Nuclear Weapons found in Iraq!!!!

Agathon · June 25, 2003, 19:07

Well not quite, but I'm sure this will be hyped to the heavens.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...uge/index.html

Quote:

From David Ensor
CNN Washington Bureau

(CNN) -- The CIA has in its hands the critical parts of a key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology -- parts needed to develop a bomb program -- that were dug up in a back yard in Baghdad, CNN has learned.

The parts were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi Obeidi who had hidden them in his back yard under a rose bush 12 years ago under orders from Qusay Hussein and Saddam Hussein's then son-in-law, Hussein Kamel.

U.S. officials emphasized this was not evidence Iraq had a nuclear weapon -- but it was evidence the Iraqis concealed plans to reconstitute their nuclear program as soon as the world was no longer looking.

The parts and documents Obeidi gave the CIA were shown exclusively to CNN at CIA headquarters in Virginia.

Obeidi told CNN the parts of a gas centrifuge system for enriching uranium were part of a highly sophisticated system he was ordered to hide so as to be ready to rebuild the bomb program at some time in the future.

"I have very important things at my disposal that I have been ordered to have, to keep, and I've kept them, and I don't want this to proliferate, because of its potential consequences if it falls in the hands of tyrants, in the hands of dictators or of terrorists," said Obeidi, who has been taken out of Iraq with the help of the U.S. government.

Centrifuges are drums or cylinders that spin at high speed and separate heavy and light molecules, allowing increasingly enriched uranium to be drawn off.

Former U.N. arms inspector David Kay, now in charge of the CIA search for unconventional weapons, started work two days ago in Baghdad. CNN spoke to him about the case over a secure teleconferencing line.

"It begins to tell us how huge our job is," Kay said. "Remember, his material was buried in a barrel behind his house in a rose garden. There's no way that that would have been discovered by normal international inspections. I couldn't have done it. My successors couldn't have done it."

CNN had this story last week but made a decision to withhold it at the request of the U.S. government, which cited safety and national security concerns.

The U.S. government told CNN the security and safety issues have been dealt with and there is no risk now in telling the story fully.

The gas centrifuge equipment dates to Iraq's pre-1991 efforts to build nuclear weapons.

Experts said the documents and pieces Obeidi gave the United States were the critical information and parts to restart a nuclear weapons program and would have saved Saddam's regime several years and as much as hundreds of millions of dollars for research.

Obeidi said he felt unsafe in Iraq after the U.S.-led invasion and that he was getting pressure from different corners of the country.

He also said other Iraqi scientists were watching to see if he was safe after he cooperated with the U.S. government.

Now that he is safe, Obeidi said he believes other scientists would come forward with other components of Iraq's weapons program.

CNN National Correspondent Mike Boettcher contributed to this report.

I see the government wanted to keep it quiet at first. I guess they were making sure it wasn't a milking machine.

Dauphin · June 25, 2003, 19:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
The parts were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi Obeidi who had hidden them in his back yard under a rose bush 12 years ago

I stopped reading there.

Agathon · June 25, 2003, 19:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Crunch

I stopped reading there.

You shouldn't have. Apparently, one of Saddam's boys told him to do it for safekeeping. So he was awaiting the order for the nuclear program to start again - but it never came.

I suppose it isn't much of a find. The scientist said that if the Inspectors had taken him and his family out of Iraq he would have given them the stuff.

Cruddy · June 25, 2003, 19:14

Quick! Dig up all Iraqi rose bushes at once!

And don't forget the azaelias!

Dauphin · June 25, 2003, 19:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon

You shouldn't have. Apparently, one of Saddam's boys told him to do it for safekeeping. So he was awaiting the order for the nuclear program to start again - but it never came.

Which would suggest that no programme was running in the past 12 years. No? Else they would want all those components back.

DRoseDARs · June 25, 2003, 19:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Crunch

Which would suggest that no programme was running in the past 12 years. No? Else they would want all those components back.

So instead of a "smoking gun" they've uncovered a "rusting, poorly-maintained gun."

I'll have to remember to set my vcr to record FAUX News and buy some popcorn from the store. Their coverage ought to be entertaining.

