June 27, 2003, 22:10
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#121
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:31
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
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Zylka, I have to wonder, why are you citing from the National Association for the Advancement of White People?
http://www.naawp.com/news/2002/hitandrun.htm
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Tutto nel mondo è burla
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June 27, 2003, 22:46
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#122
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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*****.
She deserves death. Unless she has children, then I say 50 years.
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June 27, 2003, 23:03
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#123
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Deity
Local Time: 23:31
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Originally posted by Tassadar5000
*****.
She deserves death. Unless she has children,
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What does that have to do with anything?
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June 27, 2003, 23:17
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#124
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King
Local Time: 23:31
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wichita
Posts: 1,352
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This is a very horrific thing, but I disagree with those who want a draconian punishment for the lady.
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http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
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June 27, 2003, 23:33
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#125
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King
Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
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OUCH
To be honest, I just yahoo searched her name and that was one of the first sites listed - didn't have a clue of its purpose. Doesn't really matter though, as everything they've detailed in that horrific little bit has been confirmed as true. THE GIRL SPREAD HER LEGS FOR COMFORT WHILE A MAN BLED TO DEATH AND BEGGED FOR HELP BEHIND A PURPOSELY SHUT DOOR
...and to the fact that she was intoxicated beyond logic of caring for another person on ALCOHOL, MARIJUANA and ECSTASY - are you out of your f*cking minds? You seriously can't harm a rat under the combined influence of these substances, unless you're a sociopath whose only inclination is self preservation and evasion from punishment. It's often argued that ecstasy should have been named "empathy" for its emotional influence - something that she sure as hell stressed to avoid. Note that we're also talking about a NURSES AID, here; flooded with seretonin, this b*tch went right out of her way to force herself in acting illogically and ignoring the cries of a dying human being.
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June 27, 2003, 23:44
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#126
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Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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I agree completely with UR. The fact she tried to hide it does not change the act itself. She did not intend to kill that person. Yes drunk driving is definatly reckless, and using MtGs definitions, i would think it deserves felony vehicular manslaughter. It was also reckless abandonment that she did not try to help him. ANd thus a second charge of voluntary manslaughter. Add to that that afterwards she was
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hysterical and confused.
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Yes she was reckless, yes she killed someone, but she did not intend to kill them. She was under the influence of substances. It is horrific how he died, but she did not intend to kill him. One life has been lost, why take another? Why should the state pay for her to be locked up when she is not a danger to others. If she intended to kill them, then she is a danger, and thus needs to be locked up, however she didn't intend too. She is no danger. She was under the influence of substances, she was hysterical afterwards, so that someone else disposed of the body. All I see is a car crash, that happens to many people everyday. She is being put to prison for at least 25 years for not helping someone in need, for inaction. She is guilty of manslaughter, she killed someone. But she did not mean to. I would say minimum sentance of 5 years would have been appropriate, but I think it's nothing but a needless waste of ha life and taxpayers money to lock her up for a long period of time. What good is served by doing it? All I feel is sorrow at the loss, and compassion for both victims in this. I can't imagine how horribly this would scar her emotionally, hitting someone like that, watching them bleed to death. It is horrific, and I think she willbe scarred for life. I'd be surprised if she doesn't commit suicide.
Did anybody see the CSI where the guy takes Jimson Weed, and ends up killing his best friend, even though he doesn't remember or mean to. I could not help but agree with Grissom, and feel sorrow that he and not the dealer was on trial for murder.
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For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
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June 27, 2003, 23:49
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#127
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Local Time: 00:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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The fact she tried to hide it does not change the act itself. She did not intend to kill that person.
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Under the law you are incorrect. By preventing aid from being given to the man she DID intend to kill him, because she had a duty to the man, and refused to give it to him, knowing that the person would die.
It was a simple case. Murder. There is no other alternative. Anything less would be a travesty of justice.
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Yes she was reckless, yes she killed someone, but she did not intend to kill them.
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You do realize there is such a thing as reckless murder? Often called 'depraved heart'. It is basicaly extreme indifference to human life. I'd say that applies here.
