Apple launches the PowerMac G5 - Page 4

monolith94 · June 25, 2003, 00:57

OS X is not slow on G4 hardware. G3, yes, but not on the G4.

Drake Tungsten · June 25, 2003, 01:42

It's not slow on faster G3 hardware either.

Asher · June 25, 2003, 01:49

And my Pentium 133 runs Windows XP flawlessly.

Asher · June 25, 2003, 01:53

Upon further investigation, I can see it as quite likely that the PowerPC 970 did legitly outperform the current Xeons in Photoshop, or at least in quite a lot of the filters.

The chip seems to have been designed with Photoshop in mind, with additional floating point units...

Not that it matters too much, it seems somewhat silly to be comparing a chip that'll come out in late August/early September with an architecture that's pushing two years old and will be replaced around the same time.

monolith94 · June 25, 2003, 02:02

"The chip seems to have been designed with Photoshop in mind"

Evidence? sounds like backtracking to me...

Asher · June 25, 2003, 02:09

Quote:

Originally posted by monolith94
Evidence? sounds like backtracking to me...

Backtracking how? I've not said anything about Photoshop benchmarks in this thread other than implying Apple's Photoshop benchmarks are not credible (which is certainly true).

"Evidence" is the large amount of FPUs on the chip. Intel cut down on the number of FPUs in the Pentium 4 because that's what they want people to buy Itaniums for (raw FPU power). They wanted the Pentium 4 to be fast in multimedia (encoding/decoding) and gaming mostly, which meant it's got weaker generic FPU power than the Athlon or PowerPC 970, but makes up for this in most apps with SSE2 (which is way faster).

Anyway, IBM put lots of FPUs and cut down on AltiVec somewhat as compared to the G4, a somewhat opposite direction Intel took. It probably has more to do with the PowerPC 970 being based on the Power4, which is a heavily FPU-intense server CPU...

monolith94 · June 25, 2003, 03:14

What does FPU stand for?

:yawn:

Urban Ranger · June 25, 2003, 05:03

Floating point unit.

Panag · June 25, 2003, 05:24

Quote:

Originally posted by monolith94
$2,000 for lowest, $3,000 for highest.

hi ,

thats without some extra's biensure , .......

have a nice MAC day

Panag · June 25, 2003, 05:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
And my Pentium 133 runs Windows XP flawlessly.

hi ,

thats good to hear , but huh , when are you going to give your answer on the IP thing , ......

we are all still waiting to hear from you , ......

say , ash , ever thought at a job with good old bill , he would love this , .......

btw , if you want i make sure you can work on one of them things , then you can post here how you like to work on it instead of bashing each time mac products , .......

have a nice APPLE day

Asher · June 25, 2003, 09:00

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Originally posted by panag
hi ,

thats good to hear

I wasn't serious...

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but huh , when are you going to give your answer on the IP thing , ......

What IP thing? The proxy thing?
I gave you my answer long ago.

BTW, weren't you the one telling everyone how fast the G4 was about a month ago?

Panag · June 25, 2003, 09:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

I wasn't serious...

What IP thing? The proxy thing?
I gave you my answer long ago.

BTW, weren't you the one telling everyone how fast the G4 was about a month ago?

hi ,

you still have not answered to " dynamic IP " , ....

a month can change a lot , in fact panag wrote six months ago that we would see the new comps either right before but most likely after the summer , ......

and that G5 baby rocks

have a nice day

Asher · June 25, 2003, 09:13

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

you still have not answered to " dynamic IP " , ....

That's what I'm asking, what exactly do you want me to answer?

Panag · June 25, 2003, 09:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

That's what I'm asking, what exactly do you want me to answer?

hi ,

*sigh*

the Q was there , ......

have a nice apple day

Asher · June 25, 2003, 09:16

Agathon · June 25, 2003, 12:14

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Originally posted by Asher

Ohhh, Agathon thinks he's being clever while being pedantic.
Take a dose of your own medicine: Pentiums were discontinued over 6 years ago.

