Apple launches the PowerMac G5

[Asher]

Originally posted by Cruddy
Any hardware or software product that is not avaiable to buy by the general public is vapourware.

If you can't buy it, it isn't ready yet.

You're confusing "unreleased' and "vapourware".

Vapourware is Intel's Tejas, Team Fortress 2, Duke Nukem Forever, etc.

vaporware /vay'pr-weir/ n.

Products announced far in advance of any release (which may or may not actually take place). See also brochureware.

--The Jargon File version 4.3.1, ed. ESR, autonoded by rescdsk.

Then you can understand when other people pi55 on your arguments.

Certainly, it means they have no argument.

As is the case here.

I see. So you feel that by starting this thread, you can dictate what people post in it.

If it's offtopic it's called a threadjack.

And yeah, that's how it works on Apolyton.

No, again you misunderstand me. What I implied was that your arguments were tech heavy and totally ignored the needs of the real world ("real world empty").

My arguments had no relevance with the needs of the real world.

Please explain to me why the needs of the real world has anything to do with Apple lying incessantly in their marketing?

Spot the lamer who is scared of talking to processors.

I'm not scared, it's just that any codemonkey with a college diploma can write good assembly code.

I'm talking problemsolving, something I can tell you have immense troubles with.

Or if you wanna go low-level, why don't we see who can write the most efficient VS2.0 code for a waving-in-the-wind logo of Apolyton? OpenGL or Direct3D, your call.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Cloud9
Show me the $!!!

I did...I linked to the PDF and quoted the relevant sections which showed how Apple cheated to prop up the G5's marks and crippled the P4 to lower its.

The proof is all right in Veritest's publically available PDF, which I linked to and quoted a while ago. Scroll up, find it.

On the contrary, either of us might have gotten our asses kicked. I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong. I'm saying your hypothesis could be wrong.

My "hypothesis" is not wrong, because it's clearly evidenced in 1st-party documents by Veritest, who conducted those tests...

So you did get your ass kicked. Hours ago. And it still hasn't sunk in yet.

Read the PDF. Read the bolded/quoted stuff I provided.

Then ask if my "hypothesis" is incorrect...

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Asher

You're confusing "unreleased' and "vapourware".

Vapourware is Intel's Tejas, Team Fortress 2, Duke Nukem Forever, etc.

[q]vaporware /vay'pr-weir/ n.

Products announced far in advance of any release (which may or may not actually take place). See also brochureware.

And the G5 hasn't been released, which is what makes it vapourware.

Originally posted by Asher

If it's offtopic it's called a threadjack.

And yeah, that's how it works on Apolyton.

I see no mods accusing me of a threadjack. I do see an Asher who realises he's been arguing the toss for days for absolutely no reason.

Originally posted by Asher
My arguments had no relevance with the needs of the real world.

Sig material!

Originally posted by Asher
Please explain to me why the needs of the real world has anything to do with Apple lying incessantly in their marketing?

Because anybody or any company that ignores the real world is in serious need of help?

Originally posted by Asher

I'm not scared, it's just that any codemonkey with a college diploma can write good assembly code.

I'm talking problemsolving, something I can tell you have immense troubles with.

Which would run faster, your compiled crap or my assembled crap? And speed does seem pretty important to you.

Originally posted by Asher
Or if you wanna go low-level, why don't we see who can write the most efficient VS2.0 code for a waving-in-the-wind logo of Apolyton? OpenGL or Direct3D, your call.

That's not programming. Gee, I'd have thought you'd known what programming was. Hardly a real world problem is it? Who has the coolest waving flag?

Good night Asher.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Cruddy
And the G5 hasn't been released, which is what makes it vapourware.

Did you read the definition?
Vapourware != unreleased.
Vapourware is stuff that's promised in the longterm future...not within a couple months.

I see no mods accusing me of a threadjack. I do see an Asher who realises he's been arguing the toss for days for absolutely no reason.

The mods wouldn't dare read this dry crap unless someone reported it. And I'm not the type to tattle.

Because anybody or any company that ignores the real world is in serious need of help?

Words cannot describe how pathetic this argument is.
So you're saying chemists cannot discuss any of their work unless they directly relate it to the real world?

Which would run faster, your compiled crap or my assembled crap? And speed does seem pretty important to you.

I can write both, buddy.
And how about we make that a contest, then?
I'll write, say, Dijkstra's algorithm in C, you write it in x86 assembler.

Betcha I can make mine faster.

I've got map data for European cities & highways in a textfile format to build your graph from, then we can find the shortest distance between two major cities.

