Civs in Civ3: Conquests - Page 5

Panag · July 5, 2003, 16:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

Um, panag, sorry but despite your love of all thing military ICBMs and SLBMs are not the same thing military-wise

You will never see a military comparison chart which lists ICBMs as representative of all other types of warheads. If you want to say all nukes, you say simply, Nuclear Warheads which encompasses ICBMs, SLBM, air-dropped bombs, tactical missiles, etc etc etc..

To put it simply panag: do you think Isreal would win in a nuclear exchange against Britain or France?

hi ,

every slbm is an icbm , .....

however not every icbm is not an slbm , .....

we are talking "general terms"

and as for your ignorant remark at the bottom of your post , ..... *sigh*

have a nice day

Master Zen · July 5, 2003, 16:45

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

know what we have before you write about Israel , .....

we do have ICBM's , both sub , land and air launchable , .... with very long ranges , veeeeery long ones , .....

and as it may be , the M1 or M2 or any other tank in the world for that matter still does not protect its crew like the Merkava , .... engine in front , special compartments , etc , ..... it would be cheaper for Israel to buy the american build M2 , yet we dont do it , you know why , because our design is all about survival , survival on the battlefield , and thats one lesson all those other countries still have to learn , ......

so Merkava versus Abraham's , ..... Merkava any day

foreign build planes , ..... sure , they dont want us to build any more military planes , ...... IAI , has sold thousands of civilian planes btw , and happens to be the uncontested market leader in its class , ....

have a nice day

This post just shows your utter ignorance of military matters.

First of all, Israel does not have SLBMs. If they do, please tell me the missle and submarine class which deploys them. In fact, neither of Israel's two classes of deployed missiles even has intercontinental range, thus it is incorrect to say that those missiles are even ICBMs, but rather SRBMs, short-range ballistic missiles. or MRBMs, medium range (I'm referring to the Jericho class).

Now about tanks. The M2 is not a tank. It's an Infantry Fighting Vehicle designed to transport troops and let them fight in it. It is equipped with a a 25mm gun and TOW anti-tank missiles. That does not make it a tank.

As for the Merkava, yes, it is the best protected tank in the world. But that is not to say it is the best. It is the best for Israel since it was designed for urban combat in which crew protection and a rear entry/exit is vital to avoid losses when the tank crew is exposed. So, yes, if I were an Israeli commander, I would take the Merkava over any other tank.

However, you seem to imply that the Merkava is universally better than any other and this is wrong. The M1, the Leopard, Leclerc, Challanger 2, etc., this new generation of western tanks were not designed solely for urban combat but rather combat in the more open terrain of Europe rather than the rubble of Gaza or the West Bank. I would take an M1 or a Leopard ANY day over the Merkava in open terrain.

As for aircraft, the idea you built up an aircraft capability from scratch is also false. The Kfir is based on the French Mirage...

Finally, I am not intending to slam Israel's armed forces in any way or it's military industry which is admirable for such a small nation. And yes, the Merkava is a great tank, no doubt about it. Still, some of your claims are simply too ludicrious to be taken seriously.

Panag · July 5, 2003, 16:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

This post just shows your utter ignorance of military matters.

First of all, Israel does not have SLBMs. If they do, please tell me the missle and submarine class which deploys them. In fact, neither of Israel's two classes of deployed missiles even has intercontinental range, thus it is incorrect to say that those missiles are even ICBMs, but rather SRBMs, short-range ballistic missiles. or MRBMs, medium range (I'm referring to the Jericho class).

Now about tanks. The M2 is not a tank. It's an Infantry Fighting Vehicle designed to transport troops and let them fight in it. It is equipped with a a 25mm gun and TOW anti-tank missiles. That does not make it a tank.

As for the Merkava, yes, it is the best protected tank in the world. But that is not to say it is the best. It is the best for Israel since it was designed for urban combat in which crew protection and a rear entry/exit is vital to avoid losses when the tank crew is exposed. So, yes, if I were an Israeli commander, I would take the Merkava over any other tank.