*DRoseDARs' thoughts wander off as he wonders where he last saw the salt he usually adds to his popcorn...*

Jac de Molay · June 25, 2003, 19:26

They call that bullshit a "key piece" of Iraq's nuclear technology....

It looks like a carburateur kit for a 1986 Ford Ranger

SlowwHand · June 25, 2003, 19:32

Getting closer.

Kyle · June 25, 2003, 19:32

Of course because we're all nuclear experts who know what we're talking about...

The diplomat · June 25, 2003, 19:34

Mark my words: we'll find the WMDs, it is only a matter of time. And when we do, all those naysayers will look really really stupid and it will be their own fault because they were determined to politicize everything rather than wait for the truth!

SlowwHand · June 25, 2003, 19:35

Already looking pretty dorky, diplomat.

Evil Knevil · June 25, 2003, 19:41

Be that as it may. The British Government lied to us about the WMD capabilities of the Iraqis, as well as lying to the public with 'intelligence' dossiers. If our Government had any decency there would be resignations aplenty.

Oh, and we're still waiting.

reds4ever · June 25, 2003, 19:43

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Getting closer.

Some might call it lowering the bar

Surely, at best they've found evidenece that the Iraqis have had no nuclear program for the last 12 years?

notyoueither · June 25, 2003, 19:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
I suppose it isn't much of a find. The scientist said that if the Inspectors had taken him and his family out of Iraq he would have given them the stuff.

Wasn't the key bit there that the regime would not allow inspectors to take them out of the country, and that the scientists were afraid for their own safety and that of their families?

Evil Knevil · June 25, 2003, 19:45

Actually the UN were getting towards an agreement on this, but unfortunately somebody went to the Azores and ****ed things up

Agathon · June 25, 2003, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by DRoseDARs

So instead of a "smoking gun" they've uncovered a "rusting, poorly-maintained gun."

What's up today? People seem to be funnier than usual. Silly season?

DRoseDARs · June 25, 2003, 19:57

For the record (again...), I've always believed Saddam had WMDs hidden somewhere inside Iraq (or Syria potentially). That's never been a question for me (though I have strong doubts about them having much in the way of developing nuclear weapons).

My thing is that was the justification for the war: Saddam has wmds and is an imminent threat to the West, led by the USA, and is scant months away from having nuclear weapons.

The burden of PROOF is on the Bush Administration. He risks very bad backlash from home and abroad if he does not find what he said he knew about. Grasping straws won't cut it, side-stepping questions won't cut it, down-playing setbacks won't cut it, shouting-down critics won't cut it...only hard physical proof will be apropriate.

I don't care about Bush's political future. One way or another he'll be gone, be it in 1 year or 4 more. My concern is the damage he has already done to the United States' image in the eyes of the rest of the world and the damage he is likely to continue to contribute until his presidency ends. Years after he is gone this country will still be smarting from it's poor world image. Whether one cares about what the rest of the world thinks or not is immaterial: even the most isolated nation still has contact with the outside world. The USA, being the Western Industrialized country that it is, WILL be affected by world opinion of it.

My generation and the one after mine will be the ones who have to repair the damage when it's our turn to lead the nation...

GePap · June 25, 2003, 20:01

Quote:

Originally posted by The diplomat
Mark my words: we'll find the WMDs, it is only a matter of time. And when we do, all those naysayers will look really really stupid and it will be their own fault because they were determined to politicize everything rather than wait for the truth!

Yeah, if they find a couple of chemical shells, it shows Iraq was an imminent threat and would have colluded with Al qaida to kill a billion Americans......

The WMD excuse for war was weak before the war, and now shows itself to have been far, far weaker than that.

Dauphin · June 25, 2003, 20:02

Quote:

Originally posted by The diplomat
Mark my words: we'll find the WMDs, it is only a matter of time. And when we do, all those naysayers will look really really stupid and it will be their own fault because they were determined to politicize everything rather than wait for the truth!

There very well may be nuclear or biochem weapons out there in Iraq, or have been destroyed in the past year or so. Show me real evidence because none of what has been found to date can seriously be used to say that such weapons exist/ed.

notyoueither · June 25, 2003, 20:04

DRoseDARs, I think you are rather over-wrought on the topic. It's pretty simple. Many people are against war, no matter the reasons. It is a divisive issue. There was a war. Opinions were strongly divided. The war is over. People will get over it, by and large.

