When Soccer meets American Football.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Interesting article of what happened with West Ham goalkeeper, David James, came to the Miami Dolphins training camp just to play around:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/6162963.htm

`They're not the dinosaurs they seem on the telly. They're so much faster than they look.'

BRITISH SOCCER STAR DAVID JAMES, ON AMERICAN FOOTBALL PLAYERS

Turns out one of England's best footballers can't kick a football. At least not one with pointed ends.

England national goalkeeper David James, among the biggest soccer players in Europe at 6 feet 5 inches and 218 pounds, thought it would be fun to spend a day training with an NFL team. Frankly, he said, it didn't look all that hard.

The NFL, eager to heighten global exposure, was happy to grant James' wish. A dozen British journalists were on hand at Miami Dolphins camp Tuesday morning as James -- dressed in full pads and a No. 1 jersey -- spent nearly four hours working out with kicker Olindo Mare, quarterback Jay Fiedler, receiver James McKnight and defensive back Terrell Buckley.

So how did James do?

• He held his own as a receiver with his leaping ability and excellent hand-eye coordination.

• His passes had distance, but he had trouble throwing a spiral, despite Fiedler's reminders to ``hold it with your fingertips, not your palm.''

• Oddly, James had the most trouble kicking, saying it was ''completely foreign'' to him.

''It's not what I thought it was,'' James said of his NFL experience. ``It's a lot harder. When you see a 25-stone [350-pound] guy actually moving next to you, you realize they're not the dinosaurs they seem on the telly. They're so much faster than they look.''

He was particularly impressed with running back Ricky Williams.

`A TANK'

''The guy is a tank,'' he said. ``I saw him from the back first and he's as wide as he is tall. Nice bloke, as well. You can really see why he's able to do what he does on the field. He let loose on our last sprint and left me in his wake. Don't have anyone like that in England.''

Dolphins players were equally complimentary of James.

''He's a hell of an athlete,'' McKnight said. ``With a little fine-tuning, and some footwork, he could be a good wide receiver. His hand-eye coordination is superb. I could see him doing any sport, dunking a basketball, playing volleyball, long jumping, anything.''

James had looked up the NFL field goal record (63 yards) before his trip and thought ''no big deal''. He can crank a round ball the length of a soccer field, so how hard could a 63-yard field goal be?

Mare, an avid soccer fan and former soccer player, gave the goalkeeper precise instructions on how to strike the oblong ball. But James shanked right on most of his 30-yard field goal attempts, kickoffs and punts. When he finally split the uprights, he beamed.

The Dolphins, except for Mare, had never heard of James. They had no idea he makes $2 million a year. They didn't know he is in the news this summer because his club, West Ham, was relegated from Premiership to First Division and there was question whether that would hurt has status on the national team.

What they do know, after four hours with him, is that he is a world-class athlete. James has the strongest arms among English goalies and is known for preparation and fitness. His physique also caught the eye of Georgio Armani, for whom James has modeled on and off over the past seven years.

''I can't speak for other NFL players, but I have always respected soccer players,'' McKnight said. ``They must be the best conditioned athletes in the world with the amount of running they do. I've always been amazed at their endurance and precision and accuracy with the ball at their feet.''

Asked how he'd do at a West Ham practice, McKnight smiled and replied, ``I'd do fine for one day. It's the second day I'd be worried about.''

Buckley was not as gushing on soccer. Asked to name a soccer player, he thought for a moment and said, ''There's that dude who just signed for $41 million [David Beckham].'' That's where his list ended.

SOCCER EASY?

He suggested to Mare that soccer was easier than football, that ''most of the guys just stand around or jog.'' Mare shook his head and informed his teammate that the average NFL play lasts less than 10 seconds while soccer players are in motion for 45-minute halves with no timeouts or huddles.

Mare then grabbed a soccer ball, and challenged Buckley to defend him. Fat chance. Buckley might be able to tackle a 225-pound receiver on the move and pick off a spiraling football, but stealing a soccer ball from Mare's foot proved harder than he imagined.

Mare, who hasn't played soccer seriously in 14 years, dribbled past Buckley left, right, and center. Both players laughed as Mare made his point.

''These guys wouldn't last in a professional soccer game,'' said Mare, son of an Italian immigrant and huge Juventus fan. ``People here have no idea how hard it is.''

James said the feeling is mutual. ''Back home, there's a misconception that American footballers are really big guys who hurt people,'' he said. ``There isn't an appreciation for their athletic ability. I will set them straight.''

[Dauphin]

• Oddly, James had the most trouble kicking, saying it was ''completely foreign'' to him.

Not odd for anyone whose watched him play football.

[Dauphin]

Johnny Wilkinson should have a go.

[Paul Hanson]

The reason James claimed that kicking is foreign to him is because he's a goalkeeper and doesn't do as much of it as other football players.

