RIAA vs. hackers WAR?

[Pekka]

So when do you guys think it happens?
To me, it's clearly a matter of time when dedicated hackers are angry to RIAAs arrogance. Don't ever underestimate the power of these guys, hackers from all over the world.

RIAA is clearly staring a war against file-sharing, suing people left to right for ridiculous amounts of money and pressuring. So, when does the community strike back?
Organized big attacks, where they destroy their networks, give them something else to think about than suing people who shares files? What do you think will happen? I see it only as a matter of time, and RIAA WILL lose.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Pekka
give them something else to think about than suing ordinary people?

Ordinary people = thieves?

[Pekka]

DD, It's another discussion, the ethics of file-sharing and is it stealing and are those people criminal.

Let's focus on the becoming war .

[DinoDoc]

Why? The mafia doesn't like it when you crack down on thier activities. Why should the hacker community be different?

[Pekka]

Why? Because this thread is about the possible war, what happens in it, how it goes, and everything that has to do with the war.

If you want to talk about the legal sides of file-sharing or their low morals, then you should start your own thread about it!

[Pekka]

Ok, I edited my original message a bit. Happy?
You are welcome to give your predictions here.

[Sava]

Ordinary people = thieves?

Copying files on a computer is not stealing... never will be.

[Whaleboy]

Go hacker!!!

When I buy a CD, its mine, I can do as I wish with it, including let people listen to it. Its not stealing anyway, economically speaking, by downloading or distributing a file, I am merely reducing the size of their POTENTIAL market, something that happens everyday in the turbulent world of consumer economics, including to a far greater extent, bad album reviews etc.

Business must evolve to cope with new technologies, and must work with people like hackers as opposed to against them, history has shown that the hacker will prevail (If I want to copy a protected cd, I'll shove a phono lead from my cd player into my soundcard, and record, its less convenient than cdparanoia, but hey I can cope, I like having my entire music collection on my HDD).

If business fails to evolve, then it will die, that is the nature of the free market, it is a double-edged sword. If these corps want to stay in business, they gotta stop moaning about power being taken from them and given to the consumer, and actually create products that will make them money.

In any war, the hackers have the tactical and moral advantage imo, also enormously useful tools and allies in open source software. The battle can only go one way, if we are given means to play the media they sell us, then we can copy it.

With regards to ownership, when I buy an album, it is mine, and the IP on it, I have bought a part share in it and thus free to do as I wish with the copy I have. A more radical and idealistic idea of mine is that once someone puts data in the public domain, it is public property.

[Sava]

The RIAA has to prove that people downloading music would have normally bought their crap anyways. I have about 200-300 songs from artist and albums that I've downloaded that I would not have bought. It's not theft, no matter how much those Bentley driving, diamond wearing, Beverly Hills living *******s say it is.

[Velociryx]

My money's on the "hackers."



-=Vel=-

[Pekka]

Yeah, mine too. They can't be won. It's impossible to destroy them, and they have a thing for certain principals, so I don't think they'll be giving up.

[Oerdin]

The RIAA doesn't have to destroy the hackers to win. They just have to keep going after all the people they can and more and more people will stop offering their MP3 on line out of fear of getting sued by the RIAA. I image people will still try to download but the number of songs available for download will be less and less.

Did you notice the RIAA said they were going to target people who offer large numbers of files for download? The solution is to remove files from your shared directory and instead just download the files you want. You'd be a leach but since you're not offering anything for download the RIAA can't take you to court.

[Oerdin]

How long before Peer to Peer networks offer anomyous downloads with encrypted files? That would throw a monkey wrench into the RIAA's plans.

[Sava]

Good point, Oerdin!

If anything, the RIAA will just fuel piraters and hackers to create more anonymous methods. They might spark a revolution in file-sharing.



way to go RIAA!

[Soul Survivor]

i posted this yesterday but no one seemed to notice......

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/interne....ap/index.html

i periodically remove files from my shared folder to conserve bandwidth but i usually offer 200-500 mp3's for others to download

[Sava]

bless your heart

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Oerdin
How long before Peer to Peer networks offer anomyous downloads with encrypted files? That would throw a monkey wrench into the RIAA's plans.

Freenet does it already. Okay, probably no encryption, but it's a true P2P with no central servers, and the software does not reveal the location of any particular files.

[Pekka]

It's only a matter of time when hackers develop better tools to avoid scannings etc. People start using more proxys etc. Better ways to hide your IP comes available.
More encrypted methods. It will continue and continue, but RIAA will always be two steps behind. That is when it comes to p2p-networks, true leeching happens via FTPs anyway .

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Freenet does it already. Okay, probably no encryption, but it's a true P2P with no central servers, and the software does not reveal the location of any particular files.

