OCC Comparison Game #1 2003

[Scouse Gits]

OK - popular demand requires a new OCC Comparison Game.

Try this one -- there are two viable sites (obviously) you can try (57, 43) which is on a forest, but has three Whales and a Fruit and is on the coast (with 1 river in the city radius) or...
(49, 39) with one Whale + 2 Fruit (one rivered) with eight river squares, but inland.

Medium map, Deity, Raging -- original save in 2.42, but you can play in MPG if you wish.

Choose whether or not you wish to play with or without huts - there are two very close.

Normal OCC rules - please post your logs below - closing date 31 August - I'm taking a fortnight in august - many others will as well.

SG[1] -

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
OK - popular demand requires a new OCC Comparison Game.

Normal OCC rules - please post your logs below - closing date 31 August - I'm taking a fortnight in august - many others will as well.

SG[1] -

Where will I find the "normal" OCC rules? I presume in OCC it's OK to pop huts.

And I suppose you will allow me to build Darwin's in my capital

RJM at Sleepers

[Scouse Gits]

The Paulicy is here http://www.paulvdb.cistron.nl/occ/occ.htm

The one page quick guide is here http://www.paulvdb.cistron.nl/occ/occref.htm

And a guide to what the log should contain:

Launch and Landing dates

Government changes with dates

WoWs with dates

Dates of first three trade routes

Landmark techs with dates:
Trade
Construction
Sanitation
Refrigeration
Automobile
Computers
Space Flight

Dates of Population landmarks (8, 12, 24, max)

and of course any and all other information of interest...

SG[1]

[Scouse Gits]

RJM - yes hut popping is allowed - but ELG evidence might suggest that it is counterproductive

SG[1]

[Hydey]

I would love too but...............

/me doesn't think he will have time

[-Jrabbit]

Well, I've just played my turns in 4 of the 5 succession games I'm in, and have only 3 turns left before an AC landing in my own game.

So pencil me in. This will be my first serious attempt at OCC...
I'm but of -- also of

[duke o' york]

My girlfriend is going away for a month from next week so I'm very tempted to play this. But can someone (preferably a Git volunteer) open a new spoiler thread so I don't accidentally open the wrong end of this thread to download the game and end up finding out where the AI civs are. That could make a heck of a difference to early trade if you know straight off where to send your vans.

[Scouse Gits]

DoY
If everyone is as rusty at OCC as I am it will be some time before we get to spoilers - but here's a target - I am currently in the 1760s and am about to get Flight

SG[1]

[duke o' york]

Well I shan't be holding out too much hope then. I tend to fire through well ahead of the AI until the construction of SS parts. I can obviously only build one a turn so it's a bit disheartening when cities they've only just founded start churning out a structural per turn.
It often then comes down to which civ I've chosen.

Are we white?

Anyway - I can't download the game until Tuesday evening but should be able to speed through the game after that.

[-Jrabbit]

It appears that a truly successful OCC is significantly predicated on managing the diplomatic relationships with other civs.

Query: Is there any evidence to suggest that, on average, the more aggressive MGE AI delays the date of the launch vs earlier versions?

Just curious...

[SlowThinker]

SG,
I am very sorry, but I want to play OCC Fortnight #21 (an Island and a mini Island with barbs) as my 1st OCC. It looks simpler

[duke o' york]

Er.
Um.

I'm not sure if I should go and fetch my Institute ball and chain, but I was playing last night and accidentally tipped a hut for an advanced tribe. This was only the third or foruth hut I popped but since I had forgotten to save beforehand then I may be in trouble. This led to a daft amount of micromanagament as I tried to get as many shields as possible amassed to buy and then disband a settler while ensuring that my one city (well, the original) was working rubbishy tiles to mean that I never made any "profit" on beakers overall.

Can I please have an official SG ruling on whether I'm allowed to continue this game or whether I have to drop out thanks to my stupidity and need to spend the rest of the month breaking rocks in the Institute.



Actually, aren't the Gits on holiday? Unless someone steps in then I shall continue to play and see what happens when I post my log and save.

[Old n Slow]

Don't you have your game options toggled with "auto save?"

Document your story as we'll want to hear about it regardless.

I'm not empowered for any kind of ruling, but my personal thought would be to 'do the best you can to minimize the advantage'; document the actions; press forward.

[Straybow]

I'm in a couple successions and one of Kramsib's Spanish Progressive games, which has grown into a perfectionist's dream (or nightmare?) with about 40 cities in the size 20+ range and half that many on their way. As my endurance wore down and µmgmt cranked up the turns took over an hour.

