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View Poll Results: Which kernel is the most stable, reliable and secure overall?
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Unix
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15 |
62.50% |
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NT
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6 |
25.00% |
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About the same
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2 |
8.33% |
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Don't know
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1 |
4.17% |
The banana beats 'em all!!! 
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0% |
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July 22, 2003, 22:19
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#1
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Warlord
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Unix vs. NT
IMHO, the answer is Unix. 
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 22, 2003, 22:40
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#2
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 3,361
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All the networking gurus I've ever talked to say Unix, but I don't know firsthand.
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July 22, 2003, 22:43
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#3
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Deity
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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NT.
Asher in 10... 9... 8...
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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July 22, 2003, 23:08
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#4
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Batallón de San Patricio, United States of America
Posts: 3,696
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Commodore Vic 20
__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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July 23, 2003, 00:17
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#5
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King
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,394
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what is with all the "us versus them" feeling?
can't you just use whatever one is best to your needs?
__________________
meet the new boss, same as the old boss
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July 23, 2003, 01:36
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#6
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President of the OT
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
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Unix isn't a kernel.
NT wins by default due to it being the only poll option that relates to the question.
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
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July 23, 2003, 11:55
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#7
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
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HURD! HURD! HURD! 
__________________
B♭3
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July 23, 2003, 14:58
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#8
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Warlord
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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bump
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 23, 2003, 15:25
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#9
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Warlord
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 234
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Which Unix?
Which version of NT?
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July 23, 2003, 15:50
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#10
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Warlord
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Edan
Which Unix?
Which version of NT?
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The latest.
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 23, 2003, 16:33
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#11
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President of the OT
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
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Which is better:
VOLCANO or LAVA?
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
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July 23, 2003, 18:07
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#12
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: In the army
Posts: 3,375
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Asher
Which is better:
VOLCANO or LAVA?
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i actually would prefer magma in this instance
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July 23, 2003, 18:24
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#13
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Deity
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Molten rock.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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July 23, 2003, 18:26
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#14
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King
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,394
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I'd prefer a volcano. Lava is thousands of degrees, but most volcanoes are inactive.
__________________
meet the new boss, same as the old boss
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July 23, 2003, 21:02
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#15
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Warlord
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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I remember that one time I read an article on News.com less than a year ago that said there was a security flaw found in Winblows that had been there for 5 years and had found it's way into multiple versions of the OS over the years!!!  That's just scary! 
I wonder how many more security flaws there are in Winblows that may not be found for years or may never be discovered! That's just plain  !
No way am I gonna use Micro$uck$ Winblows! Sorry Bill.
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 23, 2003, 21:07
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#16
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Local Time: 17:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
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Quote:
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I wonder how many more security flaws there are in Winblows that may not be found for years or may never be discovered!
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Why would a security flaw matter if no-one has discovered it? At least one person would need to have discovered it before it could be exploited.
__________________
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
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July 23, 2003, 21:09
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#17
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Deity
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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I wonder how many security flaws there are in Macintoshes that have been there for years and years that haven't been discovered because no one cares enough to hack it.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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July 23, 2003, 22:22
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#18
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Warlord
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: "I'm gonna speak softly, but carry a BIG STICK!!!"
Posts: 123
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I'm quite happy so far with the poll results. 
Keep 'em comin' guys!
__________________
HAVE A DAY.
<--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
"And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
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July 23, 2003, 23:53
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#19
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President of the OT
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
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Oh, this is too good to pass up.
You should talk to Darkstar@CounterGlow (old-timer computer geek). He'll tell you about 30-year old known security flaws in Unixes that are still around or just recently closed. 
"Micro$uck$ Winblows!"
As creative as you are sexually active, I see.
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
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July 24, 2003, 02:18
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#20
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Prince
Local Time: 23:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: of the purple hand
Posts: 585
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The members of the Unix community I have met have on average been more responsible and reasonable people than the members of the windows community I have met. Therefore, I believe the different Unises to be more secure than windows.
__________________
American by birth, smarter than the average tropical fruit by the grace of Me. -me
I try not to break the rules but merely to test their elasticity. -- Bill Veeck | Don't listed to the Linux Satanist, people. - St. Leo | If patching security holes was the top priority of any of us(no matter the OS), we'd do nothing else. - Me, in a tired and accidental attempt to draw fire from all three sides.
Posted with Mozilla Firebird running under Sawfish on a Slackware Linux install.:p
XGalaga.
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July 24, 2003, 10:17
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#21
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President of the OT
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
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Quote:
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Originally posted by geeslaka
The members of the Unix community I have met have on average been more responsible and reasonable people than the members of the windows community I have met. Therefore, I believe the different Unises to be more secure than windows.
