European heat wave kills thousands - Page 3

Ted Striker · August 17, 2003, 01:11

Heat waves kill more people than any other natural disaster.

That includes floods, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc...

Dis · August 17, 2003, 02:54

Las Vegas has no facitilities set up to keep the elderly cool.

Well except for casionos

. That's where all the elderly go anyways.

Trust me, if we had a power outage like New York, we would have thousands of people dying.

HershOstropoler · August 17, 2003, 04:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor

According to Libération, 19000 people have died in France since July 25, and there were only 16000 during the same period last year.
I'd assume a fraction of this variation comes from the demographic evolution, but I suppose the huge majority of this variation comes from the heat.

Mortality rates flactuate a lot and are closely related to the weather, even without extreme conditions (eg winter mortality is usually higher). France seems to be the only one doing such an estimate by year to year comparisons. Though I'm sure if you compare a very mild week of 2002 with a normal week in 2003, you'll have hundreds more deaths. You also get higher mortality due to high ozone concentrations, smog etc. In the end, it's a statistical game of how close a connection to the heat you require to determine a heat-related death.

As for AC, in a normal year I'd need it on maybe 5 days at most. Not really worth it... that may change for a lot of southern europe though.

Cimbri · August 17, 2003, 09:55

The heat is wearing off here in Northern Europe. So long, heat wave

Sava · August 17, 2003, 10:42

Quote:

It's Bush's fault!!!

since when did you become a Bush-fan-boy? geez...

anyways, Bush DID manipulate documents from HIS OWN EPA that mentioned global warming. He carefully omitted all references to it.

It's a shame, Spiffor. What is the French government doing to help people? In Chicago, they have these special city groups that come to the aid of senior citizens, bringing water, etc. The city also has air conditioned shelters that people can take refuge in.

alva · August 17, 2003, 10:48

It's actually quite cold here today, now where 's that sun!

Sava · August 17, 2003, 10:51

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
It's actually quite cold here today, now where 's that sun!

It's been reasonably normal in the Chicago area. As usual, it's beastly humid and muggy. Summer started with a seemingly unending band of thunderstorms, now it's more of a cycle of 4 or 5 90+ degree days with gross humidity, then a T-Storm, then one reasonably mild day around 75-80... then 90's again. I don't mind heat.... I hate humidity.

The Mad Monk · August 21, 2003, 02:59

It's getting worse...

Quote:

13,600 KILLED BY HEATWAVE Aug 21 2003

UNDERTAKERS in France estimate the recent heatwave killed more than 13,600 people.

Funeral home giant OGF say almost 3500 people will have died in Paris alone by the end of the month.

Their figures are almost two-and-a-half times the French government's heat- related death toll. Health minister Jean-Francois Mattei conceded on Monday that it was "plausible" that up to 5000 people may have died in France, almost twice as many as previously feared.

However, he insisted that figure was a hypothesis and that the final toll was not expected for several weeks.

The OGF toll is based on comparisons with last August's death rate.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/co...name_page.html

Hercules · August 21, 2003, 07:00

Dry heat I can take during the day. It's the humidity I hate

And at the other end -25C I can tolerate quite well for a while but it's wind chill that makes it unpleasant outdoors.

So -25C with no wind is bearable but say -18C?with wind chill lowering the temp to -25C is not.

Spiffor · August 21, 2003, 07:20

Quote:

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
It's getting worse...
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/co...name_page.html

Ugh.
I've just read an article about this in Libération. While these figures have a margin error (funeral companies extrapolate their own extra activity to get these figures), they sure are really worrisome.

However, so far the most reliable figures are those of the State, since it registers every death and can count them with 100% fiability. An Inquiry has started and should show its results in the next month as to how many people have dies because of the heat. Figures are already extremely high, with about double mortality in Paris and such

Heresson · August 21, 2003, 09:52

I was in france during the heat wave; the worse was when I was travelling over 800 kms from Netherlands to Poitiers
in a car without air conditioning... And there was no shadows at the stops, so the car was getting even hotter than... It was bad. But I'd have never suspected there'd be
such losses. Scary.

Spiffor · August 21, 2003, 10:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Heresson
I was in france during the heat wave; the worse was when I was travelling over 800 kms from Netherlands to Poitiers
in a car without air conditioning... And there was no shadows at the stops, so the car was getting even hotter than... It was bad. But I'd have never suspected there'd be
such losses. Scary.

I hope you didn't have any traffic jams. Under such weather, jams can really be bad for your health (pollution + heat).
Did you open your windows during the travel ?

