Censorship, eh?

[Qyl]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN LEARNING TO PLAY THE GAME? I KNOW HOW, I UNDERSTAND THE BASIC IDEAS. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING CIV FOR YEARS! I HAVE BEEN WINNING AT CIV FOR YEARS! BUT I AM NOT THE TOTAL CIV JUNKIE. MAYBE THIS GAME WAS MEANT FOR THOSE WHO ARE. WHY DOES THE COMPUTER GANG UP ON ME, AND IS THERE ANY WAY TO STOP IT? WHY DO I CONSISTANTY LOSE BATTLES THAT I SHOULD WIN, IS THE GAME THAT TILTED TOWARDS THE COMPUTER? HOW DO YOU STAY ALIVE WHEN YOU ARE FACED WITH AN ONSLAUGHT OF A MULTI COUNTRY ALIANCE AGAINST YOU? WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN NOONE WILL TRADE WITH YOU? WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU ARE STARTED OUT SOMEWHERE THAT DOESN'T HAVE IRON, AND YOU CAN'T FIND ANY (YES I HAVE THE ADVANCE NECESSARY TO MAKE IT APPEAR)? WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU HAVE NO TRADABLE RESOURCES? WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE COMPUTER BUILDS CITIES THAT BLOCK YOUR ROADS? WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT BUILDING A FORBIDDEN PALACE A REASONABLE DISTACE FROM YOUR CITY, WHEN YOU CAND GET ANY PRODUCTION OUT OF THE CITY BECAUSE IT IS A REASONABLE DISTANCE FROM YOUR CAPITAL (TOO CLOSE AND THE FORBIDDEN PALACE IS USELESS)? SOMEONE, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO WIN AT EVEN A MIDDLE LEVEL! THE OTHER CIV GAMES I WAS ABLE TO FIGURE OUT AFTER A FEW TRIES, THIS ONE HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT FRUSTRATING! I THINK THEY WENT OVERBOARD ON IT! SURE, THE TOTAL CIV JUNKIES DIG IT, BUT PEOPLE LIKE ME, WHO PLAYED AND LIKED CIV2 THINK THIS SUCKS! MY FRIENDS AGREE, AND ARE TOTALLY NOT MOTIVATED TO MESS WITH THIS GAME. WHAT IS IT WE ARE MISSING HERE? DO YOU HAVE AN ARTICLE WE CAN READ TO HELP US WIN AT THE JOWER LEVELS? ALL I KNOW IS THAT ANY GAME THAT YOU CAN'T JUST PICK UP AN DMESS WITH, AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO WIN WITHOUT EITHER SPENDING ENORMOUS HOURS, OR WITHOUT READING SOME ACTICLE, HAS LITTLE CHANCE OF APPEALING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE!

[The Mad Monk]

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble reading that. Please don't use all caps.

[Qyl]

What do you mean learning to play the game? I know how, i understand the basic ideas. I have been playing civ for years! I have been winning at civ for years! But i am not the total civ junkie. Maybe this game was meant for those who are. Why does the computer gang up on me, and is there any way to stop it? Why do i consistanty lose battles that i should win, is the game that tilted towards the computer? How do you stay alive when you are faced with an onslaught of a multi country aliance against you? What do you do when noone will trade with you? What do you do when you are started out somewhere that doesn't have iron, and you can't find any (yes i have the advance necessary to make it appear)? What do you do when you have no tradable resources? What do you do when the computer builds cities that block your roads? What do you do about building a forbidden palace a reasonable distace from your city, when you cand get any production out of the city because it is a reasonable distance from your capital (too close and the forbidden palace is useless)? Someone, please tell me what i have to do to win at even a middle level! The other civ games i was able to figure out after a few tries, this one has been nothing but frustrating! I think they went overboard on it! Sure, the total civ junkies dig it, but people like me, who played and liked civ2 think this sucks! My friends agree, and are totally not motivated to mess with this game. What is it we are missing here? Do you have an article we can read to help us win at the jower levels? All i know is that any game that you can't just pick up an dmess with, and figure out how to win without either spending enormous hours, or without reading some acticle, has little chance of appealing to a lot of people!