That's not programming. Gee, I'd have thought you'd known what programming was. Hardly a real world problem is it? Who has the coolest waving flag?

Um. Do you have any idea what vertex shader code is?
Hint: It's assembler, for GPUs.

It certainly is programming. It deals with matricies, color calculations, etc.

Short sample:

; Inputs:   v0   = Position
;           v1   = Normal
;           c0   = Useful constants (0,xxx,xxx,xxx)
;           c1-4 = WorldView matrix
;           c5-9 = WorldViewProjection matrix

vs.1.0                             ; Shader version 1.0
m4x4    r0   , v0   , c1           ; r0 = View space position
m3x3    r1   , v1   , c1           ; r1 = View space normal
m4x4    oPos , v0   , c5           ; Spit out projected position
dp3     r2.x , r0   , r0           ; Normalize r0 (position)
rsq     r2.x , r2.x
mul     r0   , r0   , r2.x
dp3     r3.x , r0   , -r1          ; Compute dot product
mad     oD0.w, r3.x , c0.y , c0.y  ; Scale to [0,1] and make alpha
mov     oD0.xyz     , c0.x         ; Diffuse RGB is 0

"Not programming" my ass. Shows what you old-timers really know about today's technology.

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Asher

Did you read the definition?
Vapourware != unreleased.
Vapourware is stuff that's promised in the longterm future...not within a couple months.

What's the bet the release date slips?

Originally posted by Asher
The mods wouldn't dare read this dry crap unless someone reported it. And I'm not the type to tattle.

Seeing as how you weighed in the with the personal remarks, there's no way you're going blubbing to a mod.

Originally posted by Asher
Words cannot describe how pathetic this argument is.
So you're saying chemists cannot discuss any of their work unless they directly relate it to the real world?

Yep. Chemists who talk about chemicals that haven't
been discovered yet are really up that creek.

Originally posted by Asher
I can write both, buddy.
And how about we make that a contest, then?
I'll write, say, Dijkstra's algorithm in C, you write it in x86 assembler.

Betcha I can make mine faster.

No. Level playing feld or none at all.

Originally posted by Asher

Um. Do you have any idea what vertex shader code is?
Hint: It's assembler, for GPUs.

It certainly is programming. It deals with matricies, color calculations, etc.

Short sample:

Code:

; Inputs: v0 = Position ; v1 = Normal ; c0 = Useful constants (0,xxx,xxx,xxx) ; c1-4 = WorldView matrix ; c5-9 = WorldViewProjection matrix vs.1.0 ; Shader version 1.0 m4x4 r0 , v0 , c1 ; r0 = View space position m3x3 r1 , v1 , c1 ; r1 = View space normal m4x4 oPos , v0 , c5 ; Spit out projected position dp3 r2.x , r0 , r0 ; Normalize r0 (position) rsq r2.x , r2.x mul r0 , r0 , r2.x dp3 r3.x , r0 , -r1 ; Compute dot product mad oD0.w, r3.x , c0.y , c0.y ; Scale to [0,1] and make alpha mov oD0.xyz , c0.x ; Diffuse RGB is 0

"Not programming" my ass. Shows what you old-timers really know about today's technology.

It's got evalutaors? It can jump? It can loop? It can take real world input?

Coding isn't programming, boy.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Cruddy
Yep. Chemists who talk about chemicals that haven't
been discovered yet are really up that creek.

Oh my God.
That's not what your argument was.
The hardware I was discussing have been invented and discovered, yet for some reason it doesn't constitute the "real world" unless I talk about direct impact to people.

Face it, it's a bullshit argument of yours. Societal impact/real world is not needed, particularly in academic discussion about hardware where techy-geeks are interested purely in technology.

No. Level playing feld or none at all.

Why? Assembler has the advantage with assembly, it's me who's disadvantaged!

It's got evalutaors? It can jump? It can loop?

Yes, yes, yes. (The last two are redundant btw )

It can take real world input?

Depends how you define it. It can take dynamic input, so yes.

Coding isn't programming, boy.

It absolutely is.
Programming isn't software engineering.

Programming is the process of writing code, syn: coding.

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Asher

Oh my God.
That's not what your argument was.
The hardware I was discussing have been invented and discovered, yet for some reason it doesn't constitute the "real world" unless I talk about direct impact to people.

Face it, it's a bullshit argument of yours. Societal impact/real world is not needed, particularly in academic discussion about hardware where techy-geeks are interested purely in technology.

You used the analogy of chemistry. I pointed out that chemists deal with real world elements and known theory - not what is down the road in a couple of months.

