Best way to disguise an empire?

problem_child · July 16, 2003, 07:20

So you're the ruling elite of a big powerful nation, and you wan't to know how to further your position by being an empire. Empires are afterall built to service ruling elites, so here's how you go about it.

First, call all emperial campaigns of acquisition 'missions of mercy', to 'further the lot of fellow human beings' by bringing them- I dunno, the one true religion or something, or 'freedom and democracy'.

Justify your support of local warlords and militarist collaborators by saying you have to to defend 'freedom' even if it means having to work with less savoury characters (if they're not unsavoury enough when you buy them- train them up in military colleges so they know how to torture, kidnap, blackmail and kill more effectively).

When you send armies out to crush upstart chieftains and renegade monarchs with your own forces, call it a 'police action', make yourself out to be 'reluctantly' defending the rights of ungrateful foreigners, allow people to call you the 'worlds policeman' perhaps. This means your PR is working.

Once you've screwed up enough countries so nobody could possibly rival your way of doing things, you'll find you have a bunch of 'loser countries'... no, let's call them 'Developing World' countries, where you can pay the workforce chump-change to make goods you then sell at home for a significant markup. You and your fellow Elitebridge University buddies can pocket the difference. You can buy as many resources as you need at cut-rate prices. Your corporations and trading-organizations don't have to pay the local taxes, and nobody gives you hastle about health issues or environmental matters because their weak, and need your 'investment'.

The ignorant masses back home will fall for it every time, their knowledge of the rest of the world comes from news organizations that tow the corporate line, and anyway wave a flag at em and display their bloated army so they feel powerful, and that its all being done in their name. Associate your interest with their interest, this can be done with a little thing called 'patriotism', or at least your version of it- sold vigoruously.

The herds of wage-earners will never figure out that your spending their tax-dinars to build an army to look after your corporate interests. They wont put it together that you'll move their jobs overseas to where you have arranged for people to be paid pebble-money. They'll probably agree with you when you tell them welfare for people sucks, but won't know enough to complain of the welfare for corporations you happily dish out by the billions every year, for corpos owned by yourself and your buddies.

This is only a sketch of how it should be done, other details were not included because well, I'm lazy. But this is how Norway does it, and nobody suspects a thing.

aaglo · July 16, 2003, 08:39

I was almost convinced that you were ranting about america...

laurentius · July 16, 2003, 08:43

Nice analysis problem_child. I wonder how long does it take for people to be fed up with Norways arrogant and criminal behaviour.

Traianvs · July 16, 2003, 08:48

I think he is, after all I don't recall norway waging wars, and having a huge army to protect their interests... Actually the Norway elite uses the Americans to do that for them just like everyone else

(dumb suckers

)

You also forgot that they will cover up deficits by turning the public attention to other things such as wars, etc...

I do recall California (and most other states in the US) running out of money... Best thing to do is let the media you 'own' just cover that up a bit. The elite will stay rich and wealthy as usual, too bad the regulars will have to be fired, etc, to cut down expenses but hey who cares!

Q Classic · July 16, 2003, 08:52

that's how bush should have done it. he made the cardinal sin of removing all of that liberalism-based window dressing.

that's why so many got pissed off.

the way america used to work was to pretend to hold the tenets of liberalism dear, and then make power calculations and political moves based on realism.

that earned us a lot less ire.

DinoDoc · July 16, 2003, 08:55

Quote:

Originally posted by problem_child
So your the ruling elite of a big powerful nation, and you wan't to know how to further your position by being an empire.

Why would I bother to hide it though?

MattH · July 16, 2003, 09:08

DinoDoc: Cause' sometimes you gotta be patient to get...
One billion square miles *raises pinky to mouth*

DinoDoc · July 16, 2003, 09:13

Quote:

Originally posted by MattH
DinoDoc: Cause' sometimes you gotta be patient to get...
One billion square miles *raises pinky to mouth*

Bah! I have 2 continents I can play with without bothering to pay attention to outside concerns. North and South America will be my dominion.

problem_child · July 16, 2003, 09:20

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why would I bother to hide it though?

Because there are more of the masses then there are of the 'cream', if you wan't to keep milking them you need to keep em cooperative.

America has nothing to do with this, she is a peaceloving nation that can well afford her modest military and whose government is not over $30 Billion dollars in dept at all. Unlike those Norwegians, whose military/industrial elites doth bestraddle the world like an unsustainable collosus.

problem_child · July 16, 2003, 09:30

And if you don't believe me about Norways use of an hidden imperialism to further its own ends, here is a UN list.

