Why Do Women Have Breasts? - Page 2

Lorizael · June 22, 2003, 12:52

When I sit down and think about it, I always think it's really funny that men are so attracted to lumps of fat. But that detracts from the fun, so I never stay on that line of thought for very long.

Dr Strangelove · June 22, 2003, 13:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Velociryx

Doc Strangelove nailed it. For an excellent, exploration into that, read Desmon Morris' "The Naked Ape." (he goes on to say that the same line of thinking is why, even today, there is an almost primal fascination with women painting their lips bright, vibrant shades of red, and why pouty lips are considered "sexy." (I'm sure it won't take most of you but half a second to draw your own conclusions there).

Both this, and the development of fleshy brests were designed to "draw the male's attention 'round to the front" as Morris put it.

As a milk-providing apparatus, the human female breast is actually quite poorly designed, requiring substantial work and risk to human infants (as compared to say, female chimpanzee breasts....thus, they (the breast of the human female) must have evolved with some other purpose in mind.

-=Vel=-

D****t, that Morris guy stold another of my ideas!

Inverse Icarus · June 22, 2003, 13:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Gatekeeper

Aww, I bet Ming's heart will melt when he sees the beautiful picture of motherhood that you posted, Dissident. But then you'd still have to hop rah's heart melts, too.

Gatekeeper

rah and ming are simply alter egos in the same body. if ming likes it, rah will hate it.

but if ming's heart melts first, rahs heart will already be liquified, so, um, i dunno.

Lefty Scaevola · June 22, 2003, 13:09

Boobs were created in a plot by evil male chauvisnists to weaken women militarily. Big tits interfer with them drawing bows and present increased target area, with no added benefit, to be cut by swords.

Dr Strangelove · June 22, 2003, 13:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Boobs were created in a plot by evil male chauvisnists to weaken women militarily. Big tits interfer with them drawing bows and present increased target area, with no added benefit, to be cut by swords.

You'd cut a woman's breast off with a sword? I don't know which tribe you're descended from Lefty, but I'm utterly positive it's not one of mine!

Neutrino · June 22, 2003, 13:55

The development of breasts in human females was probably a result of Darwinian sexual selection working on the existing mammalian genome. Individuals that display the trait(s) that the opposite sex find attractive will be passed onto offspring. Those who lack the traits will likely not mate.

Urban Ranger · June 22, 2003, 14:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Velociryx
Doc Strangelove nailed it. For an excellent, exploration into that, read Desmon Morris' "The Naked Ape."

Desmon Morris is completely off his rockers on this one. Don't forget, the Great Apes and humans share a common ancestor, but we don't come from the Great Apes. The feeling theory is much closer to the truth. Since we can have sex all the time, that means women need to feed the babies at all times. Hence, they have breasts all year around, instead of just seasonal.

Besides, Morris was trying to explain why (most) men are fixated about women's breasts, not why they have them biologically. He is a behavioural scientist, not a biologist.

Dis · June 22, 2003, 14:37

I need to address breasts being made naturally selected for men to find attractive.

It would be safe to assume men found women attractive no matter what size their breasts were, or we would not be here. The argements above assume women at some point in history had small breasts, and they evolved big ones. I disagree. Men were just as attracted to women with small breasts, or they wouldn't have reproduced in sufficient numbers to sustain the human population.

Also many populations have small breasts. I think diet and environment are factors there. Many asian women have small breasts for example. While european and americans tend to have larger breasts. Although I can't fully explain why african women have large breasts- for their nutrition can be poor depending on where they live.

Neutrino · June 22, 2003, 14:49

There are many possible factors, including genetic drift due to isolation events, that may contribute to women's breast size.

My theory does not assume that women had small breasts to begin with; it assumes that males in general prefer larger ones to a certain extent. Over time, the genotypes for larger breasts will be selected for. Perhaps the size of breasts indicated how healthy a particular female was. There does not need to be a large population of humans to begin with.

But given our present knowledge on this subject, it will be very difficult to determine the exact cause, if any.

Populations with different breast sizes may have undergone some change specific to their population, but dietary factors cannot be ruled out.

Starchild · June 22, 2003, 14:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Boddington's

Explain this.

All the Y chromosome does is tell other genes to masculanise the body. It's got one active gene and a bunch of junk DNA that's gotten dumped there. All the interesting stuff is on the X chromosome. A person born with only an X chromosome or an unfunctioning Y chromosome will be biologically female. You need an X chromosome to live but you only need one.

There's also lots of other stuff like how the X chromosome and the Y one are at a state of genetic war since it's to the advantage of the X genes to mutate so that it benefits females even if it hurts males since genes on an X chromosome spend most of their time in female carriers. But interloci warfare isn't something I can quote off the top of my head.

Soul Survivor · June 22, 2003, 14:58

......because even god can only listen to a woman for so long

DanS · June 22, 2003, 14:59

Both this, and the development of fleshy brests were designed to "draw the male's attention 'round to the front" as Morris put it.

The problem with this theory is that in many societies, people didn't have sex from the front, but rather from the behind.