That, and he's actually quite a bad footy player, as BC pointed out.

[Sava]

AMERICAN FOOTBALL? DON'T YOU MEAN REAL FOOTBALL?

DA BEARS!

[Agathon]

American Football is for girls.

Look at Rugby and Rugby League. No pads and these guys don't stop for "rests".

[rah]

Sava, you forgot the BANK ONE part.

[FrustratedPoet]

He held his own as a receiver with his leaping ability and excellent hand-eye coordination.

I'm sure my fellow Brits will join me in a big round of at the thought of James trying to catch a spiralling oval ball while being pressured by a mean safety who's gonna cripple him as soon as he catches it.

He has HUGE trouble catching a nice spherical soccer ball, while wearing fancy catching gloves, and when any opposition player who so much as breathes on him will give up a foul.

He does have good hand-eye coordination (after all his short-range shotstopping is first class), but this talent always deserts him when he needs to catch the ball rather than parry it.

[FrustratedPoet]

Also, to Mare and James for their comments in respect of the other athletes.

Why some people seem to place these two sports in competition with one another, and argue about which is better, is beyond me. They're completely different games that happen to share the same name. Big ****ing deal.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Look at Rugby and Rugby League. No pads and these guys don't stop for "rests".

Yeah, but they also don't have 350 pound guys that can run faster than you or I can .

Why some people seem to place these two sports in competition with one another, and argue about which is better, is beyond me.

Beats me. I like both . Just want to open the eyes of some that disparage on or the other sport (in this thread so far we have Sava and Agathon ).

[Frankychan]

I think it's pretty hypocritical that we want to globalize American Football, but don't give Soccer ( ) a chance here.

[Poogas]

Originally posted by Agathon
American Football is for girls.

Look at Rugby and Rugby League. No pads and these guys don't stop for "rests".

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
Why some people seem to place these two sports in competition with one another, and argue about which is better, is beyond me. They're completely different games that happen to share the same name. Big ****ing deal.

I agree with Frustratedpoet completely... Thought I would just put those two posts side by side.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I give soccer a chance here Franky!! I just wish MLS expanded to Atlanta .

[FredLC]

I myself had some misconceptions about american football before I got ESPN at my place. But when I actually saw the game, I noticed that it's a very strategical and interesting thing to see (I can't make myself like baseball, though ).

Also, it's not really more violent than footb... - well, I'll refer to it as soccer for comprehension's sake - ... than soccer. Because in the american game, you expect to be knocked down. However in soccer, when a player comes sliding with his feet up high and hits the guy in the knee... well, it can cripple someone very easily.

So, the two excuses most people here in Brazil have NOT to like american football are, IMHO, pure BS. It's a very enjoyable sport.

As for soccer, well, I think USA is bound to develop a liking for it. I mean, it's happening already, there is a league and that only will make the number of fans grow. Also, there are so many foreigners living in there that it's impossible to imagine that this aspect of their culture won't come along.

Trust me, after you get a liking for it, there is no coming back. If you want to see what soccer can be like, try looking for:

- The 1970's Brazil national team in the World cup - Pele's primetime, and the man is the King;

- The 1974's Netherland's national team - the clockwork orange was a soccer machine;

- The 1982's Brazil - best national team we ever had IMHO, even better than the amazing 1970 team. It was soccer at it's best, but unfortunately it didn't win that year;

- The 1986's Argentina - Maradonna's prime. Now that was one little fella that could play ball.

Oh, only thing I want don't get and want to ask for USA citzens... why the heck you guys decided to name that sport "football"? The damn thing is not played with the feet 99% of the time, and that oval thing is hardly a ball...

Regards .

[Imran Siddiqui]

The 1982's Brazil - best national team we ever had IMHO, even better than the amazing 1970 team. It was soccer at it's best, but unfortunately it didn't win that year;

WOW... better than the 70 team?! That must have been a sight to see then .

Oh, only thing I want don't get and want to ask for USA citzens... why the heck you guys decided to name that sport "football"? The damn thing is not played with the feet 99% of the time, and that oval thing is hardly a ball...

It's a name given to the sport fairly early before it evolved into what it is now. Remember, in England, you had Association Football (soccer) and Rugby Football. Early American Football was based on the Rugby game, and evolved from there... but we kept the name.

Although some have called it 'Gridiron' over the years.

[Frozzy]

And Handmelon

[yavoon]

they need to score more goals in soccer or america will just watch the worldcup every 4 years=[. we have basketball and football both are superior spectator sports so the best soccer can do is catch up to hockey. which also is more exciting to watch.

if u like soccer u'll like watching soccer. like golf/sailing/motorcycle racing/etc... but basketball and football are real spectator sports

[FredLC]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui WOW... better than the 70 team?! That must have been a sight to see then .

