PEACE diplomatic exchanges - Page 10

DeathByTheSword · October 2, 2003, 05:34

oh how evil we are

Maniac · October 2, 2003, 09:05

We have our turn, so we should send some message to tell them DBTS chose Doc:Ini. Any ideas?

DeathByTheSword · October 2, 2003, 10:52

well it is better if you send the message...explaining what happened...and also telling them i will be the new EAF...i think this is the best way...they will be hostile against me...but that can be turned to a positive thing for us over time...and offer to switch to a tech they might need so calm them a bit

Drogue · October 2, 2003, 11:10

Yes. Send the one you were going to before IMHO, but change a little to reflect that we have just discovered it. We need to tell them that we have discovered it, especially after he asked. And offer to go for Non Math next time as a peace offering, for the mistake, giving them what they wanted most. We do all that, get non math and then don't trade

. I think enough time has passed now.

Maniac · October 2, 2003, 11:47

My PM:

Hi Flubber,

Judging from the question in your previous PM, I guess you already know we are currently researching Doctrine: Initiative. I only found this out myself a few hours ago when I opened our new turn MY 2139.

In the meanwhile I've asked DeathByTheSword, who played MY 2138, for explanation. It seems the following has happened: As you probably know, Drogue was our September term Prime Function and DBTS our Second Function. Because I was very busy with ACPSG preparations and Drogue is also a bit less active than before, Second Function DBTS was asked to play the turn. But DBTS isn't a very active CyCon member, so he hadn't read the very lengthy discussions regarding the trade with you, and also not the informal poll regarding HEC I held in one of the threads dealing with PEACE: the already 273 posts long "PEACE diplomatic exchanges" thread. He just followed the orders I as External Affairs Function and Corellion as Internal Affairs Function had given. Unfortunately Corellion forgot to include the research switch to HEC in his order set. So because DBTS wasn't aware of our desire to switch to HEC, he simply selected the tech which he judged was best for our faction: Doctrine: Iniative.

I would like to offer my sincere apologies for this mistake. I understand this must be a very severe disappointment for you. To make it up partially, would you like it if I suggested the Collective to switch research to NonlMath instead of HEC after we researched Doc:Ini? That way you'll get the tech you indicated you wanted most.

There's another matter I would like to notify you of. A new month has started, and we had yet another government switch in the Consciousness. I have returned to my old post of Second Function and DeathByTheSword has volunteered to take over External Affairs. This means he will do the majority of foreign negotiations. I hope you will be able to cooperate with him well, despite his unfortunate mistake.

Greetings,

Maniac

Drogue · October 2, 2003, 12:11

Nice one, though you put September instead of October

Also, with hindsight, they may ask us to change, it being due to our mistake. We need a reason not too

Or rather, why I haven't playing this turn.

Maniac · October 2, 2003, 12:16

Quote:

Nice one, though you put September instead of October

This time I AM correct! After all the turn was played in the previous term while DBTS was still Second Function.

Quote:

Also, with hindsight, they may ask us to change, it being due to our mistake. We need a reason not too

Simply because we aren't willing to lose half of our research points.

Phenix · October 2, 2003, 12:40

Seems good

I hope this won't compromise DBTS's position with External Affairs too much...

DeathByTheSword · October 2, 2003, 13:18

oh it will be if they will focus to much on my mistakes so that they will think i am an easy prey. i will just behave as polite as i can. if they buy it everything will be ok. if they dont trust it. ok they will be angry and we have a better exuse to not give nonlmath. (they were to hostile and we dont trust them)

Drogue · October 2, 2003, 13:34

We're not going to give it to them anyway. We just want them to believe we will

Drogue · October 2, 2003, 13:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac

This time I AM correct! After all the turn was played in the previous term while DBTS was still Second Function.

Opps

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
Simply because we aren't willing to lose half of our research points.

They may say it being our mistake, and only 1/2 turns research, that we should. However I agree, it is a good reason.

Maniac · October 2, 2003, 13:49

I've had a response on my "Bad news..." PM from Flubber. He's disappointed and all that we chose again a tech that they already had, as we are friends and pactmates. In other words he's accusing us of being bad pact brothers, while they are the example of a perfect ally.

His PM was called "Re: Bad news... personal view". Because of that "personal", I've asked him if I can forward his PM to DBTS. I hope he says yes, because I'm tired of responding to these guys who seem convinced they're the perfect allies...

Drogue · October 2, 2003, 14:00

Did they buy that it was a mistake? And can you not post here? Seems a little strange if you can't being that the Prime Function cannot know what is said by opposing factions to us?