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Photoshop results from Apple with selected filters and optimizations settings -- the most credible benchmark anyone could ever use.

Yeah - watch the test. The dual Xeon got well and truly spanked.

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So which is it? Is the PowerMac a workstation or a desktop? If you're insisting the PowerMac is not a consumer PC, then it is thereby a Workstation, shattering dozens of Apple's marketing claims.

That's why I think "fastest desktop in the world" is a silly label for any computer.

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No, there are no competent general purpose graphics programs for Linux.

There are if you are doing high end movie animation, shading and the like (I know this for a fact as a friend of mine has just started working on an animated movie, a la Pixar, but it isn't them).

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Um. Do you think they used dual processors because it's fun to use more electricity?

They used them for marketing (2 processors is better than 1) and to cater to the Workstation market which are fleeing to the PC (look at the PowerMac sales statistics for the past 2 years, truly pathetic).

I don't think anyone disputes that. Again it was Motorola's fault.

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This is dubious way? Everyone knew the 3.2GHz would be out on this very day for months, and 95% of stock 3.0GHz P4s hit 3.2GHz with ease. It's dubious to use a 3.2GHz a day after it came out and to compare this to a chip that won't be out for months? I agree. The least Apple could've done would compare it to the estimates SPEC scores for Prescott, which are in the 1500-range.

OK comparing performance on a system he couldn't have possibly tested with a system that he also hasn't tested is really clever, eh? I'm beginning to wonder whether these tests have any merit at all.

Face it Asher, this is one of your more pathetic trolls. Of course all the little Windows kiddies are frightened out of their wits that Apple might have a faster computer than they do, so they have to do something to make themselves feel more secure. Add to that the professional FUDsters and that's basically what's been happening since yesterday. I guess we can put you in the first lot.

I have no idea about the real-world performance of the G5 (since I haven't had my hands on one yet, but it seems obvious to me that, whatever its merits, it has certainly put the wind up a lot of people inclduing you.

And as for your ridiculous comments about the UI. I pointed out to you that OS X currently has no way of flipping between all open windows. I don't think XP does (at least I couldn't find it) but it does have a way of flipping between windows per application (using the dock icon). So your comments that it didn't were false. With Expose you now have three ways of doing the latter and can do the former as well.

And as for the "seems to have been designed for Photoshop" remark. How dumb are you? What do you think the number one app used on Power Macs is?

Asher · June 25, 2003, 13:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
Yeah - watch the test. The dual Xeon got well and truly spanked.

I'm waiting for more concrete testing information before I see more. Apple's Website only mentions that on the Photoshop tests, the programs were all "optimized for the PowerMac G5", which to me implies once again they disabled SSE2 and HyperThreading on the Xeons like they did in the SPEC benchmarks. Which is akin to disabling one of the CPUs in the dual G5 and turning off AltiVec...

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Face it Asher, this is one of your more pathetic trolls. Of course all the little Windows kiddies are frightened out of their wits that Apple might have a faster computer than they do

Frightened? No. Surprised? Yes.
But now that analysts have shot down Apple's benchmarks, now that even hours after they were publically released they were debunked, no one is surprised anymore. It's the usual tricks.

Why can't you just admit that Apple's marketing is worse than normal? And why can't the Apple diehards accept that Apple skewed the test in one of their renowned benchmark stunts?

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Add to that the professional FUDsters and that's basically what's been happening since yesterday.

Well, FUD isn't the right word.
People are debunking Apple's claims because, well, they're so patently false and rigged. It's so easy, anyone can do it.

Let's see -- using a special G5-optimized GCC compiler for the Mac? Check. Disabling SSE2 and HyperThreading on the Pentium, running it under the slowest OS they could find, and using the GCC compiler that's known for being pathetically slow on the Pentium 4? Check.