However, you seem to imply that the Merkava is universally better than any other and this is wrong. The M1, the Leopard, Leclerc, Challanger 2, etc., this new generation of western tanks were not designed solely for urban combat but rather combat in the more open terrain of Europe rather than the rubble of Gaza or the West Bank. I would take an M1 or a Leopard ANY day over the Merkava in open terrain.

As for aircraft, the idea you built up an aircraft capability from scratch is also false. The Kfir is based on the French Mirage...

Finally, I am not intending to slam Israel's armed forces in any way or it's military industry which is admirable for such a small nation. And yes, the Merkava is a great tank, no doubt about it. Still, some of your claims are simply too ludicrious to be taken seriously.

hi ,

m2 = abrahams of the sond generation

as for us not having slbm , ....and therest of your comments

have a nice day

Panag · July 5, 2003, 17:19

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

m2 = abrahams of the second generation

as for us not having slbm , ....and the rest of your comments

have a nice day

edit ; typo

Master Zen · July 5, 2003, 17:24

The M2 is not a second generation abrahams, that's the M1A2...

oh well, as usually it is pointless to argue with you. I'd just like to say that Mexico also has SLBMs, our submarines roam the seas and oceans of the world. No-one knows of course, not any respectable military journal or foreign intelligence agencies either. It's the best kept secret in the world... well, besides that of Nicaragua's SLBMs too...

have a nice day, I'm outta here

Panag · July 5, 2003, 17:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen
The M2 is not a second generation abrahams, that's the M1A2...

oh well, as usually it is pointless to argue with you. I'd just like to say that Mexico also has SLBMs, our submarines roam the seas and oceans of the world. No-one knows of course, not any respectable military journal or foreign intelligence agencies either. It's the best kept secret in the world... well, besides that of Nicaragua's SLBMs too...

have a nice day, I'm outta here

hi ,

when i write m2 and i mean abrahams two its my problem not yours , ......

you have not slbm's whatsoever , ...... in Mexico

and yes its pointless to argue with you , ......

have a nice day

Schee · July 5, 2003, 21:18

Quote:

However, you seem to imply that the Merkava is universally better than any other and this is wrong. The M1, the Leopard, Leclerc, Challanger 2, etc., this new generation of western tanks were not designed solely for urban combat but rather combat in the more open terrain of Europe rather than the rubble of Gaza or the West Bank. I would take an M1 or a Leopard ANY day over the Merkava in open terrain

Wait... he was talking of a combat in Civ3 ! Everyone knows that even a spearman could destroy any western tank in Civ3, so a Merkava would be fine

Panag · July 6, 2003, 05:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Schee

Wait... he was talking of a combat in Civ3 ! Everyone knows that even a spearman could destroy any western tank in Civ3, so a Merkava would be fine

hi ,

when that happens , just think of a guy with a lot of guts and loads of luck , ..... imagine he placed a limpet mine or something , .......

have a nice day

David Murray · July 6, 2003, 08:40

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

we did ourselves without any ones help , .....

have a nice day

Is that your final answer?

Panag · July 6, 2003, 08:44

Quote:

Originally posted by David Murray

Is that your final answer?

hi ,

building three combat airplanes , ...... well that aint bad is it , no to mention a couple dual use planes , .....

have a nice day

Patroklos · July 6, 2003, 12:26

Master Zen pretty much put this thread back in perspective. Isreal is a great nation with an admirable military, but your claims panag, are absolutely ridiculous. I would like you to go find Jane's Fighting Vehicles, Jan's Fighting Ships, and Jan's Fighting Aircraft and back up what you say (or any other respected military publication). The development of SLBMs alone by the United States and then their deployment and maintainance is several times the GNP of Isreal, it is not possible for you to have them. That is also true for you "ICBM"s, since the missiles you refer to are barely more capable than a SCUB and thus MRBMs (If you think not, they point me to you obviously flawed military publication that says otherwise).

Have pride in you military by all means, no matter where your from. But don't make outrageous claims like that are obviously wrong, especially with nothing to back them up.

