Thread Tools
Old July 30, 2003, 01:18   #1
Vlado
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 07:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 87
Creating a killer AI
According to the thread about traits all AIs that are industrious are better opponents then the others. I'm not sure why that is, it could be that they don't build stupid things like cathedrals in size 3 cities or universities in size 1 since they lack these traits but I doubt it. Since we all know how badly the AI is when it comes to using workers I figured that this could be the thing. Eg since the AI is so bad at using workers the double speed worker helps him so much more then it does us.

So what I would like to do is to increase the worker speed for all AIs, sort of like a bonus that the AI get for sience etc at the higher levels. This would then help it get all it's tiles roaded etc must faster, which is something it really needs...
Vlado is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 01:24   #2
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
Killer AI comes from taking over a large land mass that the human is not on.
vmxa1 is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 04:54   #3
Vlado
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 07:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 87
Well of course that's one aspect to it but don't you want the AI next to you to be a little more competetive as well. I think it's a bit dull when you see that you can outproduce the AI eventhough they have more cities then you. But that's just me, if you like the fact that you can beat him since he doesn't use his workers to the full extent, fine by me...
Vlado is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 10:54   #4
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
hi ,

if you really want a killer AI make ones a mod inwhere the AI gets all the traits in each civ , ......

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 13:53   #5
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
If the AI did not have some of these weakness, we would not be playing at all. Not many will play on when they lose all the time. It is not all that easy to win on Emp/Deity now, if the AI was a lot better, I for one would not be able to win.
If you want that better AI, play MP.
So to answer you question, no I do not want a KAI next to me. I could deal with that civ, but the others would soon be beyond managing.
vmxa1 is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 14:20   #6
Last Conformist
King
 
Last Conformist's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: of Outer Space
Posts: 2,210
The ideal, surely, would be an AI that could play a decent human player to a stalemate at Regent.
__________________
Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok
Last Conformist is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 14:25   #7
Don K Hotay
Warlord
 
Local Time: 01:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 141
The AI needs alot of improvement, and if a killer AI could be created I'd be all for it; as long as bonuses in units and production was limited, if any given at all. Even when I'm on the road to victory on Deity, far ahead of the other civs, it's a bummer because despite such huge advantages, the AI fails to achieve even modest military victories by the late game.
Don K Hotay is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 15:09   #8
TheArsenal
Apolyton University
Prince
 
TheArsenal's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:36
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 900
Actually
Here's the thing - I say it often as someone who knows plenty of people playing this game but have never been to this site or any other.

The very demographic on these boards is skewed by the fact that we care enough about general knowledge and tactics to be here at all. But consider the number of copies this title has sold compared to number of poster/lurkers on all civ sites combined. The AI, on Regent, is kicking a lot more behind than you would think. So is Warlord. A good number of people want a mild, enjoyable challenge as a diversion. But they also don't want to feel like they're never progressing, and feel better about the game if there are at least a couple of levels of difficulty below them once they progress far enough to have a casual understanding of the game and its mechanics.

Keep in mind, for most (off these boards), getting their behind kicked by a game is not a stand back and marvel at the wonder of the AI tactics moment. It's a frustrating drubbing that will get the game shelved if it happens too often.
__________________
"Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"
TheArsenal is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 15:57   #9
Don K Hotay
Warlord
 
Local Time: 01:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 141
I'm surprised when I hear people write they've been beaten by the AI on regent. Obviously it means I play the game way too much and far too seriously; quite religiously in fact. So sue me. Its a pretty damn good game.

The percentile of gamers that play as often and as seriously as I do should be accomodated as well, and I think by adding the divine and Sid difficulty levels in Conquests, the devs are trying to. However, there are only so many advantages the AI can be given before it becomes downright ridiculous, so if the new difficulty levels are to inch closer towards killer AI status, there had better be other improvements besides production and unit bonuses.

Quixote
Don K Hotay is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 18:42   #10
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally posted by Don K Hotay
The AI needs alot of improvement, and if a killer AI could be created I'd be all for it; as long as bonuses in units and production was limited, if any given at all. Even when I'm on the road to victory on Deity, far ahead of the other civs, it's a bummer because despite such huge advantages, the AI fails to achieve even modest military victories by the late game.
hi ,

yes , yes agreed , but then the comp specs shall go way up and one shall need several gig's of space for game , ......


and then a whole bunch of people are going to start crying murder , .....

they should release a special edition at a higher price ( in order to cover cost's ) that has an AI of like 3 gig's to start with , ......




have a great day
Panag is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 18:55   #11
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
I think Arsenal is correct here. Many people are not beating Regent level and never heard of any fan sites.
If they could make Emp/Deity so exp players had trouble with the game without the bonus, that would be fine.
As it sits now, leavign them in and adding imrovements is not required.
vmxa1 is offline  
Old July 30, 2003, 20:53   #12
Theseus
PtWDG Gathering StormApolyton UniversityApolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-LeagueC4DG Gathering StormApolyCon 06 Participants
Emperor
 
Theseus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm!
Posts: 8,907
There's been a fair amount of discussion and experimentation on this subject.

Ultimately, starting conditions have the greatest effect. It's not just that a given AI civ has great conditions (partially offsetting less than optimal Worker usage), but that it is near disadvantaged AI civs with BAD conditions (exacerbating poor Worker usage).

Traits do, of course, matter as well. Give the aforementioned advantaged AI civ IND and COM, and things are looking good.

Give it a UU that will trigger a GA out of despotism, and now we are talking.

Make sure one of the disadvantaged AI civs has a high aggression level... they'll do something to put the smell of war in the air.

__________________

BTW, I have no doubt that the AI routines could have been a lot tougher from day one, and that they've been tweaked in the patches and PTW, and will be in C3C.

I just wish that Firaxis had or will somehow adjust AI toughness for difficulty level, rather than just starting resources. The new aggression settings may help, we'll see.
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
Theseus is offline  
Old July 31, 2003, 02:54   #13
aneeshm
King
 
aneeshm's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:06
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Pune , Maharshtra
Posts: 2,853
Instead of making the AI tougher to deal with by giving it bonuses , why not make it adopt to the player's playing style and strategies . It won't be difficult , if done in a very general sort of way .

Eg-What type of units are built , builder or warmonger , whether the player attacks with a SoD or with many groups , what wonders the player goes for , etc .

Then even seasoned players might find the game more challenging , as each time they play , the AI has adopted to them , and the older strategies would not work . The data , of course , would be collected over a number of games the player plays .
aneeshm is offline  
Old July 31, 2003, 03:05   #14
Vlado
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 07:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 87
I would just like to have an AI that doesn't space his cities several squares apart, leaving plenty of unused tiles until the industrial age. I would also like an AI that has more then 0 gold in his coffers during the early ages and to see him take full advantage of the squares he's using, not just getting food only from his grassland...
Vlado is offline  
Old July 31, 2003, 03:38   #15
asleepathewheel
C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Emperor
 
Local Time: 01:36
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: listening too long to one song
Posts: 7,395
It might provide more of a challenge, to say, take a civ that has no inherent characteristics against civs with the x-bonuses. You would still get a GA through the UU, but with no special skills, I imagine the dificulty would be greater.

asleepathewheel is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:36.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team