Originally posted by Asher
Why? Assembler has the advantage with assembly, it's me who's disadvantaged!

Because then you've got an excuse for losing.

Originally posted by Asher
Yes, yes, yes. (The last two are redundant btw )

Loops and jumps redundant? My, aren't WE spoiled for memory?

Try doing that on a dedicated setup where you've only got a few K of RAM to play with. Oh I forget, you arguments don't relate to the real world.

Originally posted by Asher

Depends how you define it. It can take dynamic input, so yes.

That's what I was looking for. OK, it's a coding language.

Now tell me how to use to interface with a general purpose IO port and I might agree it's a programming language.

Originally posted by Asher
It absolutely is.
Programming isn't software engineering.

Programming is the process of writing code, syn: coding.

You have that attitude when you leave college and no software house will touch you with a barge poll.

Too many hours on Poly and not enough on study.

I quit Asher. Now you have turned it into a threadjack. So get back to slagging Apple.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Cruddy
Loops and jumps redundant? My, aren't WE spoiled for memory?

Try doing that on a dedicated setup where you've only got a few K of RAM to play with. Oh I forget, you arguments don't relate to the real world.

Actually, yours is the one not dealing with the real world.
All video cards that support Vertex Shaders have at minimum 32MB of high-speed, low-latency RAM.

You accomplish loops by jumping and branching.

Now tell me how to use to interface with a general purpose IO port and I might agree it's a programming language.

You're pretty dense...
It's not a computer interface language -- it runs inside of DirectX or OpenGL. It runs the graphics card as if it's a mini-computer, so it only interfaces with AGP or the graphics card itself.

You have that attitude when you leave college and no software house will touch you with a barge poll.

Too many hours on Poly and not enough on study.

Maybe your definitions are outdated?

Coding is synonymous with programming now. Software engineering is programming w/ problem solving.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Now children, play nice, or you'll get sent to your rooms without your supper. Or your computers.

[Ming]

Damn... beat me to it... sigh

[Asher]

[Asher]

Out of curiousity, did somebody hit the report-to-moderators button in here or are you two intrigued by the G5?

[monolith94]

This thread is too boring to be worthy of a closure. It's like a nerds MBT thread...

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Asher
Out of curiousity, did somebody hit the report-to-moderators button in here or are you two intrigued by the G5?

We're just beat cops. Occasionally, we happen to go through every block on our beats, we just spend more time at some than at others.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by monolith94
This thread is too boring to be worthy of a closure. It's like a nerds MBT thread...

Speaking of MBT threads, this is the cure all:

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/inf.html

TEST DRIVES!!!!

Guess I'll be going to Russia pretty soon.

[monolith94]

like a kid in a candy store...

[Panag]

Originally posted by Asher

First line, Agathon. I realize it's hard to miss, what in big font, bright red, and all caps.


Rawr!!!


Previous dishonesties? Examples, please.


What am I lying about?


I most certainly am not clueless. I know what I'm talking about here, it's the Apple dimwits in this thread who can't do anything to support a case and end up changing their arguments. First we're blaming them not using dual CPUs in one of the benchmarks (duh! It didn't support it), then you ignore the fact that Apple rigged the PCs to perform spectaularly crappy, then you insist we don't know what the PC CPUs are going to be like in a few months, then Agathon says he thinks the "fastest CPU" comment is silly anyway.

You're both clueless. Not only about computers in general, but consistency and debate tactics.



The G5 is the PowerPC 970.
You didn't figure that one out yet?

The official SPEC benchmarks are, for right now, dual 1.8GHz G5s/PowerPC 970s. Since 2GHz is ~10% faster, the SPEC benchmarks can only be ~10% higher, which still places it well under a P4 3.0GHz and 3.2GHz.

Get it?


I'm the one providing facts, fair benchmarks, and common sense to this debate. You and Agathon are supplying the deferrals, smoke, and mirrors.

hi ,

what is it with you and mac bashing anyway , this q has been asked many times yet you have never given a full answer , .....

you even bash apple in threads where there is no relevance as to the quality of the product , ......

try a mac and then you can talk about it the way you do , .....

its also intresting that you post old myths that are no longer causing any problems or that are grasped completely out of the blue and are unfounded and contradict as to what a mac user sees and has on his comp , ......

the links you sometimes provide are made by people who seem to do nothing else all day then to bash mac and post lies about them , ..... people who know zilch from apple and post lies , some have even been to court for it , .... ( and no i aint going to post all those links here again )

one can only wonder , if mac really would be that bad , then just why the heck do so many gov offices use them , like the national weather service for example , ...... why , well simple , because the found it to be the best product around to suit the needs they have , .....

