Thread Tools
Old August 8, 2003, 12:04   #1
Sprayber
Apolyton Storywriters' Guild
Emperor
 
Sprayber's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: In Exile
Posts: 4,140
Security Guarantee For North Korea?
Quote:
Washington Times
August 8, 2003
Pg. 1

U.S. Ready To Offer N. Korea Guarantee

Security pledge not binding pact

By Nicholas Kralev, The Washington Times

The Bush administration yesterday said it is prepared to offer written security guarantees to North Korea in the form of a joint document with other regional powers in upcoming nuclear talks.

Although such a pledge would not be a formal treaty subject to congressional ratification, it nevertheless could be endorsed by Congress in a resolution, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell told reporters at the Washington Foreign Press Center.

"There should be ways to capture assurances to the North Koreans — from not only the United States, but we believe from other parties in the region — that there is no hostile intent among the parties that might be participating in such a discussion," Mr. Powell said.

"When one comes up with such a document, such a written assurance, there are ways that Congress can take note of it without it being a treaty or some kind of pact. A resolution is something like that — taking note of something."

In Tokyo, the Japanese newspaper Sankei Shimbun reported today that diplomats from the United States, Japan and South Korea will meet next Wednesday and Thursday in Washington to coordinate policy on North Korea ahead of six-nation talks on the communist state's nuclear weapons program.

The newspaper, quoting Japanese government sources, said senior diplomats from the three countries would hold "informal" talks on a joint proposal to North Korea.

The White House has said the North Korean nuclear threat can be dealt with diplomatically, but has not ruled out any options, including military action.

A security guarantee to North Korea in the context of a broad regional pledge with other countries would not change that stance because the guarantee would express intent but not be legally binding, administration officials said.

The issue is part of an intensive diplomatic effort to convene a meeting among the United States, North Korea, China, Japan, South Korea and Russia in the next few weeks.

Pyongyang repeatedly has demanded a nonaggression pact with Washington since President Bush assumed office in January 2001.

But the administration has rejected the idea, saying Mr. Bush's oral assurance that he has no intention of invading the North should be enough to satisfy the regime of North Korean leader Kim Jong-il.

Now, in an attempt to address North Korea's concerns before the planned multilateral talks, where Washington wants Pyongyang to agree to scrap its nuclear weapons program, the administration is pondering a compromise solution.

Several regional leaders, including South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun in an interview with The Washington Times in May, have called on the White House to consider offering a security assurance.

As it has done with the whole nuclear standoff, the Bush administration is trying to ensure that any security guarantees to the North involve all countries in the region.

That approach, the administration argues, would make Pyongyang less likely to cheat or break any new agreement it may sign, and would provide better accountability mechanisms if it did.

In explaining the logic, the administration cites the North's development of a secret uranium-enrichment program in violation of a 1994 nuclear deal with the Clinton administration, which Pyongyang admitted in October.

Since then, the North has reopened its plutonium plant in Yongbyon, closed after the 1994 agreement was signed, expelled U.N. inspectors and claims to have reprocessed 8,000 spent fuel rods that can be used in plutonium production — an assertion that has not been independently confirmed.

China, the most likely host of the multilateral talks and the most diplomatically active of the six participants in their preparation, yesterday sent a delegation to Pyongyang.

Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing is scheduled to visit Seoul next week. A U.S.-North Korea-China meeting was held in Beijing in April, but produced no results.

Russia, whose involvement in the nuclear diplomacy up to now has been limited, was the last country to be added to the list of participants in the talks, largely at Pyongyang's insistence.

Moscow yesterday said that it is not aware of any other conditions the North may have.

"The North Korean side has put forward no conditions and to my understanding Pyongyang is interested exactly in six-way talks," Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Yuri Fedotov told Japan's NHK television.

"The most difficult stage will come when these talks begin. And it is hard to expect any quick success. All parties will apparently need to be extremely patient, display constructive approaches and readiness to listen to the other side," Mr. Fedotov said.

