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Old May 29, 2003, 19:52   #1
albiedamned
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How to Use Spies and Scouts
I've read lots of different posts about the various stealth units, how to defeat them, when they can be seen etc. So I decided to do some research on my own to confirm how it really works. I set up a test game where I controlled both players. Here is what I found:

Visibility: Basic scouts can always be seen, however beginning with the Explorer upgrade and continuing through Commando and Special Forces, they can only be seen when moving or using their special abilities. They remain visible for a few seconds after stopping, then disappear (to the other player - you still see them of course). However they can be seen if the enemy has a "detect" unit or building nearby (see next section). Spies can never be seen by your enemy without a detection unit or building. Submarines and Attack Submarines also can never be seen without a detection unit or building.

Detection: The following can see Spies, Submarines/Attack Submarines, and non-moving Explorers/Commandoes/Special Forces: anything from the Scout line, Observation Posts, Helicopters, Submarines/Attack Submarines, and all Light Ships (from Bark through Missle Cruiser). Note that there is no distinction between land and sea units for stealth and detection purposes, so a Light Ship or Submarine can see a Spy near the coast, while an Observation Post or Scout on the coast can spot a Submarine. Also note that Spies are not detect units. So Spies cannot see other Spies on their own.

Attacking Spies: Members of the Scout line do not attack Spies on their own. They can use their Counterintelligence ability to destroy a Spy, but this of course requires you to specifcally select your Explorer/Commando/Special Forces unit and right click on the Spy. Spies can also use the Counterilligence ability to destroy an enemy Spy, but only if they can see the Spy via some other nearby detection unit or building since they won't be able to see it on their own. If an enemy Spy is visible thanks to a nearby detection unit, then your regular military units will attack it. So if you include Scouts in your military formations, then those formations will be able to see and attack Spies. Note that a Light Ship positioned off the coast will open fire on a Spy, as will a Helicopter that spots a Spy.

Attacking Scouts: Just as with Spies, your regular military units will attack a Scout provided they can see it, either because there is a nearby detection unit or building, or because the Scout is moving. Note that the Counterintelligence ability does not work on Scouts, so Spies and Scouts can't use it on enemy Scouts.

Edit - One very effective way of keeping Spies and members of the Scout line away from your cities is to build tower/observation post combinations. The OP makes the unit visible, allowing the Tower to open fire.

Informers: Only Spies can plant informers. Once you plant an informer, you gain line of sight from that building as well as specific information related to that building. For example, click on an infiltrated barracks to see how many ground troops the enemy has. If the enemy infiltrates one of your buildings, the word "Informer" will flash in red in the bottom right display. The building will also flash the enemy's colors every few seconds. So finding infiltrated buildings is not tough. Both Spies and Scouts can use the Counterintelligence ability to remove informers. Note that the Counterintelligence ability serves two purposes for Spies and Scouts: to remove informers, and to attack Spies.

Bribes: Only Spies can bribe units. There's not much to it - just select the Spy and right click on the target unit. If the enemy can see you due to a detection unit or building, then your Spy is subject to attack by the unit you are bribing and other nearby units.

Sabotage: Beginning with the Commando upgrade, the Scout line gains the Sabotage ability. Using it is simple - just select the Commando/Special Forces unit and right click on the target building. Based on my testing, the amount of damage done is either half the building's remaining health or 200, whichever is greater. So to completely destroy a building, it must already be below 200 health. Using multiple Commandoes together at the same time is the best way to completely destroy a building. The amount of damage done did not change with the upgrade to Special Forces. Special Forces however have more total craft points, so basically they can use their abilities more often. I didn't test Elite Special Forces.

Sniper: Beginning with the Commando upgrade, the Scout line gains the Sniper ability. Sniping will completely kill stable/auto plant units, siege factory units, and generals. For infantry units, it will kill 1 of the 3 guys. You can also use Sniper to kill enemy Scout units. For seige units, supply wagons, and later with tanks and armored cars, the Commandoes actually have to run up to the unit rather than snipe it from a distance.

