Christianity Corner - Resurrection

Jon Miller · June 19, 2003, 23:44

I have been thinking about this concept for a while

now I happen to beleive in the Resurrection (As in after we die, we will be Resurrected in the Earth made new) - (because God is this all powerful guy, so why not?)

now there was a period of time (rather recent in fact), where, while I did sorta wish to live forever (be resurrected after my death), the thought that I might not (too sinful, would not get along well in heaven) bothered me a little but I sorta had a "well, whatever happens happens" sort of view point on it

basically being resurrected was not too important to me, it was just an extra cherry for you if you loved God and would like it there

after talking to my brother (very religious) on the way back from my father's funeral I changed my mind (to put it more bluntly, I argued, and lost) and now feel that the resurrection (of people) is important

now I have heard it accused that people are christians just because of the comfort of an afterlife

but I also know many christians who do not really beleive in heaven or an earth made new or any other form of afterlife

and I was a christian (I think) when the afterlife was not important to me

I was talking to a freind (who is very evangelical) and when she said why she followed God, the resurrection did not place itself in her statements (basically she followed God because He is God and she loves him)

so basically I am wondering

if you are christian

do you beleive in the physical resurrection?

and if so, is it important for your reasons to follow Christ? (not to beleive in Him, but to follow Him)

Jon Miller
BTW I was reading 1st Corinthians 15

History Guy · June 19, 2003, 23:53

Jon,

Interesting question, but an easy one to answer.

I've never had trouble believing in God or resurrection, but that's just me.

The idea of going off to live with God, eternally praising Him seems like a lovely idea to me, and since I believe in God, and I believe that He is alive and that He is outside of space and time itself, and that He is all-powerful, I have always thought that if He could create us, there is no reason that He could not also grant us eternal life after this shadow that we call "life" is over and done with.

It always seemed also for me that living forever in heaven seemed a heck of a lot better than winding off in hell...

MRT144 · June 19, 2003, 23:55

why do i imagine a over the top gay dude in a cartigan sweater and wave haircut hosting "christianity corner"

monkspider · June 19, 2003, 23:56

Great post Jon!

There is no real afterlife as such, the afterlife as we know it is "real life", what we are doing here on earth is but a mere sideshow of sorts, a brief episode in our learning. It is difficult to put into words, but we as humans are too caught up in this life, thinking of it as the main event, so to speak, and the afterlife as a "cherry on the cake", as you say. So if you're asking if I believe in a ressurection after this current life as monkspider, the Kansas inhabitant, I would say, of course, it nearly goes without saying. I just don't really think of it as ressurection, per se, but as a, how can I put this, a return to the default postion. As I said, words are so cumbersome sometimes.

Why do I follow Jesus? He is the greatest teacher, and the most enlightened soul to ever walk the earth. He lived such a perfect life that he became one with God, and literally conquered death. He helped create a paradigm for us all to follow. Who could possibly be someone better to follow?

PS- I am sorry to hear about your dad Jon. I offer my condolensces.

History Guy · June 19, 2003, 23:57

I don't know. I guess you might have been taking too much tea again.

Jon Miller · June 19, 2003, 23:58

Quote:

Originally posted by History Guy
Jon,

Interesting question, but an easy one to answer.

I've never had trouble believing in God or resurrection, but that's just me.

The idea of going off to live with God, eternally praising Him seems like a lovely idea to me, and since I believe in God, and I believe that He is alive and that He is outside of space and time itself, and that He is all-powerful, I have always thought that if He could create us, there is no reason that He could not also grant us eternal life after this shadow that we call "life" is over and done with.

It always seemed also for me that living forever in heaven seemed a heck of a lot better than winding off in hell...

ok, you answered my first question

what about my second

how important is the resurrection of the dead to your decision to follow Christ

Jon Miller
- who doesn't beleive in hell (as often depicted, if anything can be called hell it is this earth)

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:01

BTW

my references to an afterlife are merely the use of english terms

I do not beleive that there is any existance divorced from our physical bodies

Jon Miller

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:03

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
Great post Jon!