Maniac · October 2, 2003, 14:13

Ok I will post it here after all then. I was a bit reluctant to do so because Flubber told me he hasn't posted my PMs in his forum which have the words "informal" and "personal" in the title. So I thought he wouldn't want me to do so either... But I guess he should know that all PMs made in function of a democracy game are allowed to posted within the faction. So here it is:

Quote:

I actually was not aware that you had switched to doc ini-- I asumed you had switched to something we do not have in order to meet your obligations and simply wondered if HEC had been available and was chosen. ( I rarely open the game turn but HEC was the obvious choice)

I will try to work with whomever your government appoints but put simply, your actions look very much like a slap in the face to the Pirates. The fact that existing orders were to once again research something we already have shows that you folks once again had absolutely no interest in trying to settle outstanding obligations.

Doc ini makes absolutely no sense for you folks if you were thinking of us at all as allies !!! restrictions lifting and airpower are the logical choices while going to doc ini first looks and feels like you are trying to challenge us at sea. WE went doc ini due to our large number of seabases. We obviously need to maintain superiority at sea from hostile powers ( AI and any humans that prove hostile) but I am frankly baffled why your standing orders would go that route. We are the biggest sea power and we are your frinds and pactmates !!!!

This is very very bad news-- My miscommunication with herc was genuine and would have resulted in a one turn delay in getting doc flex to you. I will assume your miscommunication was also genuine but the mere fact that the standing orders called for the research of doc flex speaks volumes about your intentions.
q:

I am guessing that I now know what johnd was writing about on that other board

. My reaction when you mentioned it was that "you gotta be kidding". It just does not make sense that you folks go doc ini-- none at all . . . I am baffled and bewildered

Flub

I responded:

Quote:

Hi Flubber,

Quote:

The fact that existing orders were to once again research something we already have...

The existing informal orders were to research High Energy Chemistry. DeathByTheSword chosing Doc:Ini was a mistake.

Quote:

the mere fact that the standing orders called for the research of doc flex speaks volumes about your intentions.

...

Our intentions for researching DocFlex were to meet other factions. As I have said before, in the past you refused to trade DocFlex, you refused to trade maps. So the logical conclusion is that if we want to explore and meet other factions, we have to do it on our own. Correct?

Flubber, I am no longer External Affairs Function. Your message is titled "personal view", but would you mind if I forwarded it to DeathByTheSword so he can respond further to it if he likes?

Greetings,

Maniac

My response to him saying researching DocFlex speaks volumes may not be so diplomatic.
(I first wanted to write "So the logical conclusion is that if we want to explore and meet other factions, we have to do it on our own and not count on anyone else. Correct, my friend and pact mate?", but that would probably have been just a bit too sarcastic.

)
Anyway, when he notices I'm a bit pissed off, he might consider my response more honest instead of merely showing pretended politeness, so there's a bigger chance he will also believe it when I say above that Doc:Ini was a mistake.

Corellion · October 2, 2003, 15:57

And now the gamut comes into play. Will they believe it? Will they cancel the pact? Will they go to war?

DeathByTheSword · October 2, 2003, 16:07

well it would be onlogical to go to war. I think they see us as a unwilling milking cow...so we must play that role maybe even play a little bit along and give then like 10 Ec as a sorry sign...(we wont really mis 10 Ec will we?)...we need there pact as long as we can....i havent recieved anything yet from flubber. but maniac already responded so i dont have anything to do right now....but if he asked me for an explaination i will give one...

but what about the 10 Ec idea? it will make us look submissive...it can work out very well

Corellion · October 2, 2003, 16:09

But keep in mind that we don't want to be pacted when we start our military build-up... that will be a dead giveaway.

Maniac · October 2, 2003, 17:27

Who knows they have already infiltrated us. Or is that probe foil being built meant for us.

DeathByTheSword · October 2, 2003, 18:36

can`t we tell them a story about defending against a possible believer attack? or won`t they buy that...we can even ask there help so that they will send some ships to support us...those ships will be easy probe targets or something like that...

DeathByTheSword · October 3, 2003, 04:38

the pirates are taking long to play there turn...this may indicate that they are planning hostile actions against us...i must stress or paying a small amount of Ec. as compication or accelerate your military build up.

Maniac · October 3, 2003, 09:45

I got this mail from Hercules. It seems Flubber is not telling the rest of PEACE what we're saying... I forwarded him the PM I sent to Flubber on the matter.

