What is your opinion of the United States?

Kramerman · July 6, 2003, 04:40

I was watching a program about world opinion on the US. I knew things were bad... but geez... it made it seem like everyone in the world is screaming for US blood. Something like 70% of France had a negative opinion of America. Something like 70% of Russians genuinely feared American military action. (i dont remember the exact percentages from the poll they showed)

The people tried to explained the reasons for the anti-americanism, and said the main cause was the "your with us or against us" attitude and the general 'cowboy' and 'bulley' that the world perceives the US as.
But this seems to simple... this doesnt seem to explain why so many people's opinion of the US has seemed to plummit over the years. Or is this all just my imagination? fed by shows like the one i saw?

Asher · July 6, 2003, 04:45

I think it is a cute fertile land

Az · July 6, 2003, 04:46

I think many people are whining. I don't particularly like the US, but the thing is, most of the people that are whining about it, esp. Russians, and French, just hate the fact that it's not their country that is in a position to dictate things to the world, but the US is.

This doesn't mean I am for the US dictating world policy, god forbid. I just think that lots of people are hypocritical.

You know, in some threads about the usual screw-up of the US government, I want to come and mock it, and then a bunch of *******s come, and start to sling mud at the US like a bunch of baboons for all the wrong reasons, and targetting the wrong areas. I am actually forced to make a U-turn and defend the US! It's ****ing inconcievable! And you know that these people would go apeshit If you ever said anything like that about their country ( in the areas that matter, of course). And you've got nothing else to do, but shake your head, and walk away.

yavoon · July 6, 2003, 04:47

I think it kicks ass

Bugs ****ing Bunny · July 6, 2003, 04:48

Big, wealthy nation. Makes nice wine and terrible beer.

Az · July 6, 2003, 04:51

Big nation. Makes big crappy cars.

BeBro · July 6, 2003, 04:56

Overall positive. But not always. But then I think the same about Europe

I absolutely agree with Azazel´s comments - people are whining too much. Everyone can criticise everything, but in case the US many just seem to be whining.

Quote:

This doesn't mean I am for the US dictating world policy, god forbid. I just think that lots of people are hypocritical.

Absolutely agree.

And what I especially don´t like is when people only see those points of the US that fit into their anti US views. I would ciriticise some US actions too, but still one has to admit that there are lots of positive elements too. The old "Us is soooo evil" story is just pathetic nonsense.

HershOstropoler · July 6, 2003, 05:05

The problem is that Americans get increasingly identified with the nutjobs running your country at the moment. Until recently, most people here saw Americans as a bit crazy, but overall nice, and politicians are politicians. Now the nicest things I hear about Americans is pigs, idiots and *******s.

Yet if it comforts you, the attitude does not "scream for blood", just for "**** off".

Urban Ranger · July 6, 2003, 05:07

The US is not monolithic.

A lot of Usians are nice and helpful, others are not. It's just that now most people from the rest of the world detest the W regime.

Berzerker · July 6, 2003, 05:32

Quote:

I think it is a cute fertile land

Yes, we must thank Canada for all that nice soil the glaciers brought our way.

Considering what powerful nations have done in the past, the USA certainly deserves alot of credit for not trying to steamroll everyone although we do stick our noses into what other peoples are doing far too much. I mean, it's not like the US has tried to conquer a 1/4th of the world like some of those European countries.

Kramerman · July 6, 2003, 05:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
I think many people are whining. I don't particularly like the US, but the thing is, most of the people that are whining about it, esp. Russians, and French, just hate the fact that it's not their country that is in a position to dictate things to the world, but the US is.

This doesn't mean I am for the US dictating world policy, god forbid. I just think that lots of people are hypocritical.

You know, in some threads about the usual screw-up of the US government, I want to come and mock it, and then a bunch of *******s come, and start to sling mud at the US like a bunch of baboons for all the wrong reasons, and targetting the wrong areas. I am actually forced to make a U-turn and defend the US! It's ****ing inconcievable! And you know that these people would go apeshit If you ever said anything like that about their country ( in the areas that matter, of course). And you've got nothing else to do, but shake your head, and walk away.

great post

I agree 100%, at least, that was my perception of things.

Spiffor · July 6, 2003, 06:09

I have a very negative opinion of the policies of the US. And I feel highly distantiated of the "American mentality" in its high degree of individualism.

I fear the weight of religious fundamentalism has in the most powerful country in the world, and I fear as the absolute American confidence in that it never does wrong.
But my highest disappointment was that, after Sept. 11, the population stopped so quickly to wonder why. Instead of looking at their own role in the hatred they bring, the Americans resumed chest thumping louder than before, convincing themselves they were "hated because of their freedom", that "God was on their side", and generally to doubt even less of themselves (don't get me wrong, I don't think Americans deserved Sept. 11, nor that they're the only culprit of Antiamericanism, far from it).

