a new union jack?

Q Classic · June 12, 2003, 04:32

from bbc

Quote:

Rebranding puts black marks against UK flag

Britain's national flag - the union jack - has been given the makeover treatment, in the hope of reflecting a more modern society.

It's become the marketing executive's remedy for any organisation's ills. From BT to BP, the Labour Party to the Lottery, hardly a business or institution has escaped the rebranding bug.

Now moves are afoot to redesign that most sacred of British hallmarks - the union flag.

A campaign is being launched to modernise the red, white and blue flag by adding a touch of black to reflect multicultural Britain in the 21st Century.

The proposed new flag (see above) is the work of Nigel Turner, an enthusiastic fan of the UK's transformation into a multiracial society over the past 50 years.

Mr Turner has contacted MPs about his new design and has already received the backing of Lord Ahmed of Rotherham, who called it a "fantastic idea [for] celebrating diversity of the modern United Kingdom".

Mr Turner, who has called his campaign Reflag, believes his plan would reclaim the union jack from its negative associations, and silence that old skinhead chant: "There ain't no black in the union jack."

"If I flew the union jack from a flagpole in my garden, many people would see it as a racist statement," he says.

"I'm a glass half-full, rather than half-empty sort of person. It's time we made a positive statement about the progression of a multicultural and multiracial society."

400th anniversary

The union flag was first seen in 1606 and the version that we know today was drawn up by the College of Arms in 1801 to represent the Act of Union.

Mr Turner, 46, who is white, hopes to spark a debate on the flag. He would like to see a new design replace the current union jack for the flag's 400th anniversary in 2006.

"The proposed design does not mean throwing out all that has gone before, and it is clearly recognisable as the flag of the UK without saying something new."

But as makeovers go, even a designer as thick-skinned as Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen would think twice about treading into such perilous territory.

The so-called "union black" has already raised the ire of the Scottish. Tuesday's Scotsman newspaper said Mr Turner had "missed the point".

"The United Kingdom is not a firm which changes its corporate branding each time the management alters. The flag is an enduring symbol of unity which transcends politics and absorbs cultural change."

MSP Phil Gallie told the Scottish Parliament: "The suggestion that our flag should be redesigned is ridiculous tokenism and would do nothing to stamp out racism."

So what does Mr Turner need to do to make his flag official? The answer is not black and white, says flags expert Charles Ashburner.

"There are no laws governing the union flag. Primarily, it's the monarch's flag, but it has come to represent the UK through common usage.

"So to make it official, he just has to make people believe it's the official flag. It will never take the place of the union flag of course, but it could became a sort of quasi-official flag if enough people flew it."

any thoughts? i think it's silly, honestly. the current union jack, iirc, refers not to any specific race but to the union of wales, scotland, england, and ireland...

MikeH · June 12, 2003, 04:55

I don't know the UK flag/patriotism idea has been ruined by hooligan types but not sure what to do about it.

Dauphin · June 12, 2003, 05:09

Plain silliness.

MikeH · June 12, 2003, 05:13

Anyway even if I did think changing the flag was a good idea the one they have come up with is terrible. The whole "just add some black, then it's not racist" concept is really bad.

Q Classic · June 12, 2003, 05:16

i agree. especially since nobody in america is suggesting we add yellow, black, or purple to the stars and strips in order represent our diversity.

why would you?

Saras · June 12, 2003, 05:18

Some people just have too much spare time.

MikeH · June 12, 2003, 05:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
i agree. especially since nobody in america is suggesting we add yellow, black, or purple to the stars and strips in order represent our diversity.

why would you?

Well that's the other thing, not all minorities are black, and even then they aren't literally black.

I think this just comes down to a response to that racist chant "no black in the union jack". Best thing to do would not be to change the flag but lock up the racists or something.

Whaleboy · June 12, 2003, 05:24

Thats a silly idea. We have TOO MUCH REBRANDING

God what it is with PR these days, besides, flags, national symbols, patriotism, its entirely redundent these days, you'd have thought that we'd be less closed minded by now, but ooohhh no!

MikeH · June 12, 2003, 05:25

I think we should rebrand the UK as "Consignia"

Buck Birdseed · June 12, 2003, 06:13

I think we should rebrand it "United States of Europe, Administrative Sectors G, H and I".

DRoseDARs · June 12, 2003, 06:15

If that's all they're proposing to do to it, then I ask,

"Why bother?"

MikeH · June 12, 2003, 06:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
I think we should rebrand it "United States of Europe, Administrative Sectors G, H and I".

Can we rename it Union of Socialist States of Europe instead?

Buck Birdseed · June 12, 2003, 06:35

Yeah! "People's Republic of Europe Western Reeducation Camp and Centre For Applied Work Ethics".

MikeH · June 12, 2003, 06:44

European Nominal Government for the Leftist Alliance of National Dependencies

DRoseDARs · June 12, 2003, 06:45

Tingkai · June 12, 2003, 06:48

DRoseDARs: You need to add a gold line for the Brits from East Asia. Red, black and gold lines would also represent the Royal families German heritage. Maybe some green to represent India. Oh, and a white star smack dab in the middle to show that Britian is now a colony.

MikeH · June 12, 2003, 06:59

That's not DRoseDARs image, that's the flag they are talking about in the article.

FrustratedPoet · June 12, 2003, 07:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Crunch
Plain silliness.

On the contrary I think it's a rather advanced kind of silliness. The kind of silliness that only a nation of people as silly as the British could come up with. It's nice to know we're still world leaders in something.

Mercator · June 12, 2003, 08:06

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet

On the contrary I think it's a rather advanced kind of silliness. The kind of silliness that only a nation of people as silly as the British could come up with. It's nice to know we're still world leaders in something.

You must've forgotten about that new EU flag.

Q Classic · June 12, 2003, 08:09

they're changing the eu flag?

*End Is Forever* · June 12, 2003, 08:15

No, they aren't changing the EU flag.

It must take a particularly easily-offended person to get all worked up about the colours on a flag.

Mercator · June 12, 2003, 08:19

I sure as hell hope not:

(the news story from about a year ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1974721.stm)

*End Is Forever* · June 12, 2003, 08:32

It's also not true.

alva · June 12, 2003, 08:40

Wouldn't a new flag (

) be bad for your souvereighnity?(sp?) as it obviously would do by joining Europe?

Q Classic · June 12, 2003, 09:01

was that the proposal? good god, it looks like someone messed up their barcode...

Mercator · June 12, 2003, 09:04

So the UK has no reason to change a flag and they come up with a decent design. The EU had a decent reason and came up with a horrific design.

Paul Hanson · June 12, 2003, 09:05

It's a combination of all the colours of every flag of every member state of the EU, and was designed by someone with no common sense.

Q Classic · June 12, 2003, 09:11

as is evident. compared to that mess, this proposed modified union jack looks absolutely gorgeous.

the former georgia state flag was similarly atrocious.

Dauphin · June 12, 2003, 09:17

The flags that I like most are those with a Union Jack in the corner. My favourite being the White Ensign.

Saras · June 12, 2003, 10:00

BC, who are these babes in your avatars?