And why is she in jail now? Deterance. This type of behavior is not ok. People cannot be told that if you hit someone while on drugs you can take him home and wait for him to die and only get vehicular homicide (which you would have gotten if the guy ended up dying from injuries from the accident anyway).
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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June 27, 2003, 23:53
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#128
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King
Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
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Originally posted by Drogue
I agree completely with UR.
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k
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She was under the influence of substances. It is horrific how he died, but she did not intend to kill him.
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HEY THERE - SHE HAD TWO F*CKING DAYS TO SOBER UP AFTERWARDS, IN WHICH TIME THE MAN BEGGED FOR HELP AS A DYING PRISONER IN HER GARAGE (Sorry to shout, but if you indeed understand what I've just said, I'll try lowercase in the future)
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One life has been lost, why take another? Why should the state pay for her to be locked up when she is not a danger to others. If she intended to kill them, then she is a danger, and thus needs to be locked up, however she didn't intend too. She is no danger. She was under the influence of substances, she was hysterical afterwards, so that someone else disposed of the body.
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Yessir, let the sociopath who stared into the bleeding face of a pleading man, turned around and locked the door go - maybe give her some Datura tea the next time she wants to DRIVE INTO PEOPLE AND CARRY THEM HOME ON HER WINDSHIELD. Where exactly is this pink marshmallow land you and UR call home?
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Did anybody see the CSI where the guy takes Jimson Weed, and ends up killing his best friend, even though he doesn't remember or mean to. I could not help but agree with Grissom, and feel sorrow that he and not the dealer was on trial for murder.
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Did anyone realize that you accept responsibility for your actions the second you ingest a PSYCHOTIC BEHAVIOR INDUCING, HIGHLY TOXIC SUBSTANCE? Anyone else know that Jimson Weed is a plant and has nothing to do with dealers, rather an irresponsible hillbilly picking the seeds on his own free time?
Ok then, LET HER BACK INTO THE REAL WORLD
argghgh;iuljk.l;kl/! @!$T$R23
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June 27, 2003, 23:54
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#129
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Local Time: 00:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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You know, Zylka is 100% on the money.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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June 27, 2003, 23:55
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#130
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Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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According to MtGs post (although that is Californian Law) not acting to help him counts as volantary manslaughter. She did nothing to prevent his death when she could have. I think Murder is a travesty. She did not intend to kill him. Not helping is not intending to kill. Especilly with mitigating circumstances such as hysteria. She could have claimed temporary insanity. As I stated, what use is it to lock her up? What good does it do? The fact you can lock people up for not helping someone is a travesty of justice. Murder involves intent. Manslaughter is without intent. Not helping does not mean an intent to kill. Her being put to prison for that long is a waste of even more life, of money, and a travesty of justice. The only purpose it serves is revenge. A petty emotion.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
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June 27, 2003, 23:58
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#131
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King
Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
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She imprisoned the man against his own will - he did not break his own legs and stuff his body into the frame of a speeding car. Does that count as murder?
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June 28, 2003, 00:02
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#132
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Local Time: 00:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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According to MtGs post (although that is Californian Law) not acting to help him counts as volantary manslaughter.
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You misunderstood his post then. The worst crime the woman committed was taking the injured man back to her house and letting her die. Not only did she not act to help him, but she HINDERED anyone else who may have helped him. She has a duty to the person after she hits him. It would have been more moral for her to leave the man on the side of the road. She took him home and left him to die. It wasn't nonfeasance (failure to help) but malfeasance (making a situation worse).
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Murder involves intent. Manslaughter is without intent. Not helping does not mean an intent to kill.
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She DIDN'T intend to kill him when she left him on her windshield for days without medical attention, while he was bleeding?! I guess that was just 'not helping', even though she drove the guy home and left him there, not responding to his pleas for help. Yeah, just 'not helping'
What are you, INSANE?!
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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June 28, 2003, 00:05
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#133
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Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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Zylka: I won't even bother replying to most of the message, since it seems to be insults as if we have no clue. We just believe that maybe there would have to be a use for locking her up for it to be just. However on the last point, you obviously didn't watch the episode I was refering to. It was the dealer, at a rave, who went to sell it to them, selling them the dregs at the bottom, when they had never tried drugs before. And no, I don't think people are as respobsible for their actions when they are inebriated, just like a mentally ill person is not as responsible for their reactions.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
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June 28, 2003, 00:08
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#134
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Local Time: 00:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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I don't think people are as respobsible for their actions when they are inebriated
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They didn't make the choice to inject that materials that made them that way?