Remind me SGs, are the fortnights MP or what?

[duke o' york]

I always turn the autosave off at the very start of any game because I'm too lazy to keep deleting them from my system and when they all pile up from different games I have to go on a huge .sav killing spree.

I'm afraid that it doesn't make any difference any more.
My version of civ won't let me initiate dip relations remotely in this game and that doesn't give me a hope of OCC success. At Chieftain or Warlord or even Prince maybe then I might be able to go it alone but at Deity you need the diplomatic relations to succeed and I can't afford to waste resources by building a unit and lunking him up to the other civs' territory every time I fancy a chat or want to beg some tech. I also played too long into the game to make it worthwhile starting with a patched game.
Sorry all, but this game just wasn't fated to be.
On the other hand, now that I know some of the map, I'll let you all know the coordinates of two decent city sites for a small fee.

[-Jrabbit]

Well, I'm back from Canada and it's the18th.
I found my old copy of the Paulicy.
I will start tomorrow.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by duke o' york

My version of civ won't let me initiate dip relations remotely in this game and that doesn't give me a hope of OCC success.

What version is that?

[duke o' york]

Vanilla only.
I'd download the right patch but I keep leaving my disk at home.
Could steal one from work though.

[Elephant]

Originally posted by duke o' york
I always turn the autosave off at the very start of any game because I'm too lazy to keep deleting them from my system and when they all pile up from different games I have to go on a huge .sav killing spree.

In 2.4.2, Autosave only stores two files, XE_AUTO.SAV and XE_AUTO2.SAV. The first two letters of the file name are based on the Ruler Name of the game. The first file is saved just before the beginning of the current turn; the second file seems to be a backup of the first file from several turns ago. The only way to get more files than that in one game is to save them yourself. If you reuse the same RulerName they will just overwrite each other. If you play different civs constantly you can enter your own RulerName. Accepting the default will create more and more autosave files.

I'm afraid that it doesn't make any difference any more.
My version of civ won't let me initiate dip relations remotely in this game and that doesn't give me a hope of OCC success.

Get yourself a $5 or $10 copy of Classic/2.4.2 for MP and OCC.

On the other hand, now that I know some of the map, I'll let you all know the coordinates of two decent city sites for a small fee.

With HutFinder we can figure that out ourselves in about two moves...

[duke o' york]

Er, yes.
Also the Gits told us where the best two city sites are in the first post.
It was supposed to be a joke.

I always turn autosave off anyway although it does only give you one file. I just play so many games at once that it gets to be an annoyance.

Paying $5 for Civ 2 wouldn't get me very far because I'd have to either pay a fortune to travel to the US or have it sent back across the pond. I am still waiting for my eBay MGE to be delivered though, but I was hoping it would be here in time for the bank holiday weekend.
If there's another game next month then I'll chance my arm at that, but getting "We are always happy to speak with our allies the Romans" and then being pinged back to the map screen each time I tried to have a natter was irksome to say the least.

[Old n Slow]

Just got back from Micro Center -- picked up a copy of "the Strategy Gameroom" complete with Mech Commander Gold, Worms Armagedon & MGE for $6.00 total.

[Old n Slow]

I've started this OCC but as expected am going slowly. I'm at 50BC with 11 techs, a size 6 city & just completed MPE to co with the Col. Hopefully the great trading round will pay for this wonder.

[-Jrabbit]

I barely started -- built the city, but that's all.

What's today, the 25th??

[duke o' york]

I have just had MGE delivered to my desk, which is wonderful, but feel it'd be unfair to play this again (I got as far as building most of the Colossus before realising that my contacts didn't work. If anyone needs a few turns played in a succession then say so, but I'm not going to commit myself to anything long-term because my girlfriend comes back in a fortnight and I won't have much Civ time after that. ( but also )

[Elephant]

Dont think I'm going to be anywhere near finishing by the 31st.

[Old n Slow]

I think you guys are playing too hard.

I'm past 1750, so I'm no threat, but should finish -- probably with my usual last minute rush.

Yo Duke -- maybe your girlfriend would like to share your interests??

As far as finishes go, I didn't set the rules, but I think the attempt, & notes may have merit for the data collectors.