Well, History is cruel to those who loose, and they lost that crucial semi-final to Italy.

A honest victory for the Azurra, if you ask me. All the goals they made were legit; and if in fact there was a penalty kick for Brazil that was ignored (the italian guy actually thorn Zico's shirt, and the referee acted as if he had faked it ), there was also a legal goal for Italy that the referee didn't validate.

However, it was honest but not fair. I've seen that game many times (all sport channels use to replay old WC games here in Brazil when the next WC is near), and I can honestly say, Brazil kicked ass. It played much better than Italy, and the lost was a fatality of destiny. I use to joke with friends that if that Brazil and that Italy had played 40 times in a row, Brazil would have won 39 times and had lost only that game.

Anyway, it's all in the past, so let's focus on what that team could do. All players - no exception - were masters at dribble. If defenders had to face them one on one, they were in real trouble, because those frontman would win an unbelievable percentage of the disputes.

Also, very rarely a player would touch the ball twice. They would do mostly one-touch passes, keep the ball running one side to the other, and the adversaries running after it like crazy, untill they were too tired to even walk. An everlasting "Olé", as we like to put it.

Even the first line of defenders - and let alone the offensive mid-field -were great at passing, even long aereal passes. So, the foes never knew if we were to strike with a series of short passes or a surprise ball sent in the back of the defender for a sudden attack.

Last but not least, there were at least four players who were masters with free kicks. Zico, specially, was extraordinary. People say that he used to place a shirt in the top corner of the goal to use as target when he was training, and sometimes he, shooting from twice the distance of the goal area, have managed to hit it up to 10 times in a row.

Really, it was an honest defeat, but an highly unfair one. If we had one generation that really deserved being world champions, it was that one. Those guys really kicked ass.

Regards .

[FredLC]

Originally posted by yavoon
they need to score more goals in soccer or america will just watch the worldcup every 4 years=[. we have basketball and football both are superior spectator sports so the best soccer can do is catch up to hockey. which also is more exciting to watch.

if u like soccer u'll like watching soccer. like golf/sailing/motorcycle racing/etc... but basketball and football are real spectator sports

Of course it's a matter of taste, but the point is that the fun of the sport is not only in scoring. It's also in a great dribble and in an outstanding pass. When you see someone use the back of his foot to make the ball goes below the adversarie's legs, and runs away as he looses balance and falls, that's a lot of fun.

Also, I like that there aren't that many goals. It makes each goal a special moment, something to wait for and remember, true highlights in the game.

Regards .

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Look at Rugby and Rugby League. No pads and these guys don't stop for "rests".

Yeah, but they also don't have 350 pound guys that can run faster than you or I can .

Have you never heard of Jonah Lomu? He's about 20-22 stone (280-308 pounds) and he runs a hundred in under 11 seconds. Or Jason Robinson who is a lot smaller (still built like a brick outhouse though) and runs a hundred in 10.6 This without pads, without breaks, and without being able to pass forward, meaning you can't just sneak up to the touchdown area and catch the ball.

Why some people seem to place these two sports in competition with one another, and argue about which is better, is beyond me.

True, they are both good. American Football is watched by millions in the US, Soccer by millions outside the US. I'd love to play American Football, but we don't have any teams around here

[Az]

Both sports are great, both are fun to watch, and both demand lots of athletic capability.

The name "Football" should really belong to European football. I don't mind "Soccer", but it feels weird, and I have no idea what it means.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by FredLC


Of course it's a matter of taste, but the point is that the fun of the sport is not only in scoring. It's also in a great dribble and in an outstanding pass. When you see someone use the back of his foot to make the ball goes below the adversarie's legs, and runs away as he looses balance and falls, that's a lot of fun.

Also, I like that there aren't that many goals. It makes each goal a special moment, something to wait for and remember, true highlights in the game.

Regards .

my pt is the casual fan will enjoy football/basketball the most. both have the most amts of "highlights." both are fast moving. u can go an entire game in soccer w/ only 3-4 important(to a novice) things happening. and thats just not enuff.

[Drogue]

Well it is better for many. Basketball is just people dribbling up and scoring, and then dribbling back and scoring. Its too many, there is nothing special in it, except the *very* few times that someone scores from behind halfway, for example. Each goal in football is an event, and millions all around the world love it. I think the casual fan will think that American Football is all stop and start, almost like a more exiting version of cricket, and basketball is just going up and down and scoring, with a miss being an event that could decide a match, not a piece of brilliant skill. But this is all speculation. Millions watch each. Basketball mostly confined to the US, football mostly to everywhere but the US.

[lightblue]

To be honest I have to say that even as a basketball (or former now, rowing takes too much time) player myself, basketball is not the greatest spectator sport. Yes there's some spectacular actions (2-3 a game), but a lot of it ( about 3 quarters worth) is just fairly dull and meaningless.