And so I imagine you have no problems with drunk drivers then? If they kill someone on the road while drunk... well, they aren't responsible for their actions, let's just let them go, right?
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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June 28, 2003, 00:11
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#135
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Deity
Local Time: 23:31
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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What MtG says about California law is irrelevant, and I don't say that in a snotty way.
The case is in Texas.
Her ass is grass.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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June 28, 2003, 00:11
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#136
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Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
She DIDN'T intend to kill him when she left him on her windshield for days without medical attention, while he was bleeding?!
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No. Just like I didn't intend to kill the african boy who is dying because the money I pay in tax is funding the EU dumping food on hsi province, so his dad doesn't have a job.
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I guess that was just 'not helping', even though she drove the guy home and left him there, not responding to his pleas for help. Yeah, just 'not helping'
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Yes. She deserves to go to prison for manslaughter on 2 counts IMHO. That is about 10 years.
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What are you, INSANE?!
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No, I believe justice should serve a purpose. What purpose does locking her up serve? Revenge, plain and simple. And that is it. Can't you understand that some people feel compassion? Some people believe in determinism too, whoch means that they do not believe she is able to control, nor should be responsible for her actions.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
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June 28, 2003, 00:11
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#137
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:31
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
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__________________
Tutto nel mondo è burla
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June 28, 2003, 00:12
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#138
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Emperor
Local Time: 23:31
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
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I believe Texas defines murder more broadly than intent. They have a provision that allows murder charges against people who react like she did (I can't remeber the phrase I heard on the news).
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June 28, 2003, 00:13
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#139
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King
Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
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Wait Imran - so what if he was hidden away dying and immobile from the rest of the able world!
Let's say she instead cemented him some nice block shoes and sent him to the bottom of a local river. The man is drowning and struggling for outside help on his way down - but not technically dead yet, only dying! As she stares through the surface and into his frantic, helpless eyes - she takes no responsibilty for cementing away his ability to escape, no responsibility for leaving him in a situation which WILL kill him, and no responsibilty for not telling able authorities of his plight.
Come to think of it, this might have been a fair situation for the man according to what he actually got. No one would have heard him scream under the water just as locked away in a garage - but they probably would have had a better chance SEEING him without a f*cking CLOSED GARAGE DOOR IN THE WAY
How can you see this as anything but murder?!
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June 28, 2003, 00:15
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#140
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Deity
Local Time: 23:31
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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She brought it on herself.
Had she simply reported the accident, it would have been grim, but not as grim as she finds herself now.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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June 28, 2003, 00:16
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#141
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Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And so I imagine you have no problems with drunk drivers then?
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Not at all. I think it is and should be acrime. I said they were less responsibel for their actions when inebriated, they are stil to soem extent responsible. But if someone takes a drug that means they cannot control themselves at all, they have committed the crime of taking that drug. If they kill someone or not while on that drug, they cannot control it. Therefore why are they less guilty if they don't kill someone than if they do? They have the same intent, the intent to take that drug. What they do on it is not under their control.
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
If they kill someone on the road while drunk... well, they aren't responsible for their actions, let's just let them go, right?
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No, you arrest them. However that is not as bad as someone who murders someone, as in shooting them.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
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June 28, 2003, 00:17
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#142
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Local Time: 00:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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No. Just like I didn't intend to kill the african boy who is dying because the money I pay in tax is funding the EU dumping food on hsi province, so his dad doesn't have a job.
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ARE YOU THAT DENSE?!
How is not paying for someone else's job anyway comparable to picking up the guy you hit on the road, shoving him INTO your car, and hiding him in your house for days until he dies, so no one will find out that you were high and drunk and ran into a homeless man?!
If you can't see the difference you are an utter moron. In not paying you are 'not helping', in this case, you are 'making things worse'. How can you possibly not see the difference?
How old are you anyway?
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What purpose does locking her up serve?
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It's called deterrance.