The Day America stops being so self confident and arrogant will be the day when my opinions towards America will become better.

Otherwise, I really enjoy discussing with Americans. Save for the uber nationalism, the American folk seem to be cool people

Pekka · July 6, 2003, 06:18

I like America. I especially like American people, because I think they are nice and are genuine people.
They are easy to talk to, and most of the times help you if you just ask it.

But I think many people really don't have anything against American people. They just hate the Bush regime. American style is usually in your face style, and many people don't like it. You see, the US is a big country with lots of influence and interests. There are people that interests are in conflict with the US interests. So it pisses people off.. But I agree, people whine way too much. They should concentrate on helping themselves, and not *****ing about others and blaiming them for their own lazyness. It's easy to point fingers, but it's better to look in the mirror and ask yourself if there was something you could have done better.

yavoon · July 6, 2003, 06:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
I have a very negative opinion of the policies of the US. And I feel highly distantiated of the "American mentality" in its high degree of individualism.

I fear the weight of religious fundamentalism in the most powerful country in the world, as well as the absolute confidence in that it never does wrong.
But my highest disappointment was that, after Sept. 11, the population stopped to wonder why so soon. Instead of looking at their own role in the hatred they bring, the Americans resumes chest thumping louder than before, convincing themselves they were "hated because of their freedom", that "God was on their side", and generally to doubt even less of themselves (don't get me wrong, I don't think Americans deserved Sept. 11, nor that they're the only culprit of Antiamericanism, far from it).

The Day America stops being so self confident and arrogant will be the day when my opinions towards America will become better.

Otherwise, I really enjoy discussing with Americans. Save for the uber nationalism, the American folk seem to be cool people

I hardly think american thinks it never does wrong. I just think it always has confidence that its next decision is the correct one. obviously leaving afghanistan alone so long was a huge mistake.

do u not work like that? more of a self doubting man?

alva · July 6, 2003, 06:23

Both Hersh & Spiff

Oh and Kyoto

Spiffor · July 6, 2003, 06:27

Quote:

Originally posted by yavoon
do u not work like that? more of a self doubting man?

I try to understand what could lead to the failure of my plan before putting it into action. I may act even while knowing hits flaws, but at least it can help me devise a plan B.

Making gung-ho mistakes, only to understand afterwards what went wrong, is not my method. Besides, I know I don't hold the absolute truth, and I know I can be wrong. I also know that my definition of truth, good and greatness may not be universally shared. The American foreign policy doesn't seem to have understood this basic concept.

Ted Striker · July 6, 2003, 06:35

Quote:

Originally posted by yavoon
I think it kicks ass

What he said.

Und Osterreich ist bunt.

Proteus_MST · July 6, 2003, 06:40

I think much like Spiffor.

It´s especially the policies of the current American Government I don´t like.

But there´s also one thing within the american mentality which worries me. I think it is the thing which Spiffor Called Uber Nationalism.
It seems that even if a President isn´t well likes by the american people, as soon as he starts a war a majority of the american people starts to support the goverment with more and more people joining the supporters as long as the war goes well for the USA. Along with this increasing Support the Number of Critics of the reasons for the war decreases, both in the american media and in the american Population.
That´s something I really don´t like, as it shows a lot of similarities to the Attitude of the Germans prior to WW1.

Along with this I found it very interesting that those Americans who still criticized the american Government were referred to be Unpatriotic or unamerican and some people even started to burn CDs of american artists who were against war. (although I think this Boycotting and/or public Burning of Books and/or CDs of Artists who were against the war isn´t something which was supported by a majority of the Americans [or at least I hope so

]).
I found it strange, as I found that those people who called those American Artists who criticized Bush unamerican and tried to hurt them by burning their CDs and boycotting them, were themselves acting unamerican. Because, isn´t Freedom of Speech one of those things which are held high in the american Constitution?

yavoon · July 6, 2003, 06:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor

I try to understand what could lead to the failure of my plan before putting it into action. I may act even while knowing hits flaws, but at least it can help me devise a plan B.

Making gung-ho mistakes, only to understand afterwards what went wrong, is not my method. Besides, I know I don't hold the absolute truth, and I know I can be wrong. I also know that my definition of truth, good and greatness may not be universally shared. The American foreign policy doesn't seem to have understood this basic concept.

I think we very well knew we screwed up. as is obvious, our methodology after 9/11 changed. we became a lot more aggressive having underestimated the threat of the vile hate-filled radical islamist religion, and its danger to americans.

the real problem is. we didn't change in the direction u wanted.