The UN has published it's Human Development Report 2003. The HDI measures achievements in terms of life expectancy, educational attainment and adjusted real income.

1 Norway
2 Iceland
3 Sweden
4 Australia
5 Netherlands
6 Belgium
7 United States
8 Canada
9 Japan
10 Switzerland
11 Denmark
12 Ireland
13 United Kingdom
14 Finland
15 Luxembourg
16 Austria
17 France
18 Germany
19 Spain
20 New Zealand
21 Italy
22 Israel
23 Portugal
24 Greece
25 Cyprus
26 Hong Kong,China (SAR)
27 Barbados
28 Singapore
29 Slovenia
30 Korea,Rep. of
31 Brunei Darussalam
32 Czech Republic
33 Malta
34 Argentina
35 Poland
36 Seychelles
37 Bahrain
38 Hungary
39 Slovakia
40 Uruguay
41 Estonia
42 Costa Rica
43 Chile
44 Qatar
45 Lithuania
46 Kuwait
47 Croatia
48 United Arab Emirates
49 Bahamas
50 Latvia
51 Saint Kitts and Nevis
52 Cuba
56 Antigua and Barbuda
57 Bulgaria
58 Malaysia
59 Panama
60 Macedonia,TFYR
61 Libyan Arab
Jamahiriya
62 Mauritius
63 Russian Federation
64 Colombia
65 Brazil
66 Bosnia and
Herzegovina
67 Belize
68 Dominica
69 Venezuela
70 Samoa (Western)
71 Saint Lucia
72 Romania
73 Saudi Arabia
74 Thailand
75 Ukraine
76 Kazakhstan
77 Suriname
78 Jamaica
79 Oman
80 St.Vincent and
the Grenadines
81 Fiji
82 Peru
83 Lebanon
84 Paraguay
85 Philippines
86 Maldives
87 Turkmenistan
88 Georgia
89 Azerbaijan
90 Jordan
91 Tunisia
92 Guyana
93 Grenada
94 Dominican Republic
95 Albania
96 Turkey
97 Ecuador
98 Occupied Palestinian
Territories
99 Sri Lanka
100 Armenia
101 Uzbekistan
102 Kyrgyzstan
103 Cape Verde
104 China
105 El Salvador
106 Iran, Islamic Rep. of
107 Algeria
108 Moldova,Rep.of
109 Viet Nam
110 Syrian Arab Republic
111 South Africa
112 Indonesia
113 Tajikistan
114 Bolivia
115 Honduras
116 Equatorial Guinea
117 Mongolia
118 Gabon
119 Guatemala
120 Egypt
121 Nicaragua
122 São Tomé and
Principe
123 Solomon Islands
124 Namibia
125 Botswana
126 Morocco
127 India
128 Vanuatu
129 Ghana
130 Cambodia
131 Myanmar
132 Papua New Guinea
133 Swaziland
134 Comoros
135 Lao People’s
Dem.Rep.
136 Bhutan
137 Lesotho
138 Sudan
139 Bangladesh
140 Congo
141 Togo
Low human development
142 Cameroon
143 Nepal
144 Pakistan
145 Zimbabwe
146 Kenya
147 Uganda
148 Yemen
149 Madagascar
150 Haiti
151 Gambia
152 Nigeria
153 Djibouti
154 Mauritania
155 Eritrea
156 Senegal
157 Guinea
158 Rwanda
159 Benin
160 Tanzania, U.Rep. of
161 Côte d’Ivoire
162 Malawi
163 Zambia
164 Angola
165 Chad
166 Guinea-Bissau
167 Congo,Dem.Rep. of the
168 Central African Republic
169 Ethiopia
170 Mozambique
171 Burundi
172 Mali
173 Burkina Faso
174 Niger
175 Sierra Leone

Norway is at the top, how else could it have achieved this without the rabid imperialism of it's ruling class?

MikeH · July 16, 2003, 10:45

I think that makes it 97.654% certain that you are right.

MichaeltheGreat · July 16, 2003, 11:21

The real stealth country isn't even on the list, Mexico. Phase I of the master plan is a success.

DinoDoc · July 16, 2003, 11:37

All should fear Mexico.

st_swithin · July 16, 2003, 11:46

That's it. I"m moving to Norway. Screw this land of the free crap - terrorists can come to the states to train as commercial airplane pilots and weapons experts, but my friends from Manchester can't stay because their visas have expired and the US won't issue any more.

I guess it's all those Manichaean terrorists in America. I mean, I know I'm supposed to feel safer, but somehow I really don't.