That's about it. I hope this information is useful.
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Last edited by albiedamned; May 29, 2003 at 20:06.
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Old May 29, 2003, 20:46   #2
HalfLotus
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Great stuff.

When one of your buildings is planted with an informer, it pings the minimap on that building. Very easy to find. If your opponent gets Informer happy (like me), you may want to have 1-2 spies roam near your cities/barracks for quick counterintel. I'll try putting up observation posts for spotting. Obs Posts become AA guns later, very useful!
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Old May 30, 2003, 11:19   #3
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Are you saying that spies are not seen during bribery (if there is no detecting unit next to them)?
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Old May 30, 2003, 11:39   #4
albiedamned
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I thought that spies were going to be visible while using their abilities. Otherwise the Russian bonus of "spies not visible even when using abilities" wouldn't make sense. However I did test this last night, and the spies weren't visible. I was testing using British and Spanish, so the Russian ability didn't come into play. I will test it again tonight to double check.

FYI, my test was to have a spy start to plant an informer (which takes a few seconds), and then to quickly switch control to the other civ and look to see if I could see the spy. And I couldn't see it. I don't think I tested it with bribery. I would expect it to be the same as with planting informers, but I will retest both tonight.
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Old May 30, 2003, 12:54   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by albiedamned
I thought that spies were going to be visible while using their abilities. Otherwise the Russian bonus of "spies not visible even when using abilities" wouldn't make sense. However I did test this last night, and the spies weren't visible. I was testing using British and Spanish, so the Russian ability didn't come into play. I will test it again tonight to double check.

FYI, my test was to have a spy start to plant an informer (which takes a few seconds), and then to quickly switch control to the other civ and look to see if I could see the spy. And I couldn't see it. I don't think I tested it with bribery. I would expect it to be the same as with planting informers, but I will retest both tonight.
i believe there is an upgrade at the fort that makes spies invisible while "casting"
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Old May 30, 2003, 13:01   #6
albiedamned
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uber KruX
i believe there is an upgrade at the fort that makes spies invisible while "casting"
I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know that I didn't research it in my test game since the only researches I did were library and unit uprades. So that wouldn't explain what I saw.
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Old May 30, 2003, 13:34   #7
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No, spies are always visible when using their abilities, EXCEPT the russian spies, that's their nation bonus.
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Old May 30, 2003, 20:18   #8
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1. When your spy infiltrates an enemy building, does she et killed?
2. when you infiltate a building and the enemy get's a spy to counter this, does she then get killed ?
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Old May 30, 2003, 20:19   #9
albiedamned
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I did some more testing on when spies are visible.

- Spies are not visible when planting informers, not during the planting, and not after.

- Spies are visible when bribing units. While "casting" the bribe, they are sort of half visible, like a ghost. After the bribe, they become fully visible. The amount of time they remain visible seems to vary, but is usually around a minute. However this amount of time seems to be reduced if the Spy moves around. However I could not figure out an exact formula for this.

- During Counterintelligence, both destroying enemy spies and removing informers, Spies are not visible during the "casting", but become visible immediately after. Like with bribes, the amount of time they remain visible varies but is about a minute, and seems to be reduced if the Spy moves around.

Of course none of this applies if there is a detection unit or building nearby. In that case the Spy is fully visible all the time.
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Old May 30, 2003, 20:22   #10
albiedamned
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Quote:
Originally posted by alva
1. When your spy infiltrates an enemy building, does she et killed?
2. when you infiltate a building and the enemy get's a spy to counter this, does she then get killed ?
No and no. The documentation is a little misleading on informers - it leads you to think that your Spy actually remains in the building as the informer. This is not the case. When you use a Spy to plant an informer, the Spy uses up her "craft" points which then regenerate automatically. Once the craft points regenerate, you can use that Spy for additional missions - she doesn't have to stay at the informer building. When an enemy uses Counterintelligence to remove an informer, it has no effect on the Spy who planted the informer.
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