Can you live without tabbed browsing? - Page 3

SlowwHand · June 5, 2003, 16:05

I finally switched, again, to Opera 7.11.
Have to say it's nice.
Yeah, the tabs, too.

ixnay · June 5, 2003, 17:20

re: Quicktime. Do a search in the help about it. Getting plugins to work (Quicktime, Real, etc.) can be a bit of a hassle, but it's possible to get it working.

Agathon · June 5, 2003, 18:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I just DLed Opera, and it's good... but it seems to freeze up whenever I check my email (web based email). And I can't get Quicktime to integrate with it. Maybe I'll stick with IE...

Opera is OK, but you should try Mozilla or the new Mozilla Firebird.

Victor Galis · June 5, 2003, 18:54

I hate tabs. I can't use Alt-Tab to go through them. There's nothing wrong with multiple windows. In fact that way I don't accidentally close all the windows I'm looking at when I just want to get rid of one.

Whaleboy · June 5, 2003, 19:02

Mozilla 1.3 and 1.4!!!

Tabbed browsing is such a useful feature, and easy on memory. How long before IE incorporates it?

Forgetting FOSS vs proprietery and the OS wars, I have to say that Mozilla 1.3 and the beta for 1.4 are the most superior browser available!!

Agathon · June 5, 2003, 19:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Victor Galis
I hate tabs. I can't use Alt-Tab to go through them. There's nothing wrong with multiple windows. In fact that way I don't accidentally close all the windows I'm looking at when I just want to get rid of one.

Um... most browsers with tabs have a key combo to switch between them.

Asher · June 5, 2003, 19:22

Quote:

Originally posted by elijah
Tabbed browsing is such a useful feature, and easy on memory. How long before IE incorporates it?

Tabbing saves 0 memory. IE already works by having one process then multiple threads, exactly like tabbing in Opera and Mozilla. The difference is Opera and Mozilla's tabs split up the browser windows to their own special tab pane, that's it.

Myself, I usually prefer all of my windows in one place. It's just easier for me. Plus the "accidentally closing them all" factor is annoying.

Victor Galis · June 5, 2003, 19:29

Quote:

Um... most browsers with tabs have a key combo to switch between them

-Yeah, but then I have to use different key combos for switching between browser windows and for switching between other things.

Whaleboy · June 5, 2003, 19:36

To the defence of IE and MS eh Asher?

On my old machine, I find tabbing to make things run faster. Thats mozilla 1.3 compiled for windows and IE6.

Personally, its faster to switch between them, and have them clearly on screen in a more coherent interface, than different windows on the taskbar, with pop-ups that IE doesnt suppress, it all gets confusing and silly.

Agathon · June 5, 2003, 19:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Victor Galis

-Yeah, but then I have to use different key combos for switching between browser windows and for switching between other things.

But you get the benefit of being able to go back and forth with tabs.

Asher · June 5, 2003, 19:40

Quote:

Originally posted by elijah
To the defence of IE and MS eh Asher?

On my old machine, I find tabbing to make things run faster. Thats mozilla 1.3 compiled for windows and IE6.

If you find Mozilla 1.3 faster than IE6, especially on an older machine, well

Even the Mozilla folks admit to Mozilla being bloaty, that's why they're canning the browser as you use it now and replacing it with Firebird or Thunderbird or whatever-the-hell stupid name they chose.

Quote:

with pop-ups that IE doesnt suppress, it all gets confusing and silly.

Why would anyone use a browser to block pop-ups? Proximotron or any decent firewall will do that for you.

Found some benchmarks. It's hard to find really up to date ones, so these'll have to do until someone else finds newer ones:
http://www.tecchannel.de/internet/479/27.html

As you can see, IE6 is faster most of the time, sometimes a great deal faster than Mozilla 1.0 (for first iteration download in seconds, Mozilla: 13.36, IE6: 1.91, Opera 6: 2.50 )

Asher · June 5, 2003, 19:53

On a side note and because I don't wanna open another thread for this:
http://www.barefeats.com/p4game.html

A Dual 1.42GHz G4 w/ Radeon 9700 versus single 3.06GHz P4 w/ Radeon 9700 in Unreal Tournament 2003 (1024x768):
Mac: 94fps
PC: 214fps

Keep in mind the Mac is considerably more expensive, too.

Victor Galis · June 5, 2003, 19:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon

But you get the benefit of being able to go back and forth with tabs.

Yeah, but I can do that without tabs, and without tabs it feels more integrated.

Zopperoni · June 5, 2003, 20:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Victor Galis
I hate tabs. I can't use Alt-Tab to go through them. There's nothing wrong with multiple windows. In fact that way I don't accidentally close all the windows I'm looking at when I just want to get rid of one.

In Opera, one uses CTRL+TAB for tab navigation.

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
Myself, I usually prefer all of my windows in one place. It's just easier for me. Plus the "accidentally closing them all" factor is annoying.

In Opera, one can restart where one (accidentally) left off.