Mr. Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, said yesterday that the administration is satisfied that its strategy of making the nuclear issue multilateral, rather than bilateral, is working well.

"It's a tough regime to deal with and heaven knows it's an opaque regime," Miss Rice said in Dallas. "But we're fairly sanguine that if you're going to get this done, it's going to have to be in coordination with other states."

Meanwhile, the North criticized upcoming annual joint war exercises between the United States and South Korea, saying they put in doubt Washington's intent of no hostility.

"The adventurous war game is aimed at steadily intensifying tensions on the Korean peninsula and, eventually, making a pre-emptive attack on [North Korea] and attaining the sinister strategic goal of the U.S. in Northeast Asia," said a statement by the North Korean Foreign Ministry carried by the official KCNA news agency.
I got this off the Army AKO site so I'll just cut and paste.

Do you guys think a security guarantee will actually pursaude N. Korea to scrap its nuclear program or not.
__________________
Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh
Sprayber is offline  
Old August 8, 2003, 12:06   #2
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
Washington Times?
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old August 8, 2003, 12:07   #3
:) Smiley
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
:) Smiley's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: hippieland, CA
Posts: 3,781
A security guarantee carries more weight than Bush's promise, as Bush's promise is basically only good for the length of his term in office.

The problem though, is what would happen if we made a guarantee and they broke it? We would essentially be forced to invade at risk of severe loss of prestige.
__________________
Visit First Cultural Industries
There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd
:) Smiley is offline  
Old August 8, 2003, 13:37   #4
MichaeltheGreat
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Apolyton Grand Executioner
 
MichaeltheGreat's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:05
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Fenway Pahk
Posts: 1,755
As the article says, it is an expression of intent only, and has no force of law.
__________________
Bush-Cheney 2008. What's another amendment between friends?
*******
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
MichaeltheGreat is offline  
Old August 8, 2003, 13:39   #5
Arrian
PtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamApolyton UniversityC4DG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Cake or Death?
Deity
 
Arrian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
Whatever, I have no problem with assuring them we aren't going to go in for "regime change" in NK.

Will it result in them actually scrapping their nuke program?





You must be joking. They'll never really give that up.

-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
Arrian is offline  
Old August 8, 2003, 19:36   #6
MichaeltheGreat
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Apolyton Grand Executioner
 
MichaeltheGreat's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:05
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Fenway Pahk
Posts: 1,755
But comrade, that's only because no matter what we say, we won't give up our warmongering, imperialistic design of unprovoked aggression against the peace loving North Korean people and their enlightened and beloved Dear Leader.
__________________
Bush-Cheney 2008. What's another amendment between friends?
*******
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
MichaeltheGreat is offline  
Old August 8, 2003, 19:49   #7
Proteus_MST
King
 
Proteus_MST's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Yuggoth
Posts: 1,987
If I were HEad of State in a Nation,
called by President Bush a member of the Axis of Evil,
I wouldn´t scrap my Nuclear Weapons for less than a Nonagression Pact.
__________________
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe which strives to produce bigger idiots. - software engineers' saying
So far, the Universe is winning.
- applications programmers' saying
Proteus_MST is offline  
Old August 8, 2003, 20:03   #8
DanS
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Deity
 
DanS's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Not your daddy's Benjamins
Posts: 10,737
It really depends on what the security guarantee would entail. I wouldn't want to guarantee the regime, although I wouldn't see anything wrong with writing our intent, given a set of circumstances that is generally favorable to us.