There is no real afterlife as such, the afterlife as we know it is "real life", what we are doing here on earth is but a mere sideshow of sorts, a brief episode in our learning. It is difficult to put into words, but we as humans are too caught up in this life, thinking of it as the main event, so to speak, and the afterlife as a "cherry on the cake", as you say. So if you're asking if I believe in a ressurection after this current life as monkspider, the Kansas inhabitant, I would say, of course, it nearly goes without saying. I just don't really think of it as ressurection, per se, but as a, how can I put this, a return to the default postion. As I said, words are so cumbersome sometimes.

Why do I follow Jesus? He is the greatest teacher, and the most enlightened soul to ever walk the earth. He lived such a perfect life that he became one with God, and literally conquered death. He helped create a paradigm for us all to follow. Who could possibly be someone better to follow?

PS- I am sorry to hear about your dad Jon. I offer my condolensces.

thanks

I can see a little budhism in your thoughts, I think

and I understand your reason for following Christ, it is similiar to my own

Jon Miller

History Guy · June 20, 2003, 00:06

As far as hell goes, I've never had much trouble believing in that, either. I've always suspected, though, that it was something much nastier than being poked about by devils and having your feet set on fire... No, it is total isolation from God.

How important? Well, I suppose it is quite important. It isn't the only reason, of course. As I said, though, I've never had trouble believing in the Christian God.

I suppose, as you say about your father, the idea of loved ones living forever is a comfort, and that certainly helps, but it isn't all.

Shi Huangdi · June 20, 2003, 00:10

When each of us die, we face our particular judgement from God. Their our souls is given an individual judgement from God. If we are not damned, then our soul will face eternal life.

Ressurection of the body will not come for us until the General Judgement, at the end of the world. (this is best depicted under Matthew with the sheeps and goats speech). There we will be reunited with our physical bodies and stand in judgement before God.

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:10

actually I am not at all sure that my father will live again forever in comfort

if he would be happy, I would hope he would though

Jon Miller

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
When each of us die, we face our particular judgement from God. Their our souls is given an individual judgement from God. If we are not damned, then our soul will face eternal life.

Ressurection of the body will not come for us until the General Judgement, at the end of the world. (this is best depicted under Matthew with the sheeps and goats speech). There we will be reunited with our physical bodies and stand in judgement before God.

second question

is the resurrection important for your reason to be a christian?

Jon Miller

monkspider · June 20, 2003, 00:13

JM: Not at all. When I was younger, yes, but now, no.

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:15

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
JM: Not at all. When I was younger, yes, but now, no.

is this in reference to my budhism comment?

Jon Miller

Shi Huangdi · June 20, 2003, 00:16

"
Jon Miller
- who doesn't beleive in hell (as often depicted, if anything can be called hell it is this earth)"

This reminds me monkspider, you didn't reply to my last post in your Hell thread. Ah well, we can discuss here.

Unfortunately some people get caught thinking Hell is some place with fire and brimstone where men in red tights poke you with pitchforks if God gets mad at you. That is not the correct way to think about, rather, Hell could be described as a rejection of God. God gave us free will, and if we choose not to love him and follow his teachings, he won't force us to be with him. Hence there is Hell, well described by History Guy as a place of total isolation from God, for people who choose to reject God.

Ben Kenobi · June 20, 2003, 00:17

Quote:

do you beleive in the physical resurrection?

and if so, is it important for your reasons to follow Christ?

Yes, I do, for a long time I knew God in a fuzzy sense, but I had no idea of Jesus' role. When I finally read the resurrection account, that made it clear to me that Jesus is God, everyone else is just falliable human teachings.

As for the actual experience of the afterlife, I look forward to the flesh falling away, and having a body that does not decay. It's very comforting for me.

How is the rest of your family doing?

Sava · June 20, 2003, 00:18

I believe every human being born to be a unique individual. I do not believe that people have died and come back.

Shi Huangdi · June 20, 2003, 00:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Miller

second question

is the resurrection important for your reason to be a christian?

Jon Miller

Of the body or of the soul? I would suppose so yes, though the main reason I am Christian is because I believe it to be the truth.

monkspider · June 20, 2003, 00:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Miller

is this in reference to my budhism comment?

Jon Miller

Oh I dunno, I admire a great deal of buddhist thought, particularly the Tibetan variety, but I don't like to think of label myself as such. I just think of my beliefs as my beliefs.