[MarkG]

yeah yeah censorship.....

try to think how you need to express your issues in order to get the best answer and then try again

it will be your last chance before geting a free weekend off the site to ponder again on how to properly communicate with other people

[The Mad Monk]

Hi Markos! How's the Army?

[The Mad Monk]

There isn't any kind of "tilt toward the computer" in combat, IIRC, but the RNG has always seemed to run to extremes (at least to me), so you'd thse incredible runs of good and bad luck.

The best way to keep the AIs from ganging up on you is to form alliances and sic 'em on each other.

[MarkG]

my current answer is : you get used to it

[Tiberius]

There is no easy or short answer for your problems, Qyl.
You could start by reading some excellent strategy threads, collected under this link:
http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...threadid=59216

Then you could post specific saves/screenshots in the strategy forum and the civ experts who lurk there will help. Just post the save or the shot, say what the problem is, and ask nicely for help. Most of the Apolyton veterans can win the game on Deity or at least on Emperor, without cheating, so you can do it too with the proper knowledge and strategy.

Oh, and welcome back Markos

[Qyl]

Let me do it point by point:
1- Why does the computer gang up on me, and is there any way to stop it (why do so many civs form alliance against me)?

2-Why do I consistanty lose battles that I should win, is the game that tilted towards the computer(is the computer given an advantage in battle, even at the lower levels, and if so what do I need to consider so I can have a chance of winning important battles)?

3-How do you stay alive when you are faced with an onslaught of a multi country aliance against you?

4-What do you do when no one will trade with you (several countries embargo you/set up an anti trade alliance)?

5-What do you do when you are started out on a continent that doesn't have iron, and you can't find any (yes I have the advance necessary to make it appear)?

What do you do when you have no tradable resources?

What do you do when the computer builds cities that block your roads? If you attack the civ, then things get bogged down in war and it can be tough to get anything else done.

What do you do about building a forbidden palace a reasonable distace from your city, when you can't get any production out of the city because it is a reasonable distance from your capital (too close and the forbidden palace is useless)?

Someone, please tell me what i have to do to win at even a lower level!

Do you have an article we can read to help us win at the jower levels?

[The Mad Monk]

What do you do when noone will trade with you?

Have you broken treaties? Don't do that, for starters. The AIs remember, and they tell each other about you. Also, as you go into higher levels, the AI's value their goods more highly relative to yours; this dosen't make trade impossible, but it does mean that you have to offer more.

What do you do when you are started out somewhere that doesn't have iron, and you can't find any (yes i have the advance necessary to make it appear)?

Trade for it (see above), and act real nice until you get it.

What do you do when you have no tradable resources?

You always have tradable resources -- gold, research, and maps, among others. Actual "resources" certainly make trading easier, but they aren't "required".

What do you do when the computer builds cities that block your roads?

Build culture. Lots and lots of culture.

What do you do about building a forbidden palace a reasonable distace from your city, when you cand get any production out of the city because it is a reasonable distance from your capital (too close and the forbidden palace is useless)?

Reduce the corruption level, natch!

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by MarkG
my current answer is : you get used to it

[Tiberius]

I provided you a link above. Please note that some threads collected there are old and some things have changed in the meantime (for example, the AI is tougher in PtW; actually it is "smarter" or more efficient).

[Solomwi]

This is all I meant. You've asked some of the same questions I had at first, and yes, the best thing to do is browse the strategy forum, even if just for a few minutes. A few quick answers that may help get you pointed in the right direction:

The AI Gang-up: Beat them to the punch. From the moment you make contact, consider your plans and uses for the rival civ, and their mood toward you. Trade whenever you can, right from the start. If you get into a war, get allies before your enemy does. All else being equal, the other AI civs will team up with you just as quickly as with the other guy. As MM says, always bear in mind how a move affects your reputation.