Odin · July 16, 2003, 22:39

The land of my ancestors is #1.

To live long... EAT FISH.

Actually, many countries are technically empires because they encompass many cultures. The US is not a single nation, a nation is a group united by culture acording to the definition in a politcal science textbook I have read. The US is a state, but not a nation. Ancient greece was a nation, but not a state. An empire is a state encompassing several conquered nations, so all the countries in the new world are empires.

Immortal Wombat · July 16, 2003, 22:44

We beat Finland!

Skanky Burns · July 16, 2003, 22:50

Australia beat NZ too! But then, no real surprise.

Kassiopeia · July 16, 2003, 23:03

Of course Finland was 14th. We aren't stupid. Norway is just a diversion.

Odin · July 16, 2003, 23:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Norway is just a diversion.

WHY YOU LITTLE...

Dis · July 17, 2003, 01:55

*wipes eyes*

I could have swore the thread was titled: best way to disguise an umpire

The Mad Monk · July 17, 2003, 04:08

Wow...the Russian Federation has really fallen down that list.

Az · July 17, 2003, 04:29

Yep.

USSR was around the mid 30s there, IIRC.

Serb · July 17, 2003, 05:04

Who said USSR here?
Here I am...

Serb · July 17, 2003, 05:06

Quote:

Originally posted by problem_child
So you're the ruling elite of a big powerful nation, and you wan't to know how to further your position by being an empire. Empires are afterall built to service ruling elites, so here's how you go about it.

First, call all emperial campaigns of acquisition 'missions of mercy', to 'further the lot of fellow human beings' by bringing them- I dunno, the one true religion or something, or 'freedom and democracy'.

Justify your support of local warlords and militarist collaborators by saying you have to to defend 'freedom' even if it means having to work with less savoury characters (if they're not unsavoury enough when you buy them- train them up in military colleges so they know how to torture, kidnap, blackmail and kill more effectively).

When you send armies out to crush upstart chieftains and renegade monarchs with your own forces, call it a 'police action', make yourself out to be 'reluctantly' defending the rights of ungrateful foreigners, allow people to call you the 'worlds policeman' perhaps. This means your PR is working.

Once you've screwed up enough countries so nobody could possibly rival your way of doing things, you'll find you have a bunch of 'loser countries'... no, let's call them 'Developing World' countries, where you can pay the workforce chump-change to make goods you then sell at home for a significant markup. You and your fellow Elitebridge University buddies can pocket the difference. You can buy as many resources as you need at cut-rate prices. Your corporations and trading-organizations don't have to pay the local taxes, and nobody gives you hastle about health issues or environmental matters because their weak, and need your 'investment'.

The ignorant masses back home will fall for it every time, their knowledge of the rest of the world comes from news organizations that tow the corporate line, and anyway wave a flag at em and display their bloated army so they feel powerful, and that its all being done in their name. Associate your interest with their interest, this can be done with a little thing called 'patriotism', or at least your version of it- sold vigoruously.

The herds of wage-earners will never figure out that your spending their tax-dinars to build an army to look after your corporate interests. They wont put it together that you'll move their jobs overseas to where you have arranged for people to be paid pebble-money. They'll probably agree with you when you tell them welfare for people sucks, but won't know enough to complain of the welfare for corporations you happily dish out by the billions every year, for corpos owned by yourself and your buddies.

This is only a sketch of how it should be done, other details were not included because well, I'm lazy. But this is how Norway does it, and nobody suspects a thing.

It sounds like quote from George's book.

Serb · July 17, 2003, 05:07

Great reading.

(for American president

)

Drake Tungsten · July 17, 2003, 05:19

What is Poutine? Is that the leader of some piss-ant country or something?

Harovan · July 17, 2003, 05:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
What is Poutine? Is that the leader of some piss-ant country or something?

If you don't know what Poutine is, this book is for you. Perhaps they can sell the 2nd copy this way?

Serb · July 17, 2003, 06:36

Thanks Sir Ralph.

Obviously Drake need to read it.

He is weird dude. He is an author of Chilian conspiracy theory.

Harovan · July 17, 2003, 06:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Serb

Thanks Sir Ralph.

Obviously Drake need to read it.

He is weird dude. He is an author of Chilian conspiracy theory.

You're welcome.

I even hid a second meaning of "Poutine" in a link in the quote. But since it contains the words "french" and "cheese", it probably won't please Drake Tungsten either.

Drake Tungsten · July 17, 2003, 09:40

I guess I was too subtle for you ignorant foreigners.