Ted Striker · June 22, 2003, 14:59

Fun bags!!!!

Gatekeeper · June 22, 2003, 16:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Starchild
All the Y chromosome does is tell other genes to masculanise the body. It's got one active gene and a bunch of junk DNA that's gotten dumped there. All the interesting stuff is on the X chromosome.

The latest research indicates otherwise. The Y chromosome, while smaller than its genetic mate, the X chromosome, is supposed to be a palindrome. IOW, it's capable of self-repairing itself by simply folding over and exchanging genetic sequences as necessary. So, in essence, the Y chromosome doesn't necessarily need the X chromosome for much of anything, which is why only the tips of the X and Y are capable of exchanging DNA information. Also, the Y chromosome is more prone to genetic mutations than the X, and it's these changes that drive a good part of our evolution — they're introduced, permanently, into the human genome when the Y- or X-bearing sperm unites with the X-bearing egg.

Quote:

A person born with only an X chromosome or an unfunctioning Y chromosome will be biologically female. You need an X chromosome to live but you only need one.

I was under the impression that you needed XX or XY in order to function. Any other combination simply won't do.

Quote:

There's also lots of other stuff like how the X chromosome and the Y one are at a state of genetic war since it's to the advantage of the X genes to mutate so that it benefits females even if it hurts males since genes on an X chromosome spend most of their time in female carriers. But interloci warfare isn't something I can quote off the top of my head.

See my first statement regarding genetics. I'm not expert, though, just relating some of what I've read as of late.

Gatekeeper

Velociryx · June 22, 2003, 16:09

Dan, true 'nuff, but the paralells are both obvious and compelling. Add to that, the fact that it's a pattern we've seen repeated in nature in other creatures and it's a pretty solid idea.

-=Vel=-

Starchild · June 22, 2003, 16:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
I was under the impression that you needed XX or XY in order to function. Any other combination simply won't do.
Gatekeeper

There's a genetic condition where a child only has one X chromosome. Physically, it's a girl, can't remember if they are fertile or not.

Also, depending on if the X chromosome came from the mother or the father, the girl acts in different ways. But that's fun stuff on competition between parternal and maternal genes.

Az · June 22, 2003, 16:24

better than having 3 sex chromosomes.

chequita guevara · June 22, 2003, 16:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Humans mate from the front, so it is thought that human females lost the swelling buttocks because they're not very prominent in erect walking humans, but then evolved larger frontal breasts to attract mates.

In many cultures, breasts don't have anywhere near the attraction from men as they do in our culture. In many cultures, breasts are not considered sexual at all, especially in hot climates.

Furthermore, humans mating soley from the front is a Christian thing. Try reading the Kama Sutra sometime. Humans mate from any direction they can. Furthermore, in terms of deepest penetration, from the rear is the best position, which means that semen is less likely to escape down someone's leg.

Az · June 22, 2003, 16:28

Indeed.

Breasts are still good to get a grip, though.

FrostyBoy · June 22, 2003, 17:02

It is not to make them attractive - that's what stupid sexual fanatic scientists came up with.

If you lived in a Nudist camp all your life (I have not), you would not be aroused or attracted because of her breasts.

The fact is, when something is hyped up to be something great, the masses will believe and follow.

Remember, there were a time where women had to hide their ankles, men got aroused just by seeing that.

But because the breasts generally vary quite a lot from woman to woman, the breast has remained the most wanted-to-see part of the female body.

FrostyBoy · June 22, 2003, 17:05

You can train yourself to stop being a follower of course, and so therefore it cannot be an instinct, but rather the media and your friends have brainwashed you by accident.

Eli · June 22, 2003, 17:16

Quote:

It's got one active gene and a bunch of junk DNA that's gotten dumped there.

There is something I always wondered about...

What if all this junk DNA is actually documentation?

Oerdin · June 22, 2003, 17:21

Stop asking why and just enjoy them.

Gatekeeper · June 22, 2003, 18:04

Well, what we need is some female perspective on this, and the odds of that at 'Poly are approximately 1 in 500 or so, correct?

Gatekeeper

chequita guevara · June 22, 2003, 18:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
Stop asking why and just enjoy them.

Best answer.

Dis · June 22, 2003, 18:39

women who have a defective y chromosone are infertile and cannot get pregnant btw.

Oerdin · June 22, 2003, 18:51

Any woman who has a Y chromosome is defective to begin with.

Sikander · June 22, 2003, 19:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Actually a portion of the fat that makes up milk does indeed come from the fatty tissue in which the milk glands are embedded. There is however a theory that the breasts are a replacement of the fleshy buttocks sported by female apes during estrus. In apes the buttocks of the female swell during the ovulatory portion of the estrus cycle, and serve to give males notice that the female is ready to breed. Apes mate from the rear. Humans mate from the front....

Humans mate from the front? D'oh!

Whaleboy · June 22, 2003, 19:11

...cos they feel nice?

Whaleboy · June 22, 2003, 19:21

Quote:

Humans mate from the front....

Well... we *are* adaptable...

*trust me to lower the tone*