Tradable Resources: One word... REX (Rapid Early Expansion, okay one acronym, three words). Forget how you did it in Civ II and gobble up land left and right. Obviously, there's some thought that should go into city placement, but the basic rule is the more land you control, the more resources you're likely to control. This somewhat ties into the AI covering up your road, too. Either build cities out your road network quickly, or build cities nearby and build plenty of culture in them if the AI does get a chance to plop down a city. I had this happen in a current game, the Carthaginians covered up the only road I had to get my troops to the Mongol front. Until I could build out, I made a Right of Passage agreement with them. A couple of well placed cities with temples and a corridor literally opened up between his two cities, giving me my road back.

Embargoes: Can't say that I've ever been embargoed, at least not meaningfully, but my first piece of advice would be to be proactive, and either make sure as many civs as possible are dependent on your for a lux or resource (they are loathe to embargo someone with whom they have a deal going, especially if they are receiving the resource), or get those embargoes before your enemy does. My second, and my likely reaction to such a move, would be to go kick somebody's ass. If Greece has signed three civs into embargoes against you, and you make it so there's no more Greece, presto, no more embargoes.

Lack of a Resource: If possible, go to war to get a resource you're shut out of. Another option is to trade for it, though that doesn't really help if you're in the ancient age with no iron on the entire continent. When all else fails, try to hang on until the Iron Age ends and hope for Saltpeter. There are ways to cope, such as shifting into a builder mode, building LOTS of horsemen, archers, longbowmen and spearmen and using them wisely, or just keeping in mind that if there's no iron on your continent, the guys you're about to go to war with don't have it either.

Forbidden Palace: My favorite method is an early war. Fight long enough that you get a Great Leader, and use the leader to rush your FP. I tend to do it in the capital of the civ I just crushed. I've never failed to get a leader and use it this way when I go to war with this as one of the goals. A lot of people will put it very close to their capital, then later, when the empire's taken shape a bit more, move their palace to the new core. I'm sure others could give you even more ways to effectively get it up and running.

What I've said here is, like I said, just one small small step in the right direction, I hope. The posters here are as knowledgeable as you'll find, and don't mind helping. Heck, when I first started reading these forums, I was afraid to go to war on Warlord level until I had modern armor. Now I start each game salivating over possibly pulling off the vaunted "Arrian Deception", which has so far eluded my grasp.

The best piece of advice I've picked up here, though, is this: "Forget everything you learned in Civ II."

[CerberusIV]

Qyl. The game can be beaten but it is deliberately rather different to Civ2 and many Civ2 tactics don't work. That means unlearning them, for example don't irrigate grasslands until you can change government from Despotism. Combat is different and terrain and other factors have major effects on the outcome of battles.

Tiberius has given the best advice, play a game until you feel you are having difficulty then post a save in the strategy forum. A number of people are likely to try and help but be prepared to get constructive criticism.

[Tiberius]

There is one more thing you can do: join the Democracy Game and watch how others are doing it. You will learn a lot.

The Demo Game is a human vs. computer game, where the human player is a a team of Apolyton members, all of them having a word in what should be done to win the game. Check the appropriate forum.

Also in the Strategy forum you will find the Apolyton University, a series of games meant to compare playing styles and strategies and to teach new players ... err, better ask Theseus what AU is (just kidding, read for yourself in the AU thread).

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by Qyl
Let me do it point by point:
1- Why does the computer gang up on me, and is there any way to stop it (why do so many civs form alliance against me)?

The AI likes to dogpile the weakewst player (human or AI). Make sure you are not the weakest player. In addition make fireinds and allies of the AI players yourself.

2-Why do I consistanty lose battles that I should win, is the game that tilted towards the computer(is the computer given an advantage in battle, even at the lower levels, and if so what do I need to consider so I can have a chance of winning important battles)?