>Prime Functions Mani- Alpha -3 And Drogue Beta 8.
>
>See your reply to us below. However in the actual turn you are researching Doc:
>Init. Please explain and advise.
>
>Peter Steenbeke wrote:
>
> > Oh darn. I read your mail just now. I'm afraid I ordered to trade with the
> > AI. :-( Since PEACE stopped negotiating after I sent the turn to you, I
> > assumed you were no longer interested in the deal.
> > In any case, a majority of the Collective was in favour of switching
> > research to HEC after we got DocFlex, so we'll be able to finally finish the
> > IndAut deal in some four years, and start with a clean slate. :-)
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Maniac

Drogue · October 3, 2003, 10:21

Offer 10 ec as an apology. We won't miss it and we need to stay Pacted until we are ready. Do it soon too so it miht quell their warmongering ideas. As Prime Function I could do it if you wish?

Quote:

Dear Flubber,

I write to you as Prime Function to apologise for the mix-up regarding our turn-playing. With holidays and absenses things in the CyCon had been a bit mixed up as of late, and so DBTS simply played the turn with what orders were there, and doing what he saw as best. Since Corellion had not yet posted the switch to HEC, as it was to be a late addition when the poll finished. Please consider this a formal apology on behalf of the CyCon, and accept our gift of 10ec which we will put in the diplomacy box when we get the turn.

I am sorry for this mix up. As Maniac has said, we are willing to research Nonlinear Mathemetics next, if you wish, to trade the tech you ideally wanted (IIRC).

Yours,
Prime Function Drogue Beta-8"

Drogue · October 3, 2003, 10:24

Can I send that to Herc and Flubber. I'll add "I am sorry not to have informed you sooner. Maniac explained the situation to Flubber, but he may not have been able to pass the message on yet". And then send that message?

Corellion · October 3, 2003, 10:39

It looks good. And besides, we can always get back the 10 EC later

DeathByTheSword · October 3, 2003, 11:09

send it

Drogue · October 3, 2003, 11:16

Have PMed Flubber with:

Quote:

Dear Ambassador Flubber,

I write to you as Prime Function to apologise for the mix-up regarding our turn-playing. With holidays and absences things in the CyCon had been a bit mixed up as of late, and so DBTS simply played the turn with what orders were there, and doing what he saw as best. Since Corellion had not yet posted the switch to HEC, as it was to be a late addition because of the poll finishing, DBTS had no knowledge of what to choose next. Please consider this a formal apology on behalf of the CyCon, and accept our gift of 10ec, which we will put in the diplomacy box when we get the turn.

I am sorry for this mix up. As Maniac has said, we are willing to research Nonlinear Mathemetics next, if you wish, to trade the tech you ideally wanted (IIRC).

Yours,
Prime Function Drogue Beta-8

and have emailed Herc with:

Quote:

Dear Captain Hercules

I am sorry not to have informed you sooner. Maniac explained the situation to Flubber a day or two ago, but he may not have been able to pass the message on yet. Here is a copy of the message I sent to Flubber, explaining and apologising for the mix-up.

"I write to you as Prime Function to apologise for the mix-up regarding our turn-playing. With holidays and absenses things in the CyCon had been a bit mixed up as of late, and so DBTS simply played the turn with what orders were there, and doing what he saw as best. Since Corellion had not yet posted the switch to HEC, as it was to be a late addition becuase of the poll finishing, DBTS had no idea about the latest diplomacy. Please consider this a formal apology on behalf of the CyCon, and accept our gift of 10ec which we will put in the diplomacy box when we get the turn.

I am sorry for this mix up. As Maniac has said, we are willing to research Nonlinear Mathemetics next, if you wish, to trade the tech you ideally wanted (IIRC)."

DBTS has not been that active a member in the last couple of months, and so has not been up to date with negotiations. As I said to Flubber, I am truly sorry for the mix-up, and we are willing both to research Nonlinear Math and trade that, if you wish, and gift you 10ec as an apology.

Yours,
Prime Function Drogue Beta-8

Let's hope it's enough

Maniac · October 3, 2003, 11:18

One slight remark: in my PM to Flubber I claimed that the poll to switch to HEC was an informal one held in this thread hundreds-of-posts long thread. That would make it seem more likely that DBTS could have missed the poll. May I therefore, just to be sure, suggest to switch

Quote:

as it was to be a late addition when the poll finished.

to

Quote:

as it was to be a late addition when our informal HEC poll ended.

?

Edit: Darn. Too late!

Corellion · October 3, 2003, 11:45

A minor point.

Drogue · October 3, 2003, 11:52

I wouldn't worry. I didn't say it was an official poll. They don't know that all our polls aren't quick write-in polls. So if he asks, that is what I'll say. We have contradicted each other, I just left the informality out. It won't cause a problem.

Googlie · October 3, 2003, 13:56