And you complain about the people who do accurate comparisons, saying they're spreading FUD? You're trying to defend Apple in a position that is indefensible. They're simply lying scum when it comes to hardware. Paul DeMone said it best (paraphrased): "Apple makes very high quality hardware, and the G5 certainly is a fast processor, but they ought to be embarassed and shamed for lying so publically about the performance of their computers."

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And as for your ridiculous comments about the UI. I pointed out to you that OS X currently has no way of flipping between all open windows. I don't think XP does (at least I couldn't find it) but it does have a way of flipping between windows per application (using the dock icon).

Not only does XP have that, Windows 95 had it...

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So your comments that it didn't were false.

Absolutely not, you don't seem to even understand what you're saying...
OS X had pathetic multitasking support with regards to window management. Apple agreed, and hence Expose.

I must say I am quite amazed, smoke and mirrors is such a poor debate technique and you're surely much better than that.

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And as for the "seems to have been designed for Photoshop" remark. How dumb are you? What do you think the number one app used on Power Macs is?

Probably the Finder.

As for your "dumb" comment, why don't you look at your logic? "Asher says G5 optimized for Photoshop --> Asher is dumb, Photoshop most common app on PowerMac". Truly stunning.

It's even better, as you just told me that this was "one of my more pathetic trolls".

You've also been conveniently ignoring most of the debunks in this thread, resorting to sad posts like this latest one. The further this thread progresses, the more smoke & mirrors you put out.

My favorite argument of yours, of course, is we can't know how fast it is until we use it ourselves.

Clever! What a convenient way to plug your ears and ignore all of the mounting evidence around you against Apple's claims.

Agathon · June 25, 2003, 13:39

There aren't any debunks - it's all "smoke and mirrors" as you say. Apple responded to the criticisms today and people have been saying much the same thing on various boards and blogs.

All this is, is people like yourself FUDing because they don't like Apple. And you don't seem to know how to use OS X properly. Just where do I have a list of all open windows (not sorted by application) in the Windows taskbar?

I don't buy this "fastest desktop in the world" thing. All that is, is hype. The sensible thing to do is wait until the G5 is released and used with real world applications. That's common sense.

And you are not one to lecture anyone else about logic.

Asher · June 25, 2003, 13:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
All this is, is people like yourself FUDing because they don't like Apple. And you don't seem to know how to use OS X properly. Just where do I have a list of all open windows (not sorted by application) in the Windows taskbar?

The taskbar is a list of all open windows!

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And you are not one to lecture anyone else about logic.

Apparently I am.

Mr. Nice Guy · June 25, 2003, 15:58

What a troll Asher is. He starts a thread to try and downplay Apple once again and do anything to support his position. He is taking a preemptive strike on Apple without any hard evidence. Pathetic.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL!!! WE WON'T KNOW ANYTHING FOR SURE UNTIL WE SEE THE SPEC BENCHMARKS!!! AND YOU CAN'T BE POSSIBLY KNOW ANYTHING FOR SURE ABOUT PRESCOTT UNTIL IT FINALLY IS RELEASED, JUST LIKE THE POWERMAC G5. RIGHT NOW, ONLY INTEL KNOWS THE TRUTH ABOUT PRESCOTT. STOP TAKING RUMORS AS THE TRUTH AND LEARN TO TAKE THEM WITH A GRAIN OF SALT!!!

Q Classic · June 25, 2003, 16:00

ooh, i'm seeing red. lots of it.

looks like the trolling worked.

Asher · June 25, 2003, 16:01

Cloud9

I love it when someone so clueless is so opinionated. You and Agathon both are great.

And the big-font red-colored all-cap rant full of denial and ad hominems would've been classic had you been more original.

Face it, Cloud9, the SPEC benchmarks are out. And the G5's, on an apple-to-apple (tee-hehe) basis, do not compare favourably to today's P4s, let alone tomorrow's P5s and Opterons when the G5 is actually available.

Deny all you want, nobody expects any more of a Mac user anyway.

