Thread Tools
Old August 16, 2003, 21:16   #1
TheArsenal
Apolyton University
Prince
 
TheArsenal's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 900
Leaderless
The facts: Regent, Large Map, 127f. About 1930 A.D. Taken the turn after winning a domination victory playing as Persia.

The impressive part of this shot is not the amount of land conquered. At Regent difficulty and a single landmass, most people on these boards could do this at a trot and win much earlier at that. What makes this unusual is that even with careful use of my Elites and every city from Egypt, the Aztecs, India, Germany, the Mongols, the Americans, Japan, China, Arabia and Babylon taken by force not one single leader was generated.

Not one.

I’ve never seen anything like that before.
Attached Thumbnails:
Click image for larger version

Name:	minimapdom.jpg
Views:	205
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	51576  
__________________
"Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"

Last edited by TheArsenal; August 16, 2003 at 21:24.
TheArsenal is offline  
Old August 16, 2003, 23:00   #2
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
Nice game anyway. I had two AU games that nearly got no leader. Both games generated two leaders with in turns of ending. I thought I was going to make it without one and this was after lots of wars. So it is hard to do, but does happen.
vmxa1 is offline  
Old August 17, 2003, 13:22   #3
Theseus
PtWDG Gathering StormApolyton UniversityApolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-LeagueC4DG Gathering StormApolyCon 06 Participants
Emperor
 
Theseus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm!
Posts: 8,907
As Persia as well... high level of unit survivability in through the mid-game.

That sucks... but a good win nonetheless.
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
Theseus is offline  
Old August 18, 2003, 05:29   #4
Lord_Davinator
PtWDG Roleplay
Warlord
 
Local Time: 12:59
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Kathmandu
Posts: 261
I certainly does not make sense... I'mplaying with Persia... had tons of elite immortals in the early game and got a great leader only when I had tanks... it certainly is a draw back in the game that leaders are only produced out of wars... and without a single leader generation you lose out on how many? 3 small wonders?
__________________
Without music life would be a mistake - Nietzsche
So you think you can tell heaven from hell?
rocking on everest
Lord_Davinator is offline  
Old August 18, 2003, 16:22   #5
TheArsenal
Apolyton University
Prince
 
TheArsenal's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 900
Quote:
As Persia as well... high level of unit survivability in through the mid-game.
As well as proving a leader is not a given, this game was very instructive for a few reasons: I have always treated Large Maps much like Huge Maps and accordingly have not altered strategy greatly. So the common wisdom for me going into games was I needed a civ with a fast moving UU (China, Arabia, Ottomans, etc.). This has caused me to neglect Persia with its single movement Immortal.

What a mistake. Time to state what everyone else already knows: this unit in the human’s hands is as devastating as its civ’s traits are overwhelming.

Second “duh” item: I always chase the GL on a Pyramid pre-build. Having to start by researching Iron Working, as makes sense with this civ, I ended up completing the Pyramids. This is a powerful wonder I have been foolish to neglect.

The third is there is no accounting for the AI. The red cities on the map were Japan, which I was in the final stages of taking out when the game ended. What accelerated this process was when I declared war on a 10 or so city Japan, they in turn declared war on a neutral France. If the AI was a human, I would assume France declined an Alliance or Japan thought it could stay alive by picking off less defended French cities than going after my more fortified metropolises. In the end I have assigned it to the random insanity of the more aggressive AIs (see also: Zululand).
__________________
"Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"
TheArsenal is offline  
Old August 18, 2003, 18:45   #6
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
My sense is that since PTW 1.14 and beyond is that leaders are harder to come by and being a non military civ makes it a bit harder yet. It does not seem to be a big factor the number of wars I have.

Last 3-4 games with non Mil, I got 3 or less (leaders), jumped to China and got 15. I fought about the same number of wars. Again this is just my perspective, nothing more.
vmxa1 is offline  
Old August 19, 2003, 13:12   #7
Lord_Davinator
PtWDG Roleplay
Warlord
 
Local Time: 12:59
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Kathmandu
Posts: 261
the number of wars definitely make a difference... if you are constantly at war with different civs the chances of getting great leaders is much higher... being at war with the same civ for an extended period of time decreaes the number of great leaders produced... but this is what I have expereinced in my games... not something that I would call fact... only opinion...
__________________
Without music life would be a mistake - Nietzsche
So you think you can tell heaven from hell?
rocking on everest
Lord_Davinator is offline  
Old August 19, 2003, 14:54   #8
gunkulator
Prince
 
gunkulator's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 434
I'd speculate that PTW monkeyed with the odds of getting a leader, especially for non militaristic civs. Not necessarily a bad thing since militaristic ranks only slightly above expansionist in most people's book. I'm playing the Ottomans now and despite many centuries of war up to the current time, 1800, I have yet to get a single leader.
gunkulator is offline  
Old August 20, 2003, 04:06   #9
bongo
lifer
PtWDG2 Mohammed Al-SahafPtWDG Neu DemogypticaCivilization III PBEMC3CDG Blood Oath HordeIron CiversC4DG The HordeC4WDG éirich tuireann
Emperor
 
bongo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MOOHOOHO
Posts: 4,737
I don't think the odds have changed, it's just that when the odds of getting a leader is so low in the first place you are bound to get some games with 'strange' numbers of leaders(either very few or very many, I've seen both) You're just witnessing randomness behaving....random?
__________________
Don't eat the yellow snow.
bongo is offline  
Old August 20, 2003, 14:10   #10
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
I have definitely noticed a difference in the amount of GL's I get pre and post PTW.
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old August 21, 2003, 08:04   #11
bongo
lifer
PtWDG2 Mohammed Al-SahafPtWDG Neu DemogypticaCivilization III PBEMC3CDG Blood Oath HordeIron CiversC4DG The HordeC4WDG éirich tuireann
Emperor
 
bongo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MOOHOOHO
Posts: 4,737
Well? More or less?
__________________
Don't eat the yellow snow.
bongo is offline  
Old August 21, 2003, 11:05   #12
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
Less
vmxa1 is offline  
Old August 21, 2003, 11:25   #13
Oerdin
Deity
 
Oerdin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
I concur. Less.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
Oerdin is offline  
Old August 21, 2003, 11:41   #14
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
Less, Not as in Les Miles of WKRP in Cincinatti though.
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old August 21, 2003, 11:47   #15
TheArsenal
Apolyton University
Prince
 
TheArsenal's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 900
Nesman.
__________________
"Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"
TheArsenal is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 11:47   #16
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
hi ,

the arsenal , can you attach a save or so , .....

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 15:21   #17
pauli
Prince
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: herndon, va, usa
Posts: 436
help out a colorblind reader here: is that one green and one yellow civ intertwined, or just jpeg artifacting?
__________________
it's just my opinion. can you dig it?
pauli is offline  
Old August 31, 2003, 15:36   #18
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally posted by pauli
help out a colorblind reader here: is that one green and one yellow civ intertwined, or just jpeg artifacting?
hi ,

green pink and red , maybe one or two others on the small island on the left , ......

copy the screenshot and blow it up , ......

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old September 1, 2003, 06:52   #19
Paddy
Iron CiversApolyton Storywriters' GuildThe Courts of Candle'BreBtS Tri-LeagueC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamC3CDG Blood Oath HordeCiv4 SP Democracy GameC4DG The HordeC4WDG éirich tuireannApolytoners Hall of Fame
Prince
 
Paddy's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:29
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: at the beach
Posts: 40,904
great looking game....
__________________
Gurka 17, People of the Valley
I am of the Horde.
Paddy is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:29.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team