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:19

I beleive in that sort of hell

but I don't beleive that you exist there forever (and I still go by my comment that it is here on earth)

basically, my beleive is, if you die and are not resurrected to be with God, you are just left not existing

and yes I beleive in free will, I beleive that people can reject God

Jon Miller

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
I believe every human being born to be a unique individual. I do not believe that people have died and come back.

the only person I beleive have done so so far is Chirst

(a resurrection, not a rebirth)

Jon Miller

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:21

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider

Oh I dunno, I admire a great deal of buddhist thought, particularly the Tibetan variety, but I don't like to think of label myself as such. I just think of my beliefs as my beliefs.

that's cool

I actually think that a lot of western religious have touches of eastern thought in them now

Jon Miller

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:24

Quote:

Originally posted by obiwan18

Yes, I do, for a long time I knew God in a fuzzy sense, but I had no idea of Jesus' role. When I finally read the resurrection account, that made it clear to me that Jesus is God, everyone else is just falliable human teachings.

As for the actual experience of the afterlife, I look forward to the flesh falling away, and having a body that does not decay. It's very comforting for me.

How is the rest of your family doing?

I have no wish to live forever as I am now (it has notthing to do with anything physical)

as far as I know they are doing fine

Jon Miller

Shi Huangdi · June 20, 2003, 00:24

Sorry about the continued posts, but I just caught this here:

"Why do I follow Jesus? He is the greatest teacher, and the most enlightened soul to ever walk the earth. He lived such a perfect life that he became one with God, and literally conquered death. "

Jesus being one with God was a result of him being God's son and a divine person, and the perfect life flowed from that. It is not the other away around, he did not start as a human and become one with God as a result of that. It's kind of important to being a Christian.

Sava · June 20, 2003, 00:24

Quote:

the only person I beleive have done so so far is Chirst

The pragmatist I am, I cannot justify such a belief without evidence. Doubts of such events are further compounded by the following:
how long ago said events "occured"
the authors of literature associated with events
the corrupt institution(s) who have passed the message down
the existence of more plausible and practical explanations

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:26

I don't believe in the resurrection and thus beleive in God

I beleive in God, so the resurrection is perfectly beleivable

Jon Miller

Sava · June 20, 2003, 00:27

Quote:

Jesus being one with God

a mistaken conclusion... disbelief aside, even if one were to believe in Christianity, this would not be true...

keep in mind I was raised in the Orthodox church...

Jon Miller · June 20, 2003, 00:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Sorry about the continued posts, but I just caught this here:

"Why do I follow Jesus? He is the greatest teacher, and the most enlightened soul to ever walk the earth. He lived such a perfect life that he became one with God, and literally conquered death. "

Jesus being one with God was a result of him being God's son and a divine person, and the perfect life flowed from that. It is not the other away around, he did not start as a human and become one with God as a result of that. It's kind of important to being a Christian.

that is actually what I thought was a little Budhist, but I do not mean for people to get into arguments

I just am interested in people's thoughts

Jon Miller

Sava · June 20, 2003, 00:28

Quote:

I beleive in God, so the resurrection is perfectly beleivable

The belief in a higher power isn't necessary mistaken... just unprovable. But since one cannot see evidence of such a beings active influence... to extrapolate upon that belief would be wrong.

monkspider · June 20, 2003, 00:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"
Unfortunately some people get caught thinking Hell is some place with fire and brimstone where men in red tights poke you with pitchforks if God gets mad at you. That is not the correct way to think about, rather, Hell could be described as a rejection of God. God gave us free will, and if we choose not to love him and follow his teachings, he won't force us to be with him. Hence there is Hell, well described by History Guy as a place of total isolation from God, for people who choose to reject God.

Sure Shi, sorry, I went to bed and totally forgot about that thread. Anyhoo, I'm glad you don't think of hell as the stereotypical "lake of fire" place. That's just sillyness. So your definition of hell is complete seperation from God? Interesting, interesting. You're on your way.

What you say is true, from a certain point of view. Man can't ever be seperated from God, as God is an intrinsic part of all of us. We can't be seperate from God anymore than snow can be seperate from a snowman. But, in what could possibly be the closest thing to hell that we can experience, we desire to be seperate from God, because we are too ashamed to face him, although it's impossible to ever be completely seperate.

As for people rejecting God, well, what makes you think people can reject God?