Heresson · August 21, 2003, 15:14

What a care

I did open window, but only a bit, as my parents didn't allow me to open them more. The result of of the onened window after several days was stucked ear - I barely heard anything through it for a couple of days.

The Mad Monk · August 22, 2003, 03:57

"Stucked ear"?

TheStinger · August 22, 2003, 04:12

How were any of the deaths the govts fault, are they supposed to alter the weather now

lightblue · August 22, 2003, 04:52

Not really, but the hospital services should've been prepared for a larger than usual influx of patients, which they weren't if I get it right.

Pekka · August 22, 2003, 05:03

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe...p?story=436017 says over 10 000 because of the heatwave.. what a summer for France..

Heresson · August 22, 2003, 05:23

Quote:

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
"Stucked ear"?

I just mean I didn't hear anything.

The Mad Monk · August 22, 2003, 05:39

Huh. Why would an open window cause that?

Heresson · August 22, 2003, 08:54

The wind and/or the noise of it could cause that.
Something else could, as well.

Dis · August 24, 2003, 02:31

actually I was wrong when I said a blackout where I live would easily kill thousands.

Apparantly the casinos do have big enough generators to supply 80% of their power. I had no idea they had generators that big. Theyd didn't mention if that included the A/C units. But I guess it does. And that 80% includes 80% of the slot machines. Yup, Vegas will still be making money if the entire city is blacked out.

The Mad Monk · August 30, 2003, 07:11

...and the beat goes on...

Quote:

French heatwave kills 11,435 in two weeks
By Jo Johnson in Paris
Published: August 29 2003 18:12 | Last Updated: August 29 2003 18:12

The heatwave that roasted France this summer killed 11,435 people in the first two weeks of August alone, making it, in human terms, one of the worst natural disasters in the country's history.

The provisional figures in the first government estimate, published on Friday, do not take into account the abnormally large number of elderly and frail people who have continued to succumb to the effects of the freak temperatures since the end of the heatwave. The head of the French hospital co-ordination service said it was "undeniable" abnormal numbers were still dying.

The government of Jean-Pierre Raffarin, prime minister, has been criticised for failing to snap out of holiday mode to implement measures that might have saved lives. The swath of deaths has also prompted wider soul-searching about modern family life and declining inter-generational solidarity.

The elderly people whose deaths went undiscovered for days and whose bodies were not picked up from overcrowded mortuaries played a part in prompting President Jacques Chirac to call for national reflection on ageing and dependency. He promised that "everything will be done" to correct failings in the health system.

On Tuesday, Mr Raffarin, who has until the start of October to draw up a plan, said France should cancel one of its public holidays to finance better care for the elderly. One scheme would see employers pay an extra day's social security contributions into a special fund, officials aid.

"It would require everyone to pull together," said one government official, who pointed out that employees would be expected to work the extra day without pay for the scheme to succeed. "We don't know yet whether it could raise €1bn or €3bn, but we are analysing which public holiday might be the most lucrative to cancel."

Polls show 70-80 per cent of people say they are willing to work a public holiday if a day's worth of social security contributions is paid into a fund to care for the elderly. French workers are legally entitled to five weeks' holiday and 11 public holidays. The 35-hour week also allows many to take days off during the week.

The idea has also won applause from business. Ernest-Antoine Seillère, president of the Medef employers' lobby, welcomed the proposal. "The idea we might solve some problems by actually working more is a real first in France, at least for the last five or six years," he said, welcoming what would represent another small reversal of the 35-hour week.

However, many politicians and economists have simply dismissed the idea as a gimmick designed to allow the government to deflect what is expected to be stiff opposition to its plans to reform healthcare.

François Hollande, Socialist party leader said the measure "at first looks generous but on closer inspection penalises workers at a time when the government is announcing lower taxes for the better off". Unions have suggested the government should also hold Christmas on leap years and make children join the workforce.

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentSe...=1012571727088

Spiffor · August 30, 2003, 07:56

I'm pretty sure they'll get rid of May 1st if they're serious (because all other holidays except for Bastille Day are of religious origin).
If they aren't serious, they'll get rid of August 15th (Mary's assumption) because it's in the middle of the vacations anyway.

But I hope Chirac will keep his word and will indeed launch a real reflection about our dependent and elderly. We have been ungrateful to our old ones for really too long (and it seems to be a trend in all modern societies: the increase of life expectancy didn't lead to a moral adjustment about the elderly)

Lefty Scaevola · August 30, 2003, 10:25

Well, France is working on a solution to their persion problem. Have the family lock the old folks up in a attic room during an August heat wave with a few baguets and a bottle of Algerian wine, cash the last pension check, and go to the beach while they bake to death.