Spiffor · July 6, 2003, 06:54

Quote:

Originally posted by yavoon
the real problem is. we didn't change in the direction u wanted.

Not exactly. You were convinced of the absolute righteousness of the American values and way to do things, and you are even more convinced now. You couldn't understand how YOU could cause hatred towards you, and today you can even less. You noticed how you went tactically wrong, but no how you went fundamentally wrong.

yavoon · July 6, 2003, 06:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor

Not exactly. You were convinced of the absolute righteousness of the American values and way to do things, and you are even more convinced now. You couldn't understand how YOU could cause hatred towards you, and today you can even less. You noticed how you went tactically wrong, but no how you went fundamentally wrong.

do I believe that my values of freedom of speech are superior to oppression of women and killing of infidels? yes.

do I believe that my liking pizza is superior to someone liking bratworst? no.

I dont think we went fundamentally wrong when the major epicenter of the hatred comes from radical islam. cuz in some small part. ITS GOOD THEY HATE US. cuz everytime I look at what they believe, I hate them too.

Provost Harrison · July 6, 2003, 07:07

I've got nothing against the citizens of the US, but you do allow your nutcases to have extreme power and prominence, Dubya being an example of this, and those who control him and his policies...the near-christian fundamentalism is scary to the rest of the world and the possibility of that getting a foothold in a country that powerful is truly frightening. The way you espouse capitalism like a religion too, and the manner in which you started the cold war, again, with many of your nutcases. The likes of Pat Robertson, Dr Laura are very visible, and are quite frankly, worrying...

Spiffor · July 6, 2003, 07:10

Quote:

Originally posted by yavoon
the major epicenter of the hatred comes from radical islam.

Indeed, the radical Islam is the epicenter of hatred, it is the place where people actually scream for blood in the proper meaning. But when I talk with Americans about the strong dislike their country gets from all over the world, I only hear that these antiamericans are merely "jealous" or "whiny". God forbid the actual attitude of the US has anything to do with it.
Also, God forbid the actual attitude of the US took part in throwing so many Arabs (who are normal people) in the arms of radical, violent and obscurantist Islamists.

Again, don't get me wrong. I don't hold the US for 100% responsible of this. Not even 50%. The "jealous" and "whiny" arguments aren't 100% false either. It is just that very few Americans wonder what is their part in antimaricanism.
From my perspective, the Americans seem to think they haven't done anything wrong to the rest of the world, and are still doing nothing wrong explaining why they are hated. The only thing they believe they do is being free and powerful that is, and that's why they are hated

I know this is a groos generalisation, and it's not exactly like that. American leftists seem to bash the US, even disproportionately. Some Americans who have lived abroad came to understand how it feels like on the other side. But in general, I don't think the "normal Americans" have a clue on where its country was/is wrong wrt the hatred it brings. I'm pretty sure the "normal Americans" don't even want to know.
This is my subjective perspective as a foreigner who has discussed with many educated Americans on this board.

Az · July 6, 2003, 07:15

I think that arabs have themselves to blame for being in the grips of Islamists.

yavoon · July 6, 2003, 07:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor

Indeed, the radical Islam is the epicenter of hatred, it is the place where people actually scream for blood in the proper meaning. But when I talk with Americans about the strong dislike their country gets from all over the world, I only hear that these antiamericans are merely "jealous" or "whiny". God forbid the actual attitude of the US has anything to do with it.
Also, God forbid the actual attitude of the US took part in throwing so many Arabs (who are normal people) in the arms of radical, violent and obscurantist Islamists.

Again, don't get me wrong. I don't hold the US for 100% responsible of this. Not even 50%. The "jealous" and "whiny" arguments aren't 100% false either. It is just that very few Americans wonder what is their part in antimaricanism.
From my perspective, the Americans seem to think they haven't done anything wrong to the rest of the world, and are still doing nothing wrong explaining why they are hated. The only thing they believe they do is being free and powerful that is, and that's why they are hated

I know this is a groos generalisation, and it's not exactly like that. American leftists seem to bash the US, even disproportionately. Some Americans who have lived abroad came to understand how it feels like on the other side. But in general, I don't think the "normal Americans" have a clue on where its country was/is wrong wrt the hatred it brings. I'm pretty sure the "normal Americans" don't even want to know.
This is my subjective perspective as a foreigner who has discussed with many educated Americans on this board.

its true there are a lot of arabs who are of varrying degrees of radicalism. and its not good that they are "caught in the middle." yet there they are. If I could wish them out of the hands of the islamic radicalists I would. but I can't.

