Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, 15+ Dead

Eli · June 11, 2003, 11:32

Surprise, surprise, in less than 24 hours after vowing revenge Hamas managed to get a suicide bomber, get an explosive belt, connect the two, gather intelligence on access roads to Jerusalem and the security inside the city and infiltrate to the city. Those guys must really be good at this. Or is it possible that this terract is no different from all previous ones and took days and weeks to plan and execute?

As a sidenote, Israeli helicopters fired on a car in Gaza and killed the Hamasnik that was managing all the rocket fire on Sderot, his name is Masud Tito.
5 more people were killed, it is yet unknown how many of them were civilians, if there were any.

----

Anyway, whether i'm right or not

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Giancarlo · June 11, 2003, 11:35

Abbas better start kicking Hamas ass.

Because the peace process is not going to be derailed by the idiot actions of a criminal group.

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 11:37

didn't we just have 7 dead Palestinians the other day, without the actual target being hit?

why am I not surprised...

FrustratedPoet · June 11, 2003, 11:38

Well, you asked for it.

Shame that there seems to be no end to this cycle of violence.

oedo · June 11, 2003, 11:38

enough of kicking ass now!

Eli · June 11, 2003, 11:41

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
Well, you asked for it.

Well, sorry for not going on a swim to Cyprus.

DinoDoc · June 11, 2003, 11:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Fez
Abbas better start kicking Hamas ass.

If Israel keeps undercutting him, I don't think that he'll have the ability to win the resulting Palestinian civil war.

Eli · June 11, 2003, 11:42

FOX News

yes, I know)

The Fatah's Al Aqsa Martyrs brigade claimed responsibility, NOT Hamas. What are you going to say now FP?

Edit : According to the Mosques in Gaza City, the Hamas claimed responsibility. My mistake.

rmsharpe · June 11, 2003, 11:43

Bookmarked the thread, waiting for the anti-Semites to post here and blame Israel for the bombing.

Terrible stuff and I'm glad the raid was launched in Gaza. I hope they get those SOBs.

Edan · June 11, 2003, 11:44

And honestly, did anyone think Hamas wouldn't have thrown suicide bomers at Israel regardless of whether or not Israel tried to assassinate one of their leaders?

Edit: never mind, apparently it wasn't even Hamas...

Pekka · June 11, 2003, 11:46

What exactly has Arafat done to keep Hamas in the leash? The way I see it, Sharon can keep a leash on IDF, but there are several groups in Palestine that can't be controlled, or are not controlled, and that makes those groups far more dangerous to peace than IDF. The way I see it, is that Hamas acts, IDF reacts. There's no army in the world that wouldn't react, or then it's a crap army and crap leadership.

So Hamas needs to be either controlled or wiped out before there can be peace, as they don't have any intentions to stop terrorising Israeli citizens. I start calling Hamas freedom fighters when they act on IDF all the time, not citizens. So, what has Arafat done to control Hamas? Either he can control it, but is unwilling to, or he can't control it. In either case he is then unable to lead Palestine.

It is very clear some of these groups will never stop. They need to be controlled or destroyed. Destroying them seems to be a bit hard since everytime IDF reacts, innocent can get in the way, and that creates more support to those groups and more volunteers, and future members with a mission. So controlling them could be more wise at first at least... but is Arafat willing or able to do that?

Az · June 11, 2003, 11:46

Hi people, nice seeing you, albeit on this sad occasion.

I'd just like to point out that Abbas has specifically said, that he would NOT engage other palestinian organizations by force. So, if he won't do it, who will?

Bye.

Bereta_Eder · June 11, 2003, 11:47

Quote:

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Bookmarked the thread, waiting for the anti-Semites to post here and blame Israel for the bombing.

Terrible stuff and I'm glad the raid was launched in Gaza. I hope they get those SOBs.

dont know about any antisemites but you must be the first nazi jew to post

alva · June 11, 2003, 11:48

Don't you get fed up by this (talking to both sides here)

Time to try something new maybe...uhm, hé, try peace for a change

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 11:48

yes, 7, not 2

paiktis - similar to my thoughts, if not quite the same

Bereta_Eder · June 11, 2003, 11:50

its always because of misinformation
im sure iof rmshape saw the body of the 8 year old that israel army killed in that gaza raid he might sing a different tune that could lead to peace

then again he might not whoknows, who cares

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 11:54

i wonder what they're version for the moral justificaiton is, why anyone who blames Israel for direct or indirect guilt of such an attack must be an anti-semite... easily said, but can you actually make a point out of it?