if apple and mac would be worthless then how come they are still being sold , .....

and if they really where to be that bad then my office wouyld not even have ordered them new powerbooks or them new g5's , ......

furthermore you bash on little irrelevant peanuts that no-one really cares about , ......

before you post that one does not care about the real world , wake up , ... who cares wheter or not you want to waste your time with mac bashing , ......

and till this day you still have not answered to the dynamic ip Q , .....


maybe you should buy a mac with dual or triple OS and learn and write about whats wrong here and there , if you want an interview can be provided with both apple or windows , in case you want to cash out on what you have found , ......

oh , and btw , them new specs and bench marks are there on the apple site , .....

have a nice day

[Q Classic]

why won't you let this die?



*bump*

[Asher]

It absolutely amazes me that you can write such a long post without a single shred of truth in it and incredibly ridiculous logic...

And you still have not asked your "dynamic IP" question. I've asked no less than two times for you to tell me the question, but you refuse to -- then tell me to answer it.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Asher
It absolutely amazes me that you can write such a long post without a single shred of truth in it and incredibly ridiculous logic...

And you still have not asked your "dynamic IP" question. I've asked no less than two times for you to tell me the question, but you refuse to -- then tell me to answer it.

hi ,

the same could be set about your apple and mac bashing posts asher , .....

as for the IP , you know the thread , .....

have a nice day

[Asher]

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

the same could be set about your apple and mac bashing posts asher , .....

Absolutely, there is no truth in first-party documents by the people who tested them. They are all lies written by people who have nothing better to do than bash Macs, right? That's what you said, isn't it?

as for the IP , you know the thread , .....

have a nice day

Actually I don't remember what it's called, I also don't remember a question about a dynamic IP.

And apparently you don't either, this is the third time you've dodged answering what the damn question is.

[Whaleboy]

So Asher, why do you love windows so much? Out of pure curiosity.

Also, give me a case for why I should switch from linux (im on slackware 9.0 running 2.5.x kernel (update when new releases comes out) to windows. My concerns are security, civil liberties, and ability to use unix commandline (I got others but those are some of the biggies).

[Asher]

I don't care what you use, why should you care what I use?

[Whaleboy]

Because being a windows advocate, you could wish to increase windows usage. I am asking you to provide a consise argument for why I, as a linux user, but also linux users in general, if I were pretentious I would say that I was asking on the basis of the linux community, why I should switch to windows.

I ask as a request, if your case is good enough, being a rational person, I shall switch.

[Asher]

Originally posted by elijah
Because being a windows advocate, you could wish to increase windows usage.

It's essentially impossible for windows usage to increase.

I use it because I like it, and when people spread bullshit about it, I'll counter it -- when people need help with it, I'll help them.

I am asking you to provide a consise argument for why I, as a linux user, but also linux users in general, if I were pretentious I would say that I was asking on the basis of the linux community, why I should switch to windows.

Linux users should switch to Windows if they want to.

I ask as a request, if your case is good enough, being a rational person, I shall switch.

I really don't care if you switch or not.

[monolith94]

"It's essentially impossible for windows usage to increase."

No it's not! It's impossible for them to gain market share, but if the market as a whole grows (as it is bound to do) then windows usage will continue to increase.

[Asher]

Originally posted by monolith94
No it's not! It's impossible for them to gain market share, but if the market as a whole grows (as it is bound to do) then windows usage will continue to increase.

The emerging markets aren't fond of MS.

They're cheap bastards and go for Linux. Which is fine.

UR goes into orgasm every time some small, insignificant country buys Linux. But you never see him post a thread like how MS just got a half-billion dollar contract with the US Army.

[Whaleboy]

UR goes into orgasm every time some small, insignificant country buys Linux.

Like Munich?

[Asher]

Originally posted by elijah
Like Munich?

Exactly. If Munich was a country, it would certainly be small and insignificant.

[Whaleboy]

I use it because I like it
Linux users should switch to Windows if they want to

You're not exactly neutral in this debate between linux and windows. If you wont give me a case as to why I should switch to windows, can I take it that you cant?

The third world is an increasinly important market for desktop computing, and it is one where linux is gaining a good hold. I'm not sure about mac. The advantage is that here, the MS inertia is much less, and of course linux gives significant price advantages, and then of course there is the community-based support. Personally, I find LUGs to be far more efficient than hanging on the phone for hours to be told to reinstall.