But I think that NK primarily is after a pot of goodies. Because of this, I don't think the trade of a security guarantee will give us much in return.
__________________
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
DanS is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 12:49   #9
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
see, this is what i really like about the bush administration's foreign idio--er, policy.

we should have decided on a definite policy a lot earlier.
we ought to have informed our allies before ditching them high and dry in a misguided but functioning framework, simply because it was a clinton initiative.
if we were so dead set against clinton's policy there, why the **** are we back to a policy which clinton would have gone along with anyway?

we could have saved maybe about two and a half years of heightened tensions in the region.

way to go.
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 12:53   #10
rmsharpe
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
Prince
 
rmsharpe's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 610
Yeah, let's keep a madman dictator which is ready to export nuclear arms in power.

Great strategy...
__________________
-rmsharpe
rmsharpe is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 12:59   #11
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
Quote:
If I were HEad of State in a Nation,
called by President Bush a member of the Axis of Evil,
I wouldn´t scrap my Nuclear Weapons for less than a Nonagression Pact.
because nonagression pacts have worked so well in the past...
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 14:03   #12
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus_MST
If I were HEad of State in a Nation,
called by President Bush a member of the Axis of Evil,
I wouldn´t scrap my Nuclear Weapons
. . . FOR ANYTHING!




edit: added FOR
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

Last edited by chequita guevara; August 9, 2003 at 14:16.
chequita guevara is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 14:09   #13
DinoDoc
Civilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
DinoDoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus_MST
If I were HEad of State in a Nation,
called by President Bush a member of the Axis of Evil,
I wouldn´t scrap my Nuclear Weapons for less than a Nonagression Pact.
Why blame Bush when Clinton and Carter make much more logical punching bags for the current mess we find ourselves in?
DinoDoc is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 14:12   #14
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
why blame clinton and carter when you can blame teddy roosevelt, truman, franklin roosevelt, mao, hirohito, yi sungman, kim jong il, and dean acheson?
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 14:14   #15
DinoDoc
Civilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
DinoDoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
Because this mess is a result of the idiotic deal that they worked out with the DPRK and I don't blame the other people you listed because I don't particularly care one way or the other if Korea is divided or not.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
DinoDoc is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 14:16   #16
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
So you think we should have gone to war in 1994 with NK DD?
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 14:18   #17
DinoDoc
Civilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
DinoDoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
Quote:
Originally posted by GePap
So you think we should have gone to war in 1994 with NK DD?
I think the deal should have gotten the nuclear stockpile they put in cold storage out of the country and included a much tighter inspections regime. We basically relied on Kim to be honest with no way to insure that he was and got predictable results.
DinoDoc is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 14:19   #18
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
Quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why blame Bush when Clinton and Carter make much more logical punching bags for the current mess we find ourselves in?
Maybe, but if the Phoney President hadn't started off his regime in the U.S. with a blast at North Korea and had instead pursued Powell's plan of negotiating with the DPRK (a continuation of the Clinton policy), maybe relations wouldn't have deteriorated to this point.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
chequita guevara is offline  
Old August 9, 2003, 14:23   #19
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I think the deal should have gotten the nuclear stockpile they put in cold storage out of the country and included a much tighter inspections regime. We basically relied on Kim to be honest with no way to insure that he was and got predictable results.
I fail to see how a tighetr inspection regme on existing facilities would have stopped the creation of new ones. Besides, we would have had to offer far more than we did, and given work on the two planned reactors barely ever got started, well.....

One gets what they are willing to pay for. Good leason learned by the North: increasde the stakes substantially and get a much bigger deal.

personally, if the BUsh admin. had engaged NK from 2001 on, perhaps a better deal could have been struck much earlier.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old August 11, 2003, 12:26   #20
Q Classic
Emperor
 
Q Classic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:05
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
Quote:
Because this mess is a result of the idiotic deal that they worked out with the DPRK and I don't blame the other people you listed because I don't particularly care one way or the other if Korea is divided or not.
root cause is not the idiotic deal in 1994. it's the idiot deal made long ago that allowed nkorea to exist in the first place.

this current mess is entirely the result of bush's idiotic 360 turnaround on his policy relating to the north.
__________________
B♭3
Q Classic is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:05.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team