Bereta_Eder · June 11, 2003, 11:56

well antisemitism exists and is to some extend a cause that some people are bend on blaming israel and to close their eyes on the terrorist attacks that it suffers.

FrustratedPoet · June 11, 2003, 11:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli
What are you going to say now FP?

I'm going to say that if both sides demonstrated that they were capable of not murdering each other for five minutes then it would be a lot easier to sympathise with the situation.

I'm not anti-Israel or pro-Palestine, but I consider an endless cycle of "You bastards, you killed our people - that means we must kill YOUR people" to be absolutely idiotic.

The apparent inability of either side to think anything other than they are the doing the Right Thing(tm) - and that the other side are Evil Terrorists(tm) - is impossible for me to understand.

The same kind of thing happens in Northern Ireland (a bit less often these days, thankfully) and it's just as stupid there. This kind of mentality is by no means reserved for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 11:57

I just love how in the same tone any opposition to Israeli expansionism (should there be any, this is not assumption of general omnipresence) is considered anti-zionism (zionism being the most flexible word in meaning that I have ever heard of) and then some come up with Mr King and his nice piece of wisdom that simplificates any anti-zionism to anti-semitism, as if anyone gave a sh!t 1. what MLK says and 2. especially when he doesn't reason it.

It's like the Bush doctrine. Just here it's be with us or be an anti-semite.

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 11:58

paiktis, that was not the point... you can't invert an implication, only an equation.

Eli · June 11, 2003, 11:59

Quote:

The apparent inability of either side to think anything other than they are the doing the Right Thing(tm) - and that the other side are Evil Terrorists(tm) - is impossible for me to understand.

Actually I agree with you on this point, but that puts most of the blame on the small uncoordinated cells of fanatical movements than on an organized army that gets it's orders from above and is influenced by world opinion and pressure.

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 12:00

Azazel - he probably said it because he doesn't have the means to do it. Support him. Instead of razing police stations, make it easier for him to gain control. Some of the money the US gives you could be helpful here.

And guys, stop destroying all the airports they build with OUR money

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 12:03

Eli, FP - but don't we know who actually is on the right side? I mean the very existence of the Israeli state cannot be undone, so it should be clear who the terrorists are. It's just a shame the population in the territories doesn't actually really oppose those cells. Must be lack of education there.

It's also a shame, though, how the population ("they", "the pals") is always set on one stage with the actual criminals whenever something gets blown up. And it's strange what all the infrastructural damage is for. Of course their police stations are not to hide bad guys, but in any civilized nation there'd be means to get evil guys out of a house without destroying the whole settlement. Think Jenin.

Eli · June 11, 2003, 12:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Azazel - he probably said it because he doesn't have the means to do it. Support him. Instead of razing police stations, make it easier for him to gain control. Some of the money the US gives you could be helpful here.

I have an idea!

Let's withdraw from all territories, give the Pal police guns, train the policemen, ignore illegal weapons shipments(we dont want to escalate the situation) and help them get their TV and Radio up and running so that they will use it to teach peace to their children.

Oh, right, havent we tried that in 1993? But I guess we should try again, 1000 dead Israelis and 2500 dead Pals is a small price to pay for the peace of the brave.

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 12:04

Oh, talking about Jenin, I was baffled how the action there was actually effective to some degree, there were no terracts for some time after that. Terrified and amused me at the same time.

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 12:07

You still sound like the 15 year old guy... who was ever talking about ignoring illegal shipments?

Of course the main priority has to be the elimination of the most evil cells.

But I suppose it's futile to argue anyway. You're just waiting for the S-guy to turn up.

Eli · June 11, 2003, 12:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
but in any civilized nation there'd be means to get evil guys out of a house without destroying the whole settlement. Think Jenin.

Are the German police force capable of entering a refugee camp, one of the most densest places in the world, knowing that every square meter in it is booby trapped and that hundreds of armed men guard it and will resist any arrests? What will you do, send in two doughnut-eating policemen to move from house to house and ask all terrorists to lie down their weapons and go to jail?

Edan · June 11, 2003, 12:11

One of the problems with Abbas is that he's coordinating every move with Arafat, which hardly puts Arafat out of the picture.

Ecthy · June 11, 2003, 12:12

In Germany, refugee camps can't be booby trapped because 1. there are no refugee camps, people live in cities here and 2. there are camps for asylum seekers, but it's not like they'd stay there longer than a day or 2 (no bullshit now, please) or they'd actually manage to get sh!t in there.