[duke o' york]

I tried that, but I can only really play on the PS version, because she actually needs her computer to do work.
That's why I didn't dust of my vanilla copy until she went on holiday. MGE is a bit good though. I just pootled around looking at the various scenario tools and some of the finished ones, but then played an OCC just for the heck of it. It was very easy with MGE because I got a NON chariot from an early hut and then spent the next few thousand years using him to whack the never-ending barb chiefs sent my way, and I was looking to have a certain victory when I went answer the phone and then pressed enter when I got back, forgetting I needed to shift my second settler away from the next load of barbs. It was a 50/50 whether he finished his railroad on the next turn and therefore survived, but I lost and gave up after that. A basic error, but one that I couldn't even rescue from autosave.
I'm raring for more though. Can't play tonight or even all next weekend, but every spare moment is going to be filled with micromanaging. Oh no.

[Scouse Gits]

Just got back and finished this game - I see no one else has posted yet - so there is no rush to get it done by the 31st - just enjoy it....

Gentlemen, my poor effort ...

Civ II - 2.42

Launch - 1830
Landing - 1845

Monarchy - 1850BC
Republic - 325BC
Democracy - AD780

WoWs
Colossus - 1800BC
Shakespeare's Theatre - 225BC
Copernicus' Observatory - AD120
Isaac Newton's College - AD740
Darwin's Voyage - AD1778
Apollo Program - AD1782

Trade #1 - 650BC
Trade #2 - 550BC
Trade #3 - 425BC

Trade - 1100BC
Construction - 500BC
Sanitation - AD580
Refrigeration - AD1280
Automobile - AD1600
Computers - AD1764
Space Flight - AD1780