What people will not get over, at least some of them, is the power of the United States in the world relative to everyone else. The only way for you to fix that would be for the United States to go entirely isolationist and disband much of its military. There are people who would really like to see that happen. Do it and they will have won.

notyoueither · June 25, 2003, 20:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Crunch
There very well may be nuclear or biochem weapons out there in Iraq, or have been destroyed in the past year or so. Show me real evidence because none of what has been found to date can seriously be used to say that such weapons exist/ed.

Chemical warfare shells have already been found, have they not?

Cruddy · June 25, 2003, 20:09

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither

Chemical warfare shells have already been found, have they not?

Yes, a dozen or so were found.

They are, of course, completely useless without a chemical weapon to go inside them.

Dauphin · June 25, 2003, 20:11

Edit - x post what Cruddy said.

GePap · June 25, 2003, 20:12

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither

Chemical warfare shells have already been found, have they not?

Empties. 12 empty shells burried in a dump (and found by inspections, no less) do not an argument for war make. Hell, in the same time span the inspectors, without 100% cooperation, have found more than Coolition troops.

notyoueither · June 25, 2003, 20:17

The point is, they weren't supposed to have them.

Nor were they supposed to have bits and pieces of uranium enrichment machinery buried about the country-side in peoples' gardens.

If anyone wants to maintain that Saddam and company were no threat to peace, and that they had relinquished all desire for nasty weapons to use against people (their own and others) then agreement on the issue of invading Iraq is impossible to reach.

GePap · June 25, 2003, 20:19

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
The point is, they weren't supposed to have them.

Nor were they supposed to have bits and pieces of uranium enrichment machinery buried about the country-side in peoples' gardens.

If anyone wants to maintain that Saddam and company were no threat to peace, and that they had relinquished all desire for nasty weapons to use against people (their own and others) then agreement on the issue of invading Iraq is impossible to reach.

So war was necesary to get the Iraqis to hand in 12 empty chemical warheads and old bits burried for 12 years of past nulear porgrams, cause otherwise..what?

Give me a break. The inspections, ahd they been allowed to continue would have turned up most of th stuff that had any importance. The other stuff, would have been sidenotes.

Stick to the "we liberated the iraqi people" reason, cause the WMD one is really laughable.

reds4ever · June 25, 2003, 20:24

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
The point is, they weren't supposed to have them.

Nor were they supposed to have bits and pieces of uranium enrichment machinery buried about the country-side in peoples' gardens.

If anyone wants to maintain that Saddam and company were no threat to peace, and that they had relinquished all desire for nasty weapons to use against people (their own and others) then agreement on the issue of invading Iraq is impossible to reach.

Maybe Saddam knew he had numerous bits of junk lying around that he shouldn't have? He could n't come clean on the illegal material, so he tried to bareface it out.

Was he ever offered an amnesty? (i can't remember?)

Cruddy · June 25, 2003, 20:26

Maybe this new "search for WMD" is a cover for a new oil prospecting program.

Be interesting to see what turns up under the rosebushes and azaelias.

DRoseDARs · June 25, 2003, 20:28

Notyoueither, I'm one of these people who still believe that evidence, not opinion, are what matter. Yes, there are people who are still going to piss and moan about every little thing anyone who is not them does - they can sod off - but the fact of the matter is this war, it's "justifications," on top of everything already done by the Bush Administration, WILL be remembered by enough people, both in the halls of power and the general public, that the damage done will affect the USA's near future. Political clout, economic influence, military cooperation. All will be affected to one degree or another. How much? Only time will tell...

It's easy for you to sit in Canada and say what you said. Afterall, when was the last time CANADA pissed the whole world off?

You've been fortunate that you haven't fallen victim to the ugly mess of Guilt-by-Association with the USA. The UK already had a history in the Middle East, so they've got their own problems with the region; it's my perception that you Canadians haven't really inherited the stigma of bad-blood over there from either country.

Must be hard to be Canadian, what with the whole "No one hating us and declaring Jihad on us all the time" racket you got going up there...

Sandman · June 25, 2003, 21:16

Hey, this is not too bad a find. I mean, it's better than when they try to pass mustard gas off as a doomsday weapon.