As for American Football, it'd be better in my opinion if the breaks between plays wasn't that long. That and cut the commercial breaks, and just lengthen the break between halves to accomodate the commercials.

Soccer is more fun to watch (depending on the teams) as because of the low scoring the game is always on knife edge. One mistake, or one moment of brilliance, can cost you the game. That and it is a better drinking game in the pub.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by FredLC


Of course it's a matter of taste, but the point is that the fun of the sport is not only in scoring. It's also in a great dribble and in an outstanding pass. When you see someone use the back of his foot to make the ball goes below the adversarie's legs, and runs away as he looses balance and falls, that's a lot of fun.

Also, I like that there aren't that many goals. It makes each goal a special moment, something to wait for and remember, true highlights in the game.

Regards .

If thats the sort of opinion that FOOTBALL is up against in America it may as well either give up or make the goals bigger and turn the halves into quaters.

American Football isn't a bad game I watch the NFL quite a lot, but as for basketball (or mens netball as it's known in the UK) I refuse to take any sport seriously where a team can win a game 134-135 simply by scoring last!

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Drogue
Well it is better for many. Basketball is just people dribbling up and scoring, and then dribbling back and scoring. Its too many, there is nothing special in it, except the *very* few times that someone scores from behind halfway, for example. Each goal in football is an event, and millions all around the world love it. I think the casual fan will think that American Football is all stop and start, almost like a more exiting version of cricket, and basketball is just going up and down and scoring, with a miss being an event that could decide a match, not a piece of brilliant skill. But this is all speculation. Millions watch each. Basketball mostly confined to the US, football mostly to everywhere but the US.

u can disagree w/ me, but no need to be so defensive. basketball actually can be picked up very quickly from a spectator's viewpoint cuz momentum is instantly translated into the score. 7-2 runs, 19-0 runs, 10 pts down, 2 pts up. all easy for a novice to interpret and get into throughout the game.

lots of ppl watch soccer and will continue to, but america is the most diverse sports culture and the concept of what casual spectators watch is a big deal here(money wise). lots of our sports have changed to be more casual spectator friendly. baseball lowered its mound, football tightened up calls on defense, etc. and now hockey is under a similar pressure.

in europe sports seem to be more sacred and changing them constitutes some sort of rewriting of the bible. so obviously u r not use to the competition

[FredLC]

Originally posted by yavoon
in europe sports seem to be more sacred and changing them constitutes some sort of rewriting of the bible. so obviously u r not use to the competition

I can agree with this. There are some changes I'd like to see being done in soccer, at least for attempting.

1 - Like, limit the number of individual fouls - if a player makes five, he's out of the match, and have to be replaced.

2 - Cut that silly limitation for substitutions - let the coach manage the team freely, it will make the game far more strategical, as the coachs will be able to set teams to respond for specific in-game situations.

3 - Finally, diminish the halfs to 35 minutes and introduce a clock that stops when there is a foul or the ball goes out.

FIFA, however, is unwilling to experiment even things far less invasive than those...

[yavoon]

Originally posted by FredLC


I can agree with this. There are some changes I'd like to see being done in soccer, at least for attempting.

1 - Like, limit the number of individual fouls - if a player makes five, he's out of the match, and have to be replaced.

2 - Cut that silly limitation for substitutions - let the coach manage the team freely, it will make the game far more strategical, as the coachs will be able to set teams to respond for specific in-game situations.

3 - Finally, diminish the halfs to 35 minutes and introduce a clock that stops when there is a foul or the ball goes out.

FIFA, however, is unwilling to experiment even things far less invasive than those...

offsides kills so many goals in soccer its ridiculous. so much excitement is raped by the offsides penalty. I don't know enough about soccer to suggest how to change it. but its pretty easy to see that its a huge culprit.

and yah free substitutions! GOGO

[Drogue]

yavoon: I was not trying to be defensive, merely putting the other view accross. I am sorry if it caused offence, it was not intended to. I just found it a bit weird that someone was saying what would appeal more to the spectator. IIRC more watch Soccer, since it is watched in many countries.

It is interesting that people from the US seem to think that they're games are better, like your arguing with the competition thing. Yes there is big money if sport in the US, and it is the most diverse single nation in tersm of sport. But the US compared to the rest of the world together, the rest of the world has more in all but advertising and commercialism. I like Basketball, but find it a bit tedios watching a whole game, and am not fond of the idea of having a series of 7 games between two teams to decide the winner. Just my opinions though.

[reds4ever]

FIFA have been bending over backwards to relax the offside rule the last 5 or so years, short of scrapping it theres not a lot else the can do.
IMHO more subs = less skill, the game will be played faster because players know they can go off for a rest after running around like headless chickens for 10 minutes