Size 8 - 200BC
Size 12 - 100BC
Size 24 (max) - AD1770


4000BC - hut: Horseman; hut: 50g
3900BC - Gitsville founded (49,39)
3800BC - Fruit now has road
3650BC - Bronze Working->Ceremonial Burial
3500BC - Warrior; Size 2
3350BC - Ceremonial Burial->Alphabet
3200BC - Warrior#2; both river/grass squares now irrigated; Meet (pathetic) Carthaginians, refuse offer of Warrior Code, gift Bronze & CB, alliance; We are Supreme!
3100BC - Size 3; celebration impossible
3000BC - Warrior#3; Barb landing, 2 Archers + King next to Whale sweet spot; Start large statue
2950BC - Alphabet->Code of Laws
2800BC - Carthage discovered
2700BC - Barb King captured, 150g
2650BC - Horseman now holds wooded choke point
2600BC - Size 4; celebration still not possible
2500BC - Rivered Fruit becomes Silk - celebration now possible, but not cost effective
2450BC - Code of Laws->Monarchy (10 turns)
2400BC - Carts discover Mysticism - hmmm; Sioux destroyed by Barbs
2100BC - Keep Carts sweet with tech gifts; Egyptians start Pyramids
1950BC - Monarchy->Writing
1900BC - Revolution
1850BC - Monarchy established; 50% lux for celebration; rush statue - thanks Barb King
1800BC - Colossus; celebration; hold celebration @ 30% lux; start Temple
1750BC - Americans start Pyramids
1700BC - second Fruit turned to Silk, now 17 beakers/turn
1600BC - Writing->Currency; Temple changed to Library
1400BC - Carts develop Pottery
1350BC - Currency->Trade; Size 5; lux @ 40% to retain celebration
1300BC - Library completed, Marketplace started
1200BC - Carts come calling to gift us 50g (the treasury was 3g at this point!)
1100BC - Trade->Literacy; Swap Monarchy for Mysticism with the Carts
1000BC - rush MP - broke again
0975BC - MarketPlace - can reduce lux to 30%
0900BC - Literacy->Philosophy
0875BC - Thebes builds Pyramids, Americans abandon
0850BC - Caravan#1 built
0800BC - Carts develop Map Making
0750BC - Carts acquire Seafaring
0725BC - Philosophy->Medicine->Masonry; Caravan#2 built; Swap Philosophy for Map Making with Carts; Swap Maps with Carts; they gift us 50g
0650BC - Egyptians start Gardens; Carts at war with Zulus; Dye-Carthage: 58g, 4T
0625BC - Size 6, celebration maintained @ 20% lux
0600BC - Caravan#3 built
0575BC - Masonry->Construction; rush Temple
0550BC - Temple; Spice(d)-Utica: 168g, 4T
0500BC - Construction->The Republic
0475BC - Carts start on Gardens
0450BC - Carts develop Feudalism
0425BC - Wine(d)-Carthage: 160g, 4T
0400BC - The Republic->Mathematics; 75g from Carts
0350BC - Revolution
0325BC - Republic established
0275BC - Size 7
0250BC - sell Temple
0225BC - Shakespeare's Theatre
0200BC - Size 8
0175BC - Aqueduct; Size 9; Mathematics->Astronomy
0150BC - Size 10
0125BC - Size 11
0100BC - Size 12 - lux to 0%
0075BC - Egyptians switched to cope's from Wall
0050BC - 50g from Carts
0025BC - Carts have Iron Working
A.D. 1 - 50g from Carts
AD0020 - Carts at war with Egypt
AD0040 - 50g from Carts - Cope's is safe
AD0060 - Three Barb archers land surrounding my choke horseman; Horse kills one Archer and becomes vet, but ...; 50g from Carts
AD0120 - Copernicus' Observatory, Egyptians abandon
AD0160 - University->Theory of Gravity
AD0200 - University; Zulus destroyed by French
AD0220 - Barbarian uprising 4 Chariots, 5 Horse and a King oops! Theory of Gravity->Horseback Riding
AD0300 - Horseback riding->The Wheel
AD0340 - Barb King captured
AD0360 - The Wheel->Engineering
AD0380 - Unfriendly looking yellow elephant starts stamping in my back garden - rush City Walls
AD0420 - Give many techs to nasty yellow Ellie, but gain Peace and Maps; 25g from the Carts; Egyptians swap Iron working for The Republic
AD0440 - Engineering->Bridge Building (Sanitation not offered); Hides(d)-Malaca: 260g, 7T
AD0500 - Bridge Building->Sanitation; Greeks gift 100g
AD0580 - Sanitation->Invention
AD0600 - Sewer System; celebration
AD0620 - Size 13 - this may not last lonf - the Barbs made a mess of my irrigation
AD0640 - Size 14; Bank; Gold(d)-Caralis: 288g, 8T
AD0660 - Size 15; Invention->Democracy
AD0680 - Size 16 - that's it no more food
AD0740 - Democracy->Gunpowder; Isaac Newton's College
AD0760 - 50g from Carts; Egyptians still refuse to ally; Revolution
AD0780 - Democracy established; 50g from Carts
AD0800 - Gunpowder->Chemistry
AD0840 - Chemistry->Explosives; 50g from Carts
AD0880 - Explosives->Economics; 50g from Carts
AD0900 - Engineer#1
AD0940 - Economics->Metalurgy; 50g from Carts
AD0960 - Swap Gunpowder for Navigation, get 50g from Carts
AD0980 - Metalurgy->Physics
AD1000 - Engineer#2
AD1040 - Physics->Magnetism; Carts 50g
AD1060 - Size 17; 50g from Carts
AD1080 - Size 18
AD1100 - Magnetism->Steam Engine; Size 19;
AD1120 - Size 20
AD1160 - Size 21; Steam Engine->Electricity;
AD1180 - Hides-Carthage: 72g, 10T
AD1200 - Electricity->Atomic Theory (1200 beakers) Current Science @100% with 1 Ein = 600 beakers