Preventing other idiots from deciding to take a life by preventing anyone from getting the guy they hit medical attention because they decide if they are caught the most they'll get in jail is exactly what they would have gotten if the guy died when they hit them.
It called preventing people from causing someone to die, when he easily could recieve medical attention and live.
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Can't you understand that some people feel compassion?
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I can't understand ANYONE that would feel compassion for this piece of ****. It'd be like someone saying they feel compassion for Jeffrey Dahmer.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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June 28, 2003, 00:17
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#143
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King
Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Drogue
Zylka: I won't even bother replying to most of the message, since it seems to be insults as if we have no clue. We just believe that maybe there would have to be a use for locking her up for it to be just. However on the last point, you obviously didn't watch the episode I was refering to. It was the dealer, at a rave, who went to sell it to them, selling them the dregs at the bottom, when they had never tried drugs before.
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You have absolutely no clue - that's my point: so ignore responding if you don't feel capable. Oh, and buying/consuming mysterious seeds which you haven't a f*cking clue of identifying at a rave. THAT IS A 10 OUT OF 10 FOR RESPONSIBILITY - PLEASE LOCK THE DEALER UP AS HE WAS PUSHING A LEGAL SUBSTANCE AND OBVIOUSLY SHOVED IT DOWN THEIR UNWILLING THROATS HIMSELF
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June 28, 2003, 00:18
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#144
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:31
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
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Whether or not the woman was on drugs at the time of the accident is irrelevant. She had two days during which she continually chose not to get help for the man whose condition for which she was responsible, intentionally or not. It is the intentional act of not getting him help for the injuries that she inflicted that makes it intentional murder.
Considering, as that affidavit shows, she wasn't remotely blubbering after the accident happen, I'd chalk up her performance in court to being more concerned with her own fate than anyone else's.
The sentence seems fair. With good behavior, she'll be out long before the 50 years is up.
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Tutto nel mondo è burla
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June 28, 2003, 00:18
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#145
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Local Time: 04:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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Quote:
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Originally posted by SlowwHand
What MtG says about California law is irrelevant, and I don't say that in a snotty way.
The case is in Texas.
Her ass is grass.
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Very true. I am not arguing that according to Texas law she souldn't have been convicted. Under Texas law it is correct. However I am arguing that she shouldn't be given that long, and thus that I disagree with Texas law on the subject. Arguing more about morals than about law.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
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June 28, 2003, 00:18
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#146
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Deity
Local Time: 23:31
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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Zylka, get a damp cloth, put it over your eyes, and lay back in a dark room.
Think happy thoughts.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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June 28, 2003, 00:22
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#147
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Local Time: 00:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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However that is not as bad as someone who murders someone, as in shooting them.
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What Mallard did was as bad as shooting the guy. She hit him, and then instead of getting help, she took him away to her house, hid him, refused to give him medical attention and waited until he died. She consciously and purposely hindered any attempts to aid him. Not only that, but in hitting him, she owed a duty to him, and she failed to perform that duty at all and instead, as I said, hindered it.
This case is basically like a bunch of drunks who walk out of a bar beat a guy to near death... then talk him to their house, dump him in the garage, and prevent him from getting medical aid, even after they've sobered up. Now if you are going to tell me that isn't murder, there is no hope for you.
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I believe Texas defines murder more broadly than intent.
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Every state does. Every state has a 'reckless' murder, which is extreme disregard for human life, which this case is obviously a case of.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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June 28, 2003, 00:23
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#148
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King
Local Time: 04:31
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Join Date: May 2000
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Posts: 1,054
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I can't do this, Sloww
You have to scream - or the eyes of the dense listener simply glaze over and miss every single defence collapsing point you make
Can you hear me if I simply talk in a deep voice instead? Do you see how this woman dragged a man into confinement and let him drown in blood? Good, we're making progress!
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June 28, 2003, 00:25
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#149
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Local Time: 00:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Zylka, get a damp cloth, put it over your eyes, and lay back in a dark room.
Think happy thoughts.
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I should do that too... I can't believe someone could be this dense after having the law explained to him and the purpose for it! It's astounding to me. Then again, we have wackos that'll believe in anything.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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June 28, 2003, 00:25
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#150
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Local Time: 00:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Zylka:
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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