I don't neccessarily think europeans understand americans either. for 50 years europe hasn't had to take a stand. it could always sit back and see how it ended up. always wait. now it barely has the ability to take one, much less the desire.

Nubclear · July 6, 2003, 07:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman
The people tried to explained the reasons for the anti-americanism, and said the main cause was the "your with us or against us" attitude and the general 'cowboy' and 'bulley' that the world perceives the US as.
But this seems to simple... this doesnt seem to explain why so many people's opinion of the US has seemed to plummit over the years. Or is this all just my imagination? fed by shows like the one i saw?

I thought all the peoples knew about the worlds current stage of Anti-Americanism.

My opinion of America is actually quite positive. The people are generally friendly (With the exception of the New Yorkers.), and their navietity makes them seem cute

I love American TV commercials. It's just so blatant and uber-excited that....It's wonderful

I also like American processed cheeses. They have such a bland taste to them that theyre wonderful. I also like American culture (Otherwise known as "black culture"). And studying American political history can be quite entertaining.

However, my opinion of America QUICKLY fell when Bush came into office. His mishandeling of the economy, unable to provide results, and sparking the flame of anti-americanism really put me off. Combine this with the American publics recent wave of nationalism, and I've become fed up. However, I'm pretty sure that once Bush is outta office, my opinion will go up again.
My pain peeve is Sep11...Right after, Americans did not really think about why it happend or what to do to rectify it. What did they do?
"Kill the Muslims!!!!"
"AMERICA R0X0RS EVERYONES S0X0RS."
"Were invincible!! Were number 1!!!!!"
They go to war against Afghanistan. Hatred against Bin Laden is EXTREMLY HIGH. We go to war against Afghanistan (which I supported).
Suddenly, the focus shifts! Iraq! Weapons of Mass Destruction!!! Now 50+ percent of Americans believe it was SADDAM behind the attacks, and the majority also believe that the hijackers were IRAQI. 20 percent believe we've found WoMD in Iraq.
RIght afterwards, things changed:
"Death to France! Death to Germany!"
"I WISH FRANCE NEVER EXISTED!"
"ALL THE FRENCH PEOPLE ARE TERRORISTS!"
Then they think Sep11 happend because "They hate our freedom." "They are simply jealous cause were the best." Ugh. Did they ever stop to think theire ACTIONS and IGNORANCE cause sep11? And right after, the entire world offered its sympathy (Even Saddam! He said the American government deserved it, but the American people did not). But what do we do?
"HA, WERE BETTER THAN YOU ARE!!!!"
"YOU SUXORS, WERE SO MUCH STRONGER THAN YOU!!!"
"We don't need you. WE ARE AMERICANS!"
And then many Americans think America has never done ANYTHING wrong sans Vietnam and "electing Clinton".

They accuse anyone who isn't mainstream (Mainstream now being Republican) as being a commie or a liberal or a democrat without even stopping to consider the opposite viewpoint....
And then American culture is spiraling down very quickly. America does not promote intellectual development (which has contributed to the sorry state of the nation), stresses physical strength above all....But 66+ percent of Americans are fat or obese. Meaning, Americans come out losing in the end.
July 4th really did hurt the nation, because it simply rekindles the "Were the best!!!" feeling. When Bin Laden set out to destroy America....I'm sorry to say, but he seems to be suceeding quite a bit. Americans are completly ignorant of what the rest of the world thinks, and of what its leaders are actually doing.
Another thing that really bothers me is Americas lack of social progression and tolerance. While the majority of the nation isn't redneck "Aww heww, lets cloze dem burders. we dont need no foreener skum." type, it is a growing movement. And then the gays issue.....But thats for another time.

Pardon the rant

Az: Israel sucks ***.

Az · July 6, 2003, 07:31

Thanks for illustrating my point, Tassadar.

Nubclear · July 6, 2003, 07:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Azazel
Thanks for Tassadar for illustrating my point.

And what point would that be?

That is another thing that bothers me....Israel constantly sucking up to the US, so much to the point where its citizens are beginning to lose faith in democracy (How many want to bar Palestinians from government?) AND are following America like blind sheep. Though your not to the same extreme, you are kind of like that Azazel

Caligastia · July 6, 2003, 07:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Big, wealthy nation. Makes nice wine and terrible beer.

Not true. American beers are far better than you think. Try something other than Coors or Bud.

Spiffor · July 6, 2003, 07:46

I mostly agree with Tassadar. He sure exaggerates like hell, but he illustates quite well what I wanted to say. The "AMERICA ROXORZ EVERYONES SUXORZ" attitutde is my first and foremost problem with the Americans. It was mostly something to laugh about in the past. Since Sept 11, it has become sickening and worrysome.