The computer doesn't get bonuses in combat at all. Make sure you understand how combat works. In particular the bonuses defenders get.

3-How do you stay alive when you are faced with an onslaught of a multi country aliance against you?

I usually try to form a counter-alliance if I am not strong enough to go it alone. This implies getting along well with a few of the AIs and keeping something tradeable in reserve.

4-What do you do when no one will trade with you (several countries embargo you/set up an anti trade alliance)?

Don't trade. Seriously I consider this a reason to go to war. The AI likes to stick it to the player who is loisoing already. Get out of the bottom place.

5-What do you do when you are started out on a continent that doesn't have iron, and you can't find any (yes I have the advance necessary to make it appear)?

Research boats and get off that island ASAP. I have played and won as the Romans with no Iron or Coal.

What do you do when you have no tradable resources?

I usually take them from my weakest neighbor.

What do you do when the computer builds cities that block your roads? If you attack the civ, then things get bogged down in war and it can be tough to get anything else done.

Why did you let him build there? Attack him take the city, sue for peace.

What do you do about building a forbidden palace a reasonable distace from your city, when you can't get any production out of the city because it is a reasonable distance from your capital (too close and the forbidden palace is useless)?

Wait or use a Great Leader.

[Gufnork]

1- Why does the computer gang up on me, and is there any way to stop it (why do so many civs form alliance against me)?

As been previously mentioned, gang up on them first. It's a lot easier to win a war when you're many against one, so with time the civ you're warring will bribe everyone else to join them. You have to beat them to the punch.

2-Why do I consistanty lose battles that I should win, is the game that tilted towards the computer(is the computer given an advantage in battle, even at the lower levels, and if so what do I need to consider so I can have a chance of winning important battles)?

The reason the AI wins more battles they should lose is because you rarely do that unlike the AI. Had you attacked as stupidly as the AI you'd see that freaky luck could be on your side too.

3-How do you stay alive when you are faced with an onslaught of a multi country aliance against you?

First, make sure it doesn't happen with the advice under 1. If that fails, make peace with the most dangerous foes. Those on another continent are rather harmless, ignore them (unless you don't have to pay anothing for peace). Also get any civ that isn't involved against you on your side. And if you can, cut off the enemies key resources (without iron, the worst they could field is horsemen until musketmen and cavalry).

4-What do you do when no one will trade with you (several countries embargo you/set up an anti trade alliance)?

People really don't like you, do they? Well again, being proactive in the alliancedepartment will spare you from this. Getting your friends to embargo against you is expensive. If they still do it, make sure they have nothing to bribe with (hint: take their stuff!).

5-What do you do when you are started out on a continent that doesn't have iron, and you can't find any (yes I have the advance necessary to make it appear)?

Cry. Then you get the Great Lighthouse, send out a ship expedition with a settler and scout for iron. Even if the city will be useless in terms of production and commerce, it can still net you reasorces. Get a worker, build a road to the iron and rush a harbor. If that doesn't work, you'll need to war someone to get it. Trade iron with someone and start building an army, then go to war (with someone else) until the iron is yours. After that you can sue for peace or just take the rest of his stuff too.

What do you do when you have no tradable resources?

No biggie. It gives you some nice friends and extra cash, but you can do without it.

What do you do when the computer builds cities that block your roads? If you attack the civ, then things get bogged down in war and it can be tough to get anything else done.

Get a RoP. If the civ that owns the city isn't way ahead of you in culture, then surround his city with culture and try to flip it.

What do you do about building a forbidden palace a reasonable distace from your city, when you can't get any production out of the city because it is a reasonable distance from your capital (too close and the forbidden palace is useless)?

Easiest way is to get a Great Leader and rush build it. You could do the tedious way and start building it early and just wait it out. Or place it poorly in a city with production and hope to relocate the palace later with a Great Leader when you get one.