AD1220 - Barb Frigate to SE - sh:t!
AD1240 - Atomic Theory->Refrigeration; yep 3 Barb Crooks + king land to SE
AD1260 - Cart Ellie kills Barb Crook and is killed in turn
AD1280 - Cart Knight copies Ellie; Refrigeration->Rail Road; Chivalry + 25g from Carts
AD1300 - Supermarket; 25g from Carts
AD1320 - 25g from Carts
AD1340 - StockExchange; Rail Road->Industrialisation
AD1360 - 25g from Carts
AD1380 - 50g from Carts; Alliance + 100g from Egypt (war with French)
AD1400 - Industrialisation->The Corporation; Coal-Caralis: 48g, 11T; Barb King, 150g; No gifts
AD1420 - maps
AD1460 - Uprising! 3Musks, 2 Cannon + King ; The Corporation->Refining; buy cannon kill musk; no gifts
AD1480 - stack reveals 2 more musks + 2 more cannon; buy cannon kill cannon; no gifts
AD1510 - Refining->Steel; Hides(d)-Carthage: 103g, 10T; Barb King 150g; maps
AD1520 - Bloody Barb Frigate on my Whale! 25g + 50g
AD1530 - Only one Barb Crook - kills itself against Cart Settler - do I want a boat? NO could never celebrate; 25g + 50g
AD1540 - Steel->Combustion; 25g + 50g
AD1550 - Road link with Caralis 16T; 25g + 50g
AD1560 - 25g + 50g
AD1570 - Combustion->Automobile; Hides(d)-Carthage: 106g; 25g + 50g
AD1580 - French camel blown away; 25g + 50g
AD1590 - Barb non Musk bought; 25g + 50g
AD1600 - Automobile->Mass Production; Leadership + 50g from Carts; 100g
AD1610 - Superhighways ; Trade 173, max science 1056; Carts start Darwin's - must keep an eye on this; 100g
AD1620 - Mass Production->Electronics; 100g
AD1630 - Engineer#3 (still lots to do); 100g
AD1640 - Electronics->Nuclear Fission; 100g
AD1650 - 100g
AD1660 - Nuclear Fission->Nuclear Power; Hides(d)-Leptis Parva: 248g, 21T; maps
AD1670 - no gifts
AD1680 - Nuclear Power->The Laser; Copper(d)-Caralis: 258g, 28T; 25g from Carts
AD1690 - Size 22; 25g, Seafaring from Egyptians
AD1700 - The Laser->Conscription; Hides-Leptis Parva: 128g; 25g
AD1710 - Egypt start Darwin; 25g
AD1720 - Conscription->Tactics; 25g
AD1730 - Size 23; 25g + 75g & Monotheism
AD1740 - Tactics->Machine Tools; 25g + 75g
AD1750 - At last - base production is now 33 (> 32); 25g + 75g
AD1752 - Machine Tools->Mobile Warfare; 50g + 75g
AD1754 - 75g; Gitsville finally manicured: 52 food, 192 trade & 33 shields
AD1756 - Mobile Warfare->Miniaturisation; 75g
AD1758 - 75g
AD1760 - Miniaturisation->Computers; Railroad link to Caralis, 37T each route; 75g
AD1762 - 150g
AD1764 - Computers->Robotics; 150g
AD1766 - Research lab - output 1776 beakers/turn; 100g; disband spare Engineer
AD1768 - Factory; Robotics->Flight ; 25g + 50g; Disband cannon
AD1770 - Nuclear plant; disband camel; Polytheism, 25g + 50g; Size 24
AD1772 - Manufacturing Plant (83+2 shields); Flight->Radio; start Darwin; 25g + 100g
AD1774 - 25g + 50g
AD1776 - Radio->Advanced Flight; 25g, two junk techs + 50g
AD1778 - Darwin's Voyage ->Advanced Flight->Rocketry->Space Flight; Dye-Caralis: 60g; 25g + 100g
AD1780 - Space Flight->Plastics; Wind(d)-Caralis: 227g; 25g + 100g
AD1782 - Apollo Program; junk tech, 25g + 100g - but they cost me 3 techs - guess the gravy train is over
AD1784 - Plastics->Superconductor; SSS#1
AD1786 - SSC#1; 100g (they bearded me)
AD1788 - SSC#2; Carts steal Plastics
AD1790 - SSC#3; Superconductor->Fusion Power;
AD1792 - SSC#4
AD1794 - SSC#5
AD1796 - SSC#6; Fusion Power->Espionage
AD1798 - SSM#1
AD1800 - SSM#2; French Dragoon comes calling, buy off with tech
AD1802 - SSS#2; Espionage->Stealth
AD1804 - SSS#3
AD1806 - SSS#4
AD1808 - SSS#5; Stealth->Amphibious Warfare
AD1810 - SSS#6
AD1812 = SSS#7
AD1814 - SSS#8
AD1816 - SSS#9; Amphibious Warfare->Fundamentalism
AD1818 - SSS#10
AD1820 - SSS#11; Swap Warrior Code for Explosives and gift Computers to keep Egyptian alliance get 100g which conveniently buys the Diplo
AD1822 - SSM#3
AD1824 - SSS#12; Fundamentalism->Combined Arms
AD1826 - SSS#13
AD1828 - SSS#14; Carthaginians request we declare war on indians - OK
AD1830 - SSS#15; LAUNCH expected landing 1845
AD1831 - Stealth Fighter; Combined Arms->Guerrilla Warfare
AD1832 - Stealth Fighter
AD1833 - Stealth fighter
AD1834 - Stealth fighter
AD1835 - Guerrilla Warfare->Labour Union
AD1839 - Labour Union->Genetic Engineering; close down science
AD1844 - all quiet, Gitsville now virtually surrounded by a ring of steel, no other civ has even started a SS.
AD1845 - Livia The Cruel lands on Alpha Centauri

SG[1]

[duke o' york]

I don't understand why you didn't bribe the barb ship when you had the chance. You had Shakespeare's Theatre at that point so the ship would have only meant a drain of one shield, and you could have still celebrated the population up so that this did not matter.


Good log though.
(duke still gutted that he had played so far before it knackered)
I had discovered the Zulus even before the Colossus was done.

[-Jrabbit]

Welcome back, Git [1] !!!

there is no rush to get it done by the 31st