I still vote for the Souix, Kmer, and a Sub Sahara Africa civ, for the sake of filling in the world map. (We probobly need another South American civ as well)

Panag · July 6, 2003, 15:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Patroklos
Master Zen pretty much put this thread back in perspective. Isreal is a great nation with an admirable military, but your claims panag, are absolutely ridiculous. I would like you to go find Jane's Fighting Vehicles, Jan's Fighting Ships, and Jan's Fighting Aircraft and back up what you say (or any other respected military publication). The development of SLBMs alone by the United States and then their deployment and maintainance is several times the GNP of Isreal, it is not possible for you to have them. That is also true for you "ICBM"s, since the missiles you refer to are barely more capable than a SCUB and thus MRBMs (If you think not, they point me to you obviously flawed military publication that says otherwise).

Have pride in you military by all means, no matter where your from. But don't make outrageous claims like that are obviously wrong, especially with nothing to back them up.

I still vote for the Souix, Kmer, and a Sub Sahara Africa civ, for the sake of filling in the world map. (We probobly need another South American civ as well)

hi ,

if you would have seens janes , then you know how to write Israel's name correct to start with , ......

two , you would have to pay to see the proof , and then you can take your words back , .....

if you can find janes on the net , you can find the rest , ......

so dont post about things you know zilch about , especially when you have nothing to back it up , ......

have a nice day

Master Zen · July 6, 2003, 16:58

actually panag, your ludicrous claims are precisely the ones which you have failed to back up. Care to give us some specs on Israel's suppossed ICBMS and SLBMs? Oh wait, you must be some super-secret Mossad agent and if you told us, you'd have to kill us...

(that's ok, I wouldn't have given you the specs on Mexico's Tequila II-class boomers either...)

Panag · July 6, 2003, 17:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen
actually panag, your ludicrous claims are precisely the ones which you have failed to back up. Care to give us some specs on Israel's suppossed ICBMS and SLBMs? Oh wait, you must be some super-secret Mossad agent and if you told us, you'd have to kill us...

(that's ok, I wouldn't have given you the specs on Mexico's Tequila II-class boomers either...)

keep your stupid remarks and comments to yourself , and out of a game thread , .......

we have had this conversation before and you where provided with the evidence then , so dont act in this thread as your nose bleeds , .......

since you can post here , since you have an IQ thats higher the 2 , therefore it seems very possible and most likely that you can find and use an internet search engine and find what you need , .......

and no , mexico has no nuclear weapons what-so-ever , ......

Harovan · July 6, 2003, 17:11

Considering the fact, that the next 2 continents are very close (Africa can be hit by a short range missile, Europe by a medium range missile), the term "intercontinental" doesn't mean much.

Overall this thread is hilarious. One trolls about a microcountry being a global superpower, and all others take it serious and feed this troll ad infinitum.

Master Zen · July 6, 2003, 17:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

Overall this thread is hilarious. One trolls about a microcountry being a global superpower, and all others take it serious and feed this troll ad infinitum.

Of course we know he's trolling, anyone who insists twice that the M2 is an abrams HAS to be trolling

heck, I'm even learning myself... beware those Tequila II subs!

Tassadar500 · July 6, 2003, 17:40

I'm not a Mossad agent. Who said that? Why would you think that?

Panag · July 6, 2003, 17:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

Of course we know he's trolling, anyone who insists twice that the M2 is an abrams HAS to be trolling

heck, I'm even learning myself... beware those Tequila II subs!

you knwo darn good i meant mark two , but you shall not get me anymore , what was i thinking , clicking that read what this poster has posted , .....

you know nect to ziclch about military hardware , you always try to get in a spamfest , but yeah , you are still angry aint ya , .....

and how could you possibly know what one means when he posts X , oh yeah forgot , you know all , .....

but you cant find an internet search engine , ......

why would i care to post an explanation to some-one who acts the way you do , ....

Patroklos · July 9, 2003, 20:38

Panag,

Bieng that every US warship and naval base has extensive literature on everything every country has in its arsenal, especially Naval hardware (we are in fact, well, the Navy) and especially on the countries we have treaty obligations to and joint operations with, and also that one such archive I will have to pass on the way back to my room after I finish this reply, I have more than enough access to good information, Janes was just mentioned because you might have access to it.