It's much harder to be a builder in Civ 3. Going to war is almost necessary if you want to stand a chance. In many ways I find this great. Going to war for a resource is as common in Civ 3 as in real life. A greater flexibility in a player is needed and also more skill. This game can provide a challenge for practically everyone, which is rare in TBS.

[vmxa1]

Looks like you have plenty to ponder. If things are going as you say, then it would be worth the time to post a save from 4000BC and then one say at 50 turns.
Make an action report that shows any significant moves during that period. I would post this in a new thread.
This will allow others to see what is going on and make specific suggestion.
Many players have moved up to emperor level after posting similar stories. I hate see anyone not enjoy themself playing Civ. The three big issues tend to be use of workers (including having enough), expanding quickly and relations with the AI. The first two are easy, the other is not.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Qyl
Let me do it point by point:
1- Why does the computer gang up on me, and is there any way to stop it (why do so many civs form alliance against me)?

There are several reasons for this. The first is that your reputation is bad. Breaking deals before the term of the deal ends will sully your reputation. Remember to make sure you have no units inside the cultural borders of another civ before declaring war or it will be viewed as a ROP violation (one of the quickest ways to ruin your rep). The next most logical reason is that your military is weak vis-a-vis the civ's that are ganging up on you. Build up your military and make sure your border towns have several units in them to deter attacks. Also try to get alliances before the AI does. It may cost a little but Most AI's are more willing to discuss peace when faced with war on a number of fronts.

2-Why do I consistanty lose battles that I should win, is the game that tilted towards the computer(is the computer given an advantage in battle, even at the lower levels, and if so what do I need to consider so I can have a chance of winning important battles)?

As mentioned before the combat system is radically dfifferent when comparing CIV 2 & 3. Terrain modifiers determine the outcome much more in CIV 3. Also CIV 3's combat is much more oriented towords numbers of units where as CIV 2 was oriented more towards the quality of the unit (This influence can be reduced if you are willing to mod)

3-How do you stay alive when you are faced with an onslaught of a multi country aliance against you?

If you can't find allies of your own then your civ will die. Try not to get in that situation.

4-What do you do when no one will trade with you (several countries embargo you/set up an anti trade alliance)?

Gifting AI's can be quite useful in the early game in order to preven this from happening in the later game (see #1 in regards to reputation, it applies here as well)

5-What do you do when you are started out on a continent that doesn't have iron, and you can't find any (yes I have the advance necessary to make it appear)?

You have to trade for it or explore the map further to find it (remember that there are military units that do not require Iron, it may require a military campaign to aquire it)

What do you do when you have no tradable resources?

You can use gold, maps or communication trading to complete a deal.

What do you do about building a forbidden palace a reasonable distace from your city, when you can't get any production out of the city because it is a reasonable distance from your capital (too close and the forbidden palace is useless)?

You can also move the palace and set the FP near the origional capital to make sure your origional core cities stay corruption and waste free. The corruption level can also be modified in the editior. For further info on this I recommend a search on Corruption, City Placement and Palace Moving.

[Azeem]

Minor tip in attacking: if you're going to attack a city, make sure that you're NOT attacking it from the other side of the river, since that gives them a defense bonus. Move your units to the other side of the river, but don't attack the city. When it's next turn and you've already crossed the river, then you attack the enemy city.

[Gufnork]

I have to disagree with that tip. It leaves you vulnerable for counterattack. Unless you're sure reinforcements can't arrive and that he has no longbowmen or similar to counterattack with I'd just go ahead and attack. That river gives you a defensivebonus against counterattacks as well. Of course, if you have 2 or 3 movement points left you should cross the river before attacking.

[vmxa1]

The tip that attacking across a river is valid. How to best exploit that knowledge is another story altogether.

[Theseus]

I'd rather cross to a hill or mountain, if possible, and attack the next turn.

[Lord_Davinator]

terrain understanding, unit familiarity, and diversions... its an all out war my friend