July 26, 2003, 12:38
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#1
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Prince
Local Time: 22:20
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 551
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The Iroquois shunned and favorite government
The Iroquois Nation was a confederacy, so why is their shunned government democracy and their favorite government despotism? It should be their favorite is a republic (or maybe democracy, what do you think?) and their shunned government monarchy (they hated the French). I already renamed their cities, and made their formal 'the Iroquois Nation' (sounds much better than just Iroquois, if you want explanation go to my other thread), but the leaders are still a problem. They are all from other tribes. The only other Iroquois leader I can think of besides Hiawatha is Sageyowatha. So I need at least two more.
Of course, the other solution is to just do what maybe was intended by FIRAXIS and just make a civ representing native Americans. Call the civ 'the Native Americans', name the cities after famous tribes, and keep the leaders. What do you guys think?
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"The first man who, having fenced off a plot of land, thought of saying, 'This is mine' and found people simple enough to believe him was the real founder of civil society. How many crimes, wars, murders, how many miseries and horrors might the human race had been spared by the one who, upon pulling up the stakes or filling in the ditch, had shouted to his fellow men: 'Beware of listening to this imposter; you are lost if you forget the fruits of the earth belong to all and that the earth belongs to no one." - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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July 26, 2003, 12:46
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#2
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Deity
Local Time: 23:20
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Baron of Sealand residing in SF, CA
Posts: 12,344
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Quite frankly, I don't pay any attention to the "favorite" and "shunned" governments lists for each civilization...and I always play the Iroquois (changed to be the Wyandot) in my SP and MP LAN games  ... though historically, I would think that the Iroquois favorite government should be Democracy. 
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"One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
"If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
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July 26, 2003, 14:42
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#3
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Emperor
Local Time: 08:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
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Re: The Iroquois shunned and favorite government
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Quote:
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Originally posted by johncmcleod
The Iroquois Nation was a confederacy, so why is their shunned government democracy and their favorite government despotism? It should be their favorite is a republic (or maybe democracy, what do you think?) and their shunned government monarchy (they hated the French). I already renamed their cities, and made their formal 'the Iroquois Nation' (sounds much better than just Iroquois, if you want explanation go to my other thread), but the leaders are still a problem. They are all from other tribes. The only other Iroquois leader I can think of besides Hiawatha is Sageyowatha. So I need at least two more.
Of course, the other solution is to just do what maybe was intended by FIRAXIS and just make a civ representing native Americans. Call the civ 'the Native Americans', name the cities after famous tribes, and keep the leaders. What do you guys think?
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hi ,
 , well the French had a monarchy but they evolved later on to a republic , ....
there is only one solution ; " the editor " 
have a nice day
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July 26, 2003, 15:12
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#4
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King
Local Time: 01:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,088
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Maybe someone from Firaxis could drop by and answer that question?
I would think Despotism is a good government for them to shun.
Making a Native American civ is a good idea. Though I think it adds to the game to have unique civs rather then generalizations.
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July 26, 2003, 16:57
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#5
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King
Local Time: 03:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Declarado en rebeldia
Posts: 1,594
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It doesn't really matter the shunned and favourite gov, the AI always choose Democracy or Republic as peace time and Monarchy or Communism for war
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July 26, 2003, 17:24
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#6
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Deity
Local Time: 02:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
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It does not seem that shunned and favored have that much of an influence on the game.
So until I see some impact, I don't care what they use.
Anyway don't try to make so much of the nits such as this and traits. They have only so many and if they made them all rational and logical there would be too many with the same values.
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July 27, 2003, 14:15
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#7
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King
Local Time: 01:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,088
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I thought that shunned and favorite governments affected how you were percieved by other civs.
Having a favorite government of a civ helps your relations with that civ. Am I wrong in thinking this?
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July 27, 2003, 14:51
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#8
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Deity
Local Time: 23:20
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Baron of Sealand residing in SF, CA
Posts: 12,344
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I believe you are right Sheik, but the way the AI acts at times, I'm guessing it's not that big of an issue. 
__________________
____________________________
"One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
"If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
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July 27, 2003, 16:38
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#9
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King
Local Time: 00:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: A bleak and barren rock
Posts: 2,743
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Native Americans? Nah, most Native Americans, as you'd call them, don't take that term seriously. I know from experience that many of them (at least the Navajo, Pueblo, and Sioux that I've known) prefer American Indian!
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July 27, 2003, 17:03
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#10
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Queen
Local Time: 07:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Posts: 1,578
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Re: The Iroquois shunned and favorite government
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Quote:
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Originally posted by johncmcleod
The Iroquois Nation was a confederacy, so why is their shunned government democracy and their favorite government despotism? It should be their favorite is a republic (or maybe democracy, what do you think?) and their shunned government monarchy (they hated the French).
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Favourite should be Democracy, shunned Despotism.
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Quote:
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The only other Iroquois leader I can think of besides Hiawatha is Sageyowatha. So I need at least two more.
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Here is a list of 10 Iroquois leaders:
Kryn
Garangula
Canassatego
Skenandoah
Handsome Lake
Cornplanter
Joseph Brant
Sagoyewatha
Ely Parker
Descaheh
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