August 9, 2003, 21:56
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#1
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Deity
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Web design: frames or no frames?
I've been working on some web pages for the past months and I have a huge question to ask, more of opinion rather.
I am undecided as to keep my pages with frames. The reason is that many of the pages can already be reached by Google and other web search engines. However, since so far my webs have been frame-based, whenever I click on a google-link, only the frame shows up, not the entire page.
THen I stoppped to think why so many pages lack frames and I belive that it is for this reason: to make them more google-friendly. The downside of course is that you will receive increased bandwidth since certain common parts like menu or content frames will now have to be loaded with each page.
My question therefore is: is there a way to get google to link to the pages and not the frames? I have a feeling the answer is no. if this is the case then I guess I'll have to re-edit my pages without frames.
Many thanks beforehand for the suggestions. The page I'm working on is here: http://ww2.masterzen.net .
-MZ
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A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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August 9, 2003, 22:04
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#2
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Deity
Local Time: 15:08
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NO FRAMES!
Frames are utterly useless for at least 99% of the time. They screw up bookmarking and navigation something fierce.
You will notice most of the big sites such as Poly don't use frames. You shouldn't either.
But frames aren't as evil as Flash.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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August 9, 2003, 22:31
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#3
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Deity
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Forget fansites, I'm talking about the big professional sites like newspaper pages or software sites... I've been checking and most of them don't use frames either.
No flash for me... mostly because I have no clue about Flash editing 
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A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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August 9, 2003, 22:40
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#4
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Emperor
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dp
Last edited by Frozzy; August 9, 2003 at 23:55.
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August 9, 2003, 22:49
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#5
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:08
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I hate frames. I always get stuck in them.
Use tables 
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August 9, 2003, 22:53
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#6
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Emperor
Local Time: 03:08
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Flash = Hitler
Frames = Stalin
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August 9, 2003, 23:50
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#7
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Deity
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Don't use tables, either. Get with the times, use CSS.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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August 9, 2003, 23:51
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#8
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Emperor
Local Time: 09:08
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Frames suck!
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Banana
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August 9, 2003, 23:51
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#9
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Emperor
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d00d, frames make your website  along with lots of animated .gifs, marquee text, and images for backgrounds. oh, and embedded .midis that you can't turn off.
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August 9, 2003, 23:54
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#10
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by ixnay
d00d, frames make your website along with lots of animated .gifs, marquee text, and images for backgrounds. oh, and embedded .midis that you can't turn off.
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Yeah, and different background graphics and fonts for every section please 
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Banana
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August 10, 2003, 00:38
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#11
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by BeBro
Yeah, and different background graphics and fonts for every section please
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OH OH OH YOU HAVE TO GET THOSE ONES THAT SCROLL WITH THE FACKING PAGE!!1! THEY ARE TEH 1337!
seriously though, i used frames when i was 12. i don't really like them for my use nowadays, but if you wanted to make an "enclosed" design (like http://www.r0x0rz.org/krux/ ) i don't see many ways to get around them.
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"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
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August 10, 2003, 01:18
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#12
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Emperor
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Frames used to be neat, but now that modems are fast and HTML design is usually complex, frames have been dumped, in favour of more user friendly navigation menus on the side or top.
They usually don't add up more than 5-10K to a page, unless you put large blinking animated gifs 
and yes, people who keep using 1000s of nested cumbersome tables, or spacer transparent pictures, should all be taken out and shot.
learn css and use it. or get a program to do it for you like top-style or something.
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August 10, 2003, 02:31
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#13
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Deity
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Well, you all have convinced me: SCREW THE FRAMES!!!
(now have to re-edit the whole damn thing)
Thanks for the suggestions guys!
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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August 10, 2003, 02:33
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#14
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sirotnikov
learn css and use it. or get a program to do it for you like top-style or something.
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I've learned CSS during the past couple of months and have slowly re-designed my site with them. They are incredibly powerful, giving you things that the regular HTML language doesn't and saves you a lot of bandwidth by having the formatting on one page alone.
I suggest people who have web sites to learn CSS, it's easy, even a someone like me who hardly knows HTML has learned!
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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August 10, 2003, 02:35
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#15
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by ixnay
oh, and embedded .midis that you can't turn off.
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I hate those!!!!  
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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August 10, 2003, 02:50
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#16
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Local Time: 03:08
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Only use frames if you don't have access to server-side includes.
The only use of frames is to maintains a single location for all your navigation links and server-side includes are a far better way of doing that.
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August 10, 2003, 03:31
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#17
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Emperor
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__________________
"Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln
Mis Novias
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August 10, 2003, 11:29
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#18
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Emperor
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I don't use ordinary frames, but I do use inline frames (the iframe tag) so whenever I need to change the navigation I don't hafta open up every blasted page and make the change.
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Visit First Cultural Industries
There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd
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August 10, 2003, 11:33
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#19
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Emperor
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I was going to offer my opinion in this thread, but I've found myself hypnotised by Siro's avatar.
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If I'm posting here then Counterglow must be down.
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August 10, 2003, 11:42
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#20
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
I was going to offer my opinion in this thread, but I've found myself hypnotised by Siro's avatar.
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ha, i agree its very distracting.
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Hold my girlfriend while I kiss your skis.
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August 10, 2003, 12:48
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#21
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Emperor
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LOL
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August 10, 2003, 12:51
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#22
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Prince
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Frames suck. Avoid!
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"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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August 10, 2003, 13:10
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#23
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
I was going to offer my opinion in this thread, but I've found myself hypnotised by Siro's avatar.
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yes, that "bounce" is one of those things you just can't stop staring at...
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
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August 10, 2003, 13:45
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#24
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Emperor
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I can't even remember what frames like? Can you find me a website that has an example of them????
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"mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
Drake Tungsten
"get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
Albert Speer
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August 10, 2003, 14:16
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#25
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Prince
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http://ermsays.net/gallery
I was using it as a nav bar, but only 'cos I'm lazy. None of the other sites I've done use them.
Actually, Poly's Civ2 section is framed. Damn annoying as well.
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Concrete, Abstract, or Squoingy?
"I don't believe in giving scripting languages because the only additional power they give users is the power to create bugs." - Mike Breitkreutz, Firaxis
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August 10, 2003, 17:00
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#26
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Local Time: 03:08
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August 10, 2003, 17:12
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#27
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Emperor
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oh yeah st. leo, that there is expert web design!
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"mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
Drake Tungsten
"get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
Albert Speer
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August 10, 2003, 17:21
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#28
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Emperor
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Holy God that's ugly.
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If I'm posting here then Counterglow must be down.
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August 10, 2003, 18:00
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#29
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Emperor
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Bloody hell... Gave me a jump.
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August 10, 2003, 18:19
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#30
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Emperor
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__________________
Visit First Cultural Industries
There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd
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