Whaleboy · June 5, 2003, 20:11

Quote:

A Dual 1.42GHz G4 w/ Radeon 9700 versus single 3.06GHz P4 w/ Radeon 9700 in Unreal Tournament 2003 (1024x768):
Mac: 94fps
PC: 214fps

Interesting you dont mention the linux figure for that!! I have a P4 2.8Ghz, half a gig of ram with a Geforce IV MX440 128MB DDRAM (with the generic driver, not Nvidias own), slackware linux, and I just got a FPS of 289 at 1024x768

. That was 32bit though.

Whaleboy · June 5, 2003, 20:14

Asher, what is it exactly you prefer about windows to mac, linux and bsd?

Agathon · June 5, 2003, 20:23

Quote:

Originally posted by elijah
Asher, what is it exactly you prefer about windows to mac, linux and bsd?

He's a fanatic and he wants to work for MS - there is no rational explanation for it.

Asher · June 5, 2003, 20:28

Quote:

Originally posted by elijah
Interesting you dont mention the linux figure for that!!

That would be because there wasn't a Linux benchmark for that on the page!!

Asher · June 5, 2003, 20:29

Quote:

Originally posted by elijah
Asher, what is it exactly you prefer about windows to mac, linux and bsd?

Macs are grossly overpriced and lack the functionality of Windows.
Linux is chaotic, kludgey, and generally amateurish for the desktop.
BSD is the best server OS you can get.

Q Classic · June 5, 2003, 20:42

i really really like tabbed browsing--gotten used to it, and it's awfully helpful in forums, where i usually open a new window per interesting thread.

on that note, i really really like opera's mouse gestures. mozilla's mouse gesture plugin doesn't nearly work as well.

Asher · June 5, 2003, 20:42

Quote:

Originally posted by elijah
Interesting you dont mention the linux figure for that!!

I did some digging for you:
Linux: http://www.amdpower.com/sections.php...ticle&artid=97
Windows: http://www.amdpower.com/sections.php...ticle&artid=98

Unreal Tournament 2003 Antalas Map(1024x768, Ti4200):
Linux: 71.9fps
Windows: 89.2fps

Unreal Tournament 2003 Asbestos Map(1024x768, Ti4200):
Linux: 79.2fps
Windows: 144.4fps

Quake III (1024x768, Ti4200):
Linux: 209.1fps
Windows: 239.8fps

As I said, Linux isn't as good as everyone tells you.

Q Classic · June 5, 2003, 20:49

asher? i have to say, this article makes no mention of which driver set they're using.

on my geforce3, with linux drivers 1.0-4363 compared to windows drivers 44.03, unreal tournament 2003 runs faster and smoother with a framerate roughly 5-10 fps higher. this is also on a p4/1.7ghz system.

that's the only game i have that works on both, but.

(one note, i'm unable to actually give you screenshots or any other sort of proof for at least the next two weeks. not being where my home computer is for that long, anyway.)

besides, it doesn't matter--for all intents and purposes, linux is a meta-gaming environment.

Asher · June 5, 2003, 20:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
asher? i have to say, this article makes no mention of which driver set they're using.

http://www.amdpower.com/sections.php...ticle&artid=96
Drivers:
Windows: Dentonator Version 30.82
Linux: NVIDIA Version 1-0.3123

OSes:
Windows 2000 Professional SP3
Linux: Redhat 8.0 with Kernel 2.4.18-4

So Linux was using a newer driver...

Q Classic · June 5, 2003, 20:54

ah, my mistake. i couldn't find that page.

in my system, i gave you my drivers:

the osses:

winxp pro sp1
rh9 kernel 2.4.20-13.9

======

another note. i can run ut2003 with no frame skipping in linux at 1024x768x32. for comparable smoothness, i have to knock resolution down in windows to 800x600x32.

Imran Siddiqui · June 5, 2003, 23:13

Eh... I don't want to DL Mozilla... the bloatness turns me off... and, of course, IE works perfectly for me.. Opera DL was just for fun.

Victor Galis · June 5, 2003, 23:18

Windows just has so many more games than Linux, and I'm used to it. Though Microsoft may be the devil, I think I will continue to use it.

Spiffor · June 6, 2003, 14:54

Mozilla indeed is bloaty, but I find it pretty stable compared to older versions of IE. I have a friend who uses IE4 even though Moz 1.2.1 is on his computer, because his comp is old and Moz takes ages to launch. However, IE has a bad habit of crashing because of the many popups and new windows, which force me to close all the windows with ONE ctrl+alt+del.

With Mozilla, it is much more stable one the original launch is done.

I am not an anti-MS fanatic. I have a Linux on my comp that I never ever use, because I don't need it. But Mozilla is simply much, much more convenient and user friendly than IE, especially because of tabbed browsing.

Imran Siddiqui · June 6, 2003, 14:56

Spiffor: The new IE's are much, much more stable. But the popups are still problems.

loinburger · June 6, 2003, 15:00

Proxomitron's good for what ails ya.

Spiffor · June 6, 2003, 15:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Spiffor: The new IE's are much, much more stable. But the popups are still problems.

My friend's comp has 64 Mb RAM. No way he installs any software newer than 3 years old