Happy Tiananmen Square Massacre Day

DaShi · June 4, 2003, 14:35

What are you doing to celebrate?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/inte...Tiananmen.html

Quote:

Hong Kong Remembers Tiananmen Crackdown
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 10:49 a.m. ET

HONG KONG (AP) -- Waving candles and singing patriotic Chinese songs, more than 12,000 people in Hong Kong on Wednesday demanded an accounting of the 1989 crackdown against pro-democracy activists in Tiananmen Square and voiced fears local freedoms are being crushed.

The Hong Kong government is about to win approval of an anti-subversion bill -- which carries life prison sentences for many crimes against the state. Critics fear the former British colony could find itself subjected to mainland-style suppression of unpopular views, although Hong Kong insists this is not an issue.

Thousands of people gathered for a candlelight ceremony commemorating Tiananmen and hoping they can some day heal wounds that still cut deep here -- 14 years after China used tanks and troops to stop the student democracy movement in Beijing on June 4, 1989.

``A democratic China is something that I've wanted since the massacre,'' said Pauline Wong, a clerk. ``But it's going to be a long road before it can become a reality.''

Her 8-year-old son, Ernest, agreed.

``The people who died on June 4 were heroes,'' the boy said.

Activists placed flower bouquets around a mock gray monument to honor those who died in the crackdown. Hundreds, if not thousands, were killed.

``They died for liberty,'' said John Mak, a teacher and devout Christian who fears he may someday need his Canadian passport to flee Hong Kong and keep practicing his religion. ``Hopefully someday mainland China will listen.''

This year's Tiananmen demonstration was accompanied by worries among many about how long they can keep speaking out.

``If you say something bad -- not bad, something the government doesn't like -- you could go to jail or be fined,'' said Mak's sister, Donna, a legislative assistant. Even for ``a gathering like this.''

Secretary for Security Regina Ip has called such fears inaccurate and insists Hong Kong's civil rights are untouchable.

Ip says the law is intended to stop people from attempting to violently overthrow the central government or to undermine China's national security -- not to stifle political or religious views that can be freely expressed in Hong Kong.

Asked for an opinion, import-export businessman David Ko wrapped his hands around his neck like a noose.

``This is going back 50 years and choking us,'' Ko said. ``It's unacceptable. We should be an inspiration to the whole of China on the road to democracy, but we have a local government that is oppressive.''

Activist Law Yuk-kai of the Hong Kong Human Rights Monitor predicted the law will discourage dissent and will eventually be used to silence critics.

``The problem is, the water's being heated up only gradually,'' Law said. ``At one point, the frog will notice it's cooked.''

Hoping to ease such fears, Ip on Tuesday announced changes to the legislation, making some crimes harder to prosecute -- for example by imposing a three-year statute of limitations for any prosecution of publishing seditious materials.

The Tiananmen crackdown stirred massive protests in Hong Kong, fueling worries in Beijing that Hong Kong could develop as a ``base for subversion.''

Some people here say they remain deeply angry and want to see change in China.

``Someday we need to be the Palestinian people and fight,'' said truck driver Simon Mok.

When Hong Kong was handed back to China in 1997, the same mini-constitution that guaranteed freedoms of speech, press and religion also required that Hong Kong outlaw subversion, treason, sedition and other crimes against the state.

``Someday we need to be the Palestinian people and fight,''

What an odd thing to say.

Bereta_Eder · June 4, 2003, 14:38

Iraqi massacre celebration is when?

DaShi · June 4, 2003, 15:02

Not till next year. So you've got plenty of time to prepare.

GePap · June 4, 2003, 15:03

Happy anniversary!!!

hey, what, let go of me, what are you doing!!....

JohnT · June 4, 2003, 15:05

I'm renewing my vows never to be a Communist.

Sava · June 4, 2003, 15:20

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnT
I'm renewing my vows never to be a Communist.

If you're going to let others dictate your actions... well...

but you should educate yourself to what Communism is, rather than let those Chinese authoritarian 4ssholes shape your view of it. And this is coming from someone who lost family to the Stalinist f*ckers.

It's this kind of F'ed reasoning that leads to anti-Islamic hate crime due to terrorism.

Drake Tungsten · June 4, 2003, 15:41

Damn you DaShi. I had a nice Tiananmen remembrance thread all prepared at 2 am last night, but my internet connection crapped out and now you've beat me to it. Oh well, I might as well post what I had to say anyway...

On this day fourteen years ago, thousands of innocent protestors were murdered in cold blood on Tiananmen Square. These protestors, mostly young college students, wanted nothing more than to push for democratic reform and an end to corruption in the authoritarian Chinese government. On June 4, 1989 many of these brave protestors paid the ultimate price in their pursuit of these noble goals, dying at the hands of the People's "Liberation" Army sent to end their peaceful demonstration. It is estimated that over 7000 protestors were killed and thousands more wounded, although the cover-up by the Chinese government means that we will probably never know for sure.

No member of the Chinese Communist goverment was ever punished for this appaling atrocity. The families of the victims have received no semblance of justice. Yet, as the years go by and business between China and the rest of the world booms, the events at Tiananmen Square have fallen farther and farther from view. This is a disheartening turn of events, as the government of China has shown no remorse for their actions, no sign that they understand that what they did was wrong.

Tiananmen Square is not the totality of Chinese human rights abuses; it is merely the most visible incident. The Communist government in China has a long history of unleashing misery upon its own population, from the Great Leap Forward to the Cultural Revolution. After the savagery on Tiananmen Square, it seemed for a brief time that the world might be serious about holding China to account for it atrocious human rights record. This wasn't to be the case. Today, China continues its brutal repression of its citizens, as shown by current crackdowns on political dissidents and religious groups like Falun Gong, with very little in the way of protest by the international community.

