Uhhh... No, that's my job.
So come on folks... address the troll and stop the threadjacking...
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See even my DL says it!
Anyways... What more will the opposition to Bush pull out of their hat of lies? I'd like to hear what is next....
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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May 28, 2003, 20:49
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#41
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: of naughty
Posts: 10,579
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Sorry for my part in the football threadjack...
what troll Ming? 
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:51
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#42
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Local Time: 21:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ACK!! PPHHHHTTBBBTTTT!!!
Posts: 7,022
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__________________
"I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside. Look out, he's fuzzy, let's get out of here."
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May 28, 2003, 20:51
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#43
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: of naughty
Posts: 10,579
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Berzerker
Zen -
How? They spent loads of money building bases in Saudi Arabia so we are losing that money by moving the troops,and if they are moved to Iraq, more money will be spent to build bases there or other Arab countries more welcoming of US troops.
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who says they'll move to iraq? The whole idea is to get them back home now that the Middle East is supposedly "peaceful and safe".
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 20:55
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#44
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Prince
Local Time: 03:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: of the Spion Kop
Posts: 861
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Sorry Ming  but as for you Fez.....
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May 28, 2003, 20:56
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#45
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Prince
Local Time: 02:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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This was the major justification of the war that was pressed so hard before, and now their backpedalling!
Dont you just love it when conservatives moonwalk?
I feel all warm, tingly and vindicated now! This was the argument that was toughest the counter (not saying much baring in mind the strength of the others), and it is merely a construct!
Ah well! In all fairness to Fez , there are better examples of communism working, and working well, than Cuba.
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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May 28, 2003, 20:58
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#46
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Prince
Local Time: 02:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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"What more will the opposition to Bush pull out of their hat of lies"
"Yes, we know there are WMD's in Iraq."
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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May 28, 2003, 20:58
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#47
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Retired
Local Time: 21:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
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__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
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May 28, 2003, 20:59
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#48
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
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Obviously many will come home, but that was going to happen anyway. Many will stay in the region to make sure the job is done in Iraq. I heard we are building bases in Bahrain to accomodate the loss of bases in Saudi Arabia, so we aren't saving money. And I'm not sure who you are quoting with that "peaceful and safe" Middle East, the administration has repeatedly made it clear we will be there for quite a while because the ME is not peaceful and safe.
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May 28, 2003, 21:00
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#49
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King
Local Time: 23:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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May 28, 2003, 21:01
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#50
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Local Time: 04:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
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I have a question for pro-war people here :
- do you sincerely think WMDs were the first motivation of the administration to attack Iraq, or one of the most important reasons ?
- do you think the liberation of the Iraqi people was the major aim of the administration when attacking ?
- If not, did you think so before the beginning of the war ?
Thanks 
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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May 28, 2003, 21:01
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#51
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Prince
Local Time: 02:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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With many more billions heading in the direction of the US military (in the face of massive recent tax cuts), I'm pretty sure theyre not too worried about saving money at this stage.
This of course, worries me, as I fear we may face yet another military "adventure".
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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May 28, 2003, 21:05
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#52
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Prince
Local Time: 02:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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"Yes.. oh Somalia it was with Bairre... and Ethoipia too with Mengistu... ALL VERY FINE EXAMPLES... not...
Eeek.. I better stop drinking Red Bull at night"
Ummm, again with the thread jacking (Im sorry I probably encouraged it though ).... You want to continue this, PM me or start another thread, but for now, I think the people want to hear about Bush's failure to back up his evidence.
Spiffor, you know I am not exactly what one might describe as pro-war, but in answer to your questions, no, no and no!!
It is somewhat naive imo to claim that the true motivations were anything other than money (oil and arms) and political gain at home.
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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May 28, 2003, 21:06
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#53
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King
Local Time: 23:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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I think the people want to hear about Bush's failure to back up his evidence.
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You don't speak for the people.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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May 28, 2003, 21:06
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#54
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Deity
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: of naughty
Posts: 10,579
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Quote:
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Originally posted by elijah
With many more billions heading in the direction of the US military (in the face of massive recent tax cuts), I'm pretty sure theyre not too worried about saving money at this stage.
This of course, worries me, as I fear we may face yet another military "adventure".
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Iran, Syria, N. Korea, take your pick
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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May 28, 2003, 21:09
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#55
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Fez
No I didn't.
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Yes you did...
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Quote:
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The only Latin American country that had a good dictator was Chile
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http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=71260
Took me ages to find that.
__________________
Only feebs vote.
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May 28, 2003, 21:11
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#56
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King
Local Time: 23:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Sorry Agathon, I didn't say I liked him though. I just said he was good.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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May 28, 2003, 21:11
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#57
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Local Time: 22:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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- do you sincerely think WMDs were the first motivation of the administration to attack Iraq, or one of the most important reasons ?
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No, as Wolfy said, it was just that which everyone could agree on.
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Quote:
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- do you think the liberation of the Iraqi people was the major aim of the administration when attacking ?
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Kind of... if you define liberation of the Iraqi people to mean getting rid of a dangerous dictator (which is almost but not quite the same).
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Quote:
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- If not, did you think so before the beginning of the war ?
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On which one? I didn't think either was the goal. The goal was to get Saddam out, and that is why I backed the war. I don't care about WMD one hoot! Now, getting rid of a dangerous anti-American dictator... that's one cause I can get behind.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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May 28, 2003, 21:12
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#58
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Prince
Local Time: 02:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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"You don't speak for the people"
Ditto
I speak for myself, and I interpret what I see. If you think it is anything other than a failure to back up his evidence, then explain that alternative explanation, otherwise, cease your ad hominems (which are really getting rather irritating), and use reasoning, which one can debate. Ad hominems only serve to stagnate an otherwise dynamic discussion.
Red Bull is good (just dont mix it  )
They used a series of points to back up this war, the centrepiece of which is now looking like a dead duck, so it will be most interesting to see what happens now. Im guessing that the fallacious, emotive argument of dictatorship will be used by the US now. This argument is about as watertight as a sieve....
Needless to say, I dont really need to pull objectivity out of my "hat of lies".
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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May 28, 2003, 21:12
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#59
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Emperor
Local Time: 11:33
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Fez
Sorry Agathon, I didn't say I liked him though. I just said he was good.
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No worries. Let's stop before Ming kills us.
__________________
Only feebs vote.
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May 28, 2003, 21:13
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#60
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Local Time: 22:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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Let's stop before Ming kills us.
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Too late, the laser beam is aiming .
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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