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This kind of logic is an example of the logic of the Unix community, and precisely why they're not necessarily more secure.
The true Unixes actually are, because they've had 30+ years to mature and get all the bugs written off. If you looked at the Unixes when they were 10 years old, how old NT is, they were in a far worse state in terms of security than NT is right now.
Keep in mind that Linux is not a Unix...
As for the "Unix" community being more responsible...the person who holds the Unix trademark, SCO, is going around threatening to sue people and trying to charge licenses for Linux (because it "stole" some stuff...) to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, when the people thought what they were getting was free.
Responsibility.
Meanwhile, the MS license actually protects the consumer and/or corporation from such practices -- if any legal issue ever comes up regarding Windows, the license states MS will handle the legal matter completely at their cost. They're not left hanging to dry as is the case today with Linux.
Which is more responsible?
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
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July 24, 2003, 10:26
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#22
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 07:07
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ming on rakastajani
Posts: 7,511
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The difference with UNIX is most of the security flaws don't give you root access, most NT ones do.
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July 24, 2003, 10:41
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#23
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President of the OT
Local Time: 00:07
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
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That has nothing to do with the NT kernel and everything to do with the user-level permissions people run things at.
Starting in Server 2003, stuff like IIS run in their own restricted account to prevent all those CodeRed-type worms.
As for the desktop/workstation variations, the reason there is the vast majority of Windows users log in under "root" to do things, while Unix ones typically are restricted accounts.
If the people who used Unix had the same mindset as the people who used Windows, the "root"ing security flaws would be quite comparable.
Very very very few of the Windows flaws can take a program running in a restricted account and get root from it. They usually worked by getting root due to the user's or program's privledge level.
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
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July 24, 2003, 10:45
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#24
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 07:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ming on rakastajani
Posts: 7,511
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Quote:
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Starting in Server 2003
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Already? 
and you are right, the problem is that stuff like IIS always needed to run as root. It is getting to a more sensible situation now.
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July 24, 2003, 11:19
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#25
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Prince
Local Time: 08:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Brussels
Posts: 854
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I guess you mean OS, not kernel.
Well, to answer your question, here is my experience:
I work now since 12 years in the software business. I have worked on softwares controlling a nuke power, test (mainly) and onboard program for Ariane 5 rocket and air traffic control, I now work on programs controlling semicon production lines.
In those 12 years, I worked on Vax/vms first, but then very fast we switched to Unix platforms for the real work, on Microsoft for the paperwork (documentation); I spend more than 6 hours a day on so many (I would say 20) Unix machines, less than 2 hours a day on (I would say 3) M$.
In 12 years, I have experiment only one single Unix crash (due to software) and 2 or 3 due to hardware (crash disk).
I remember at least 4 NT crashes (due to software) in the last 2 years for myself, 10 for one of my colleague.
And did I tell you that we usually are concurrent users on the Unix, while we are alone on our PCs?
I don't know a single industry whose control program is running on NT.
Does that answer your question?
__________________
The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.
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July 24, 2003, 11:19
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#26
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Prince
Local Time: 06:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Posts: 853
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BSD (especially NetBSD/OpenBSD) is far far more secure. Linux (2.4.x) isnt significantly ahead of NT, and somewhat behind BSD, although I think we should reserve judgement on Linux until 2.6.x is released.
Asher is right, UNIX isnt a kernel, but one assumes BSD, Linux etc kernels, which is what talking about. Also, I'm going to hold out for the HURD as well, although it would do so much better if Stallman wasn't micromanaging it  .
Still, MS has a better desktop interface imo, and few desktop users care that much about server security.
__________________
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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July 24, 2003, 11:51
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#27
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President of the OT
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Dry
Ariane 5 rocket
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Those are the same ones that crash due to software problems, no?
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
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July 24, 2003, 11:54
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#28
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Prince
Local Time: 08:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Brussels
Posts: 854
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Asher
Those are the same ones that crash due to software problems, no?
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Indeed
__________________
The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.
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July 24, 2003, 11:56
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#29
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President of the OT
Local Time: 00:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
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What OS do the rockets run?
__________________
"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
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July 24, 2003, 12:10
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#30
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Prince
Local Time: 08:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Brussels
Posts: 854
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Asher
What OS do the rockets run?
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To be honest I don't remember (if I ever knew).
Main development for us (ground tests before the launch), was on vax/vms.
For our small participation on the onboard software, we did it on a unix machine.
The compiler (cross compiler) was specific because the onboard software had to run on a very specific card (protected against space radiations).
__________________
The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.
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