Agathon · June 25, 2003, 16:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

The taskbar is a list of all open windows!

But when it gets more than about four it starts lumping them into tabbed lists. What's the point of that? If that's your big complaint about the Dock, it is frankly hilarious.

I can see about half a dozen open windows on the screen on the mac and if there are more I just do this.

Agathon · June 25, 2003, 16:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

I love it when someone so clueless is so opinionated. You and Agathon both are great.

Piss off. Anything you say is immediately tainted by your previous dishonesties. What's the point of being a computer expert when people catch you out as a liar?

Mr. Nice Guy · June 25, 2003, 16:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

Cloud9

I love it when someone so clueless is so opinionated.

Look who's talking. We're both clueless.

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Face it, Cloud9, the SPEC benchmarks are out.

Yeah, the SPEC for the PowerPC 970, but not the SPEC for the PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0.

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Deny all you want, nobody expects any more of a Mac user anyway.

Deny all you want, nobody expects any more of a PC user anyway.

Agathon · June 25, 2003, 16:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

And the big-font red-colored all-cap rant full of denial and ad hominems would've been classic had you been more original.

There is not one ad hominem argument in that piece.

Agathon · June 25, 2003, 16:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Cloud9

Yeah, the SPEC for the PowerPC 970, but not the SPEC for the PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0.

You win, Cloud 9.

Asher · June 25, 2003, 16:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
But when it gets more than about four it starts lumping them into tabbed lists. What's the point of that? If that's your big complaint about the Dock, it is frankly hilarious.

It's an option in XP. Don't like it?

Right click on the taskbar, go to properties, un-check "Group similar taskbar buttons".

If that's your big complaint about the taskbar, it is frankly hilarious.

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I can see about half a dozen open windows on the screen on the mac and if there are more I just do this.

Well, you must be proud.

Frankly I don't see the point to having bunch of windows open. And I'd never, ever, use an Expose feature where it zooms everything out so you can see all your windows and select one.

I'm not one of those artsy think-in-pictures kinda guy, I'm more procedural than that.

So rather than thinking "where did my Apolyton window go???" and hitting some button to cascade all my windows, then finding it...I click the button named "Apolyton..."

Asher · June 25, 2003, 16:17

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Originally posted by Agathon

There is not one ad hominem argument in that piece.

First line, Agathon. I realize it's hard to miss, what in big font, bright red, and all caps.

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Originally posted by Agathon
Piss off.

Rawr!!!

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Anything you say is immediately tainted by your previous dishonesties.

Previous dishonesties? Examples, please.

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What's the point of being a computer expert when people catch you out as a liar?

What am I lying about?

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Originally posted by Cloud9
Look who's talking. We're both clueless.

I most certainly am not clueless. I know what I'm talking about here, it's the Apple dimwits in this thread who can't do anything to support a case and end up changing their arguments. First we're blaming them not using dual CPUs in one of the benchmarks (duh! It didn't support it), then you ignore the fact that Apple rigged the PCs to perform spectaularly crappy, then you insist we don't know what the PC CPUs are going to be like in a few months, then Agathon says he thinks the "fastest CPU" comment is silly anyway.

You're both clueless. Not only about computers in general, but consistency and debate tactics.

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Yeah, the SPEC for the PowerPC 970, but not the SPEC for the PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0.

The G5 is the PowerPC 970.

You didn't figure that one out yet?

The official SPEC benchmarks are, for right now, dual 1.8GHz G5s/PowerPC 970s. Since 2GHz is ~10% faster, the SPEC benchmarks can only be ~10% higher, which still places it well under a P4 3.0GHz and 3.2GHz.

Get it?

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Deny all you want, nobody expects any more of a PC user anyway.

I'm the one providing facts, fair benchmarks, and common sense to this debate. You and Agathon are supplying the deferrals, smoke, and mirrors.

Whaleboy · June 25, 2003, 17:04

Agathon: Sweet desktop!!!

Asher: Why do you love windows so much?