The registry for Israel has no nuclear submarines, whether by propulsion or armament, and we would know as we a) build b) design c) sell d) pay for or e) give you the intelligence that lets most of your weak (relative) patrol boats and diesels survive if you were ever in another war, a la most of your other wars. And if your weapons came from our NATO allies, well, all our registries are the same. This comes from one of us "military types," as opposed to one of those "non military types," ie you Panag. I am still waiting for you to name a publication that says anything remotely close to what you say, Jane's not bieng one.

Again, I point back to Master Zen's post that is absolute truth on the matter.

Now back to the actual topic of this post, in good spirit because this is starting to sound ugly....

Souix, Kmer, Sub Sahara African tribe, for reasons mentioned above in many posts.

Panag · July 9, 2003, 20:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Patroklos
Panag,

Bieng that every US warship and naval base has extensive literature on everything every country has in its arsenal, especially Naval hardware (we are in fact, well, the Navy) and especially on the countries we have treaty obligations to and joint operations with, and also that one such archive I will have to pass on the way back to my room after I finish this reply, I have more than enough access to good information, Janes was just mentioned because you might have access to it.

The registry for Israel has no nuclear submarines, whether by propulsion or armament, and we would know as we a) build b) design c) sell d) pay for or e) give you the intelligence that lets most of your weak (relative) patrol boats and diesels survive if you were ever in another war, a la most of your other wars. And if your weapons came from our NATO allies, well, all our registries are the same. This comes from one of us "military types," as opposed to one of those "non military types," ie you Panag. I am still waiting for you to name a publication that says anything remotely close to what you say, Jane's not bieng one.

Again, I point back to Master Zen's post that is absolute truth on the matter.

Now back to the actual topic of this post, in good spirit because this is starting to sound ugly....

Souix, Kmer, Sub Sahara African tribe, for reasons mentioned above in many posts.

hi ,

who said anything about nuclear submarines , ......

he knows what this is about , this has nothing to do with Israel being able to launch a nuclear tipped missile from its submarines or ships , or planes , .......

and he has seen the prove , ...... anyone who uses an internet searchenegine with the right words can see that , .......

and if you would have seen janes you would know that , ....

have a nice day

History Guy · July 9, 2003, 20:55

The new Gamespot Preview is very, very informative, but as for new civs, it only gives us hints. (That is, unless you want info on strictly scenario-type civs.)

There are two new leaderheads and two new UUs pictured. One is undoubtedly the Three-Man Chariot of the Hittites, another pictures a distinctly Iberian-looking pikeman, who may or may not be a UU for a civ. So, it may be that the Portuguese are in. Also, a leaderhead shows an Incan/Mayan leaderhead (probably the former) and another leader who looks to me to be Polynesian.

Chilean President™ · July 9, 2003, 21:00

Quote:

but as for new civs, it only gives us hints.

The Dutch is a new civ.
And the leaderhead shows the Inca Leader.

History Guy · July 9, 2003, 21:10

I suspected that it was the Inca leader.

How do you know about the Dutch?

Chilean President™ · July 9, 2003, 21:16

I read it in the Gamespot preview, let me check it out again.

and BTW, what is this, a UU from Portugal?

History Guy · July 9, 2003, 21:21

Do you mean in reference to the WWII Scenario? Other than that, I don't see anything about the Netherlands, Holland, or the Dutch in general.

As for the Portuguese, that's what I was thinking.

Chilean President™ · July 9, 2003, 21:29

Yeah you're right, I read it where they explain the WWII Scenario (I think..

) anyway Ican't find it now

check this out:

Quote:

Originally posted by Gamespot
There are seven new playable civilizations, and with the addition of two new civilization types, agricultural and seafaring

New traits!!

History Guy · July 9, 2003, 21:35

Aye! All the civs have been refigured to match!

Also, fascism and fundamentalism are back!

Chilean President™ · July 9, 2003, 21:39

have you seen this.. look the units on the right, they seem 'too japanese', perhaps C3C brings unique graphics for each civ.

History Guy · July 9, 2003, 21:46

This is from the Sengoku/Feudal Japan scenario.

Chilean President™ · July 9, 2003, 21:56

Besides that, the graphics could be used in single player games, right?