The RIAA hunts you down the same way Ming hunts down the DLs. IP addresses.

[Boris Godunov]

The RIAA is fighting a losing battle, and in the process alienating pretty much everyone except their rich stars.

They should accept the inevitable, embrace file sharing and devise ways to profit from it if they want to stay alive. Otherwise, they will go the way of the Dodo.

[Sava]

IP addresses.

one word=PROXIES!

[Oerdin]

Can you tell me how to set up a proxy server to use as a front for downloading music? Didn't think so...

[Agathon]

You know, if the record companies would just wake up to reality and realize that to stay in business they are going to take a revenue hit, they might actually survive.

I don't mind paying for music off the web as long as it's cheap, it stays mine and I don't have to pay a subscription fee. I mean, how dumb are these guys? They want you to pay 10 bucks a month just to keep listening to the stuff you download. Only an idiot would pay for that. Hilary Rosen seems to think that the model for buying online music should be such as this:

1) Turn on your computer.
2) Lower your trousers.
3) Bend over.

and

4) Clench your teeth.

If they realize in time that something like Apple's music store is the way it is going to be then they might be saved. Otherwise the pirates are just going to eat them up, because they were too dumb to provide good downloads with minimal DRM at a reasonable price. I buy a lot of music. I'd buy stuff if it was offered like that.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The RIAA hunts you down the same way Ming hunts down the DLs. IP addresses.

How would the RIAA find any IP address? They couldn't, that's why they sued Verizon (sp?) to hand them over.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Can you tell me how to set up a proxy server to use as a front for downloading music? Didn't think so...

it's easy... all you need to do is use the proxy server to redirect people. Many probably already do it.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Oerdin

The RIAA hunts you down the same way Ming hunts down the DLs. IP addresses.

Do they think this will work? First of all you can't really get any money out of the children who are a large proportion of file sharers and you can't send them to jail. Secondly, the costs of hunting down and prosecuting every single infringer are prohibitive. And if they don't go after everyone, what's the point?

For example:

Judge: "Agathon, you have been found guilty of illegally downloading "Barry Manilow's Greatest Hits". You are hereby fined 10,000 dollars or you must serve 30 days in jail."

Agathon: "OK, see you in a month."

RIAA. "You know, putting Agathon in jail just cost us 30,000 bucks. That's more than he would spend on music in his whole life."

[Pekka]

Boris, I agree. They should realize it sooner than later.

They are using scare tactics, putting people to jail and suing them for huge amounts of money. As if it will help.
They trust, that when they throw away the big sharers, then at some point there will be nothing left to share. Also, that cows will fly.

Has this ever stopped anything? Not really.. People have been hacking into networks always, they are put in jail. Does it stop? Nope. Does it slow down hackers? No. Are there less hackers trying it? No.

What about groups that releases software, movies and games? They are put in jail, some were even arrested at gun point. Next to Bubba. Worldwide arrests where happening when notorious group was demolished that controlled the scene for YEARS, for example releasing windows 95. What happened? Few paranoid people babbling in forums, but eventually it only created more space to new groups to come into the scene, and older ones getting more secure. They work in cells now, just like terrorists. They don't know each other, only co-ordinators know their own cells, but the idea is that if one gets caught, he can't talk about others, as they don't know who they are, or nothing about them. They have scattered their sites too, only accessing to certain sites, not all groups sites. They use encryption, ssl-authentication, idents, and the whole nine yards.

You can throw 10 more operation Buccaneers etc. but it will not stop, they only makes them stronger and more organized, and the grass root leechers are not missing anything out, only getting more and more and easier and faster. It hasn't happened in that scene, so I can not expect it to happen in p2p-networks either, sincen the amounts of people using them and already hooked in them are just too huge. Peoples collective wisdom will always prevail RIAAs workers and their helpers. It is a fact.

So, that's why I agree with Boris, that instead of making it only harder for themselves, they should think about ways of benefitting from this and get with the program.

[Sava]

big deal, look at the war on drugs, agathon... billions are wasted each year in terms of prison, law enforcement resources, and covert ops in drug producing countries, when it could be LEGAL, TAXED, and CONTROLLED.

You think the government is going to care about wasting money? BWAHAHAH that's a good one. And with the RIAA lining pockets and greasing palms, they have Washington's ear.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Sava
it's easy... all you need to do is use the proxy server to redirect people. Many probably already do it.

In order to work on a mass scale it would have to be simple enough for joe-6-pack to be able to figure it out. Remember joe-6-pack can't even figure out how to how to adjust the volume on his computer so the future is not bright for mass proxy use.

[Shi Huangdi]

So what exactly could the hackers do the RIAA besides deface www.riaa.org