On the anniversary of this horrible tragedy, let us remember the bravery of those protestors who stood up and died in the pursuit of democracy. Let us also think of those brave souls who are fighting for democracy in China as we speak, in spite of the danger posed to them by the thuggish Communist leadership. Finally, let us all recapture some of the spirit of Tiananmen and do what we can to push for change in the People's Republic of China. The fallen deserve better than to have died in vain.

Never forget...

Solly · June 4, 2003, 15:42

Spiffor · June 4, 2003, 15:52

Dang. 7000 dead. I knew the deathtoll was high, but I'd never think such a crowd was killed on that very place

Giancarlo · June 4, 2003, 15:55

The Truth of Communism:

Though Communism is attractive on paper, that is all it is attractive on. Every single form of communism will degenerate into a power hungry dictatorship.

Down with the murderous communist beliefs.. I don't care what these people call themselves.. they are all the same.

GePap · June 4, 2003, 15:57

You guys mean "the truth of autoritarian dictatorships".

Giancarlo · June 4, 2003, 16:03

No, we mean Communism. I don't care if somebody is a ultra-leftist stalinist, ultra-leftist trotykist or ultra-left windbag, or whatever.. they are all the same. The same basic philosophy which falls into the murder of thousands upon thousands, and in some cases millions.

Solly · June 4, 2003, 16:06

How did that date go Gianny?

Giancarlo · June 4, 2003, 16:08

Quite well... but we didn't go out for long.. just went to this fast food joint...

Az · June 4, 2003, 16:10

IIRC, the economic market reforms were introduced earlier than that. How about we call it the crimes of the capitalist system?

I am sorry that I have to do this. I just came to say that I think that what happened was indeed terrible, and outrageous. But, SOME people try to make a point out of it.

Giancarlo · June 4, 2003, 16:11

What crimes of capitalism?

SlowwHand · June 4, 2003, 16:27

Azazel missed his meds today.

Go students!

MichaeltheGreat · June 4, 2003, 17:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
IIRC, the economic market reforms were introduced earlier than that. How about we call it the crimes of the capitalist system?

I am sorry that I have to do this. I just came to say that I think that what happened was indeed terrible, and outrageous. But, SOME people try to make a point out of it.

How about we remember that the crimes were ordered by leaders of the Chinese Communist Party, who still decree themselves to be the sole political authority in China.

reds4ever · June 4, 2003, 17:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Fez
The Truth of Communism:

He'd have stood a chance with a spear in Civ3!

David Floyd · June 4, 2003, 17:42

All those lined up tanks would make a nice, target rich environment for an A-10 or a couple of Longbow Apaches, eh?

In any case, I'd like to see any resident Chinese defending Tiananmen Square - WITHOUT picking on the US. Although there is plenty to pick on, I'll grant almost every single point, and in any case we're talking about China, not the US.

Arrian · June 4, 2003, 17:42

A sad day.

-Arrian

VetLegion · June 4, 2003, 17:51

Quote:

He'd have stood a chance with a spear in Civ3!

Arrian · June 4, 2003, 17:54

Not a very good chance.

-Arrian

reds4ever · June 4, 2003, 18:10

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
All those lined up tanks would make a nice, target rich environment for an A-10

You mean paint Union Jacks on them?

reds4ever · June 4, 2003, 18:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
Not a very good chance.

-Arrian

He'd have been the betting favourite before the first patch came out!

alva · June 4, 2003, 18:16

Quote:

The Truth of Communism:

Quote:

What crimes of capitalism?

and again

That really the best you can do??
-

That's one of the pictures that I'll never forget.

One of the few times a real hero stood up, as Arrian said, a sad day...
(they killed him a soon after btw.)

ranskaldan · June 4, 2003, 18:17

Quote:

In any case, I'd like to see any resident Chinese defending Tiananmen Square - WITHOUT picking on the US. Although there is plenty to pick on, I'll grant almost every single point, and in any case we're talking about China, not the US.

Where the hell is everyone?!

Anyway:

If the demonstrators had gotten what they wanted, China would have been grandly screwed. A Russia-times-100 anarchy would have plunged the Chinese people into misery that few of us (American OR Chinese) can even fathom today.

Is it right to kill one innocent to save the lives of one hundred?

I'm sure a lot of you think that, in retrospect, the Iraqi War was a good thing. Many Iraqis died under tragic circumstances, but in the long-term, Iraq will become a much nicer place for future generations.

[Yes. I know the circumstances are not the same. But the same moral judgement comes into play: that's the one in bold above.]

So, why the double standard?

I'll allow Tingkai and UR to make the comparisons to the Vietnam War demonstrations.

Hueij · June 4, 2003, 18:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Fez
No, we mean Communism. I don't care if somebody is a ultra-leftist stalinist, ultra-leftist trotykist or ultra-left windbag, or whatever.. they are all the same. The same basic philosophy which falls into the murder of thousands upon thousands, and in some cases millions.

Right..........

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you the Pinochet, Videla and Franco supporter?

Oy, I forgot, they did what they had to do to stop the evil Communists. Consider this post non-written...

DinoDoc · June 4, 2003, 18:27

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
In any case, I'd like to see any resident Chinese defending Tiananmen Square - WITHOUT picking on the US.

You might as well tell some (thinking of one in particular) of them not to post at all then.

Giancarlo · June 4, 2003, 18:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Hueij

Right..........

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you the Pinochet, Videla and Franco supporter?

Yes on Franco.. Videla absolutely not.. he didn't do anything for Argentina besides murder. And Pinochet.. well he murdered people.. but he did good for the Chilean economy.