Captain Nemo, Please Read

Djugashvili · December 26, 1999, 00:13

I seek wisdom from the God of Scenarios, Captain (Komrade) Nemo. If I may know, Komrade, how is it you used the DOS prompt to change the seasons on Red Front? I noticed at the bottom it said 'events file removed.' How does this whole thing work? I was thinking of doing something similar in the scenario I am working on now, not to reflect the change in season, but to reflect different eras of soviet history. If you could find the time, I would appreciate a visit to the thread I created on the Civ2 Creation Forum devoted to my new project. Any input would be welcome. So how about that DOS thing, huh?

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"When You Kill One, It Is A Tragedy. When You Kill 10 Million, It Is A Statistic"
-Comrade Stalin

Captain Nemo · December 26, 1999, 08:05

Thank you for the endorsement, but most of the things I use in Red Front are borrowed from others who figured these things out and deserve the real credit! (Michael Jeszenka in the case of the batch file to change the seasons)
How it works:
Simple as far as replacing the rules, units, cities, terrain1, terrain2 files but, as you may have noted, if you reload a saved scenario, it "remembers" the original events, even if you have changed the event file later.
To get rid of the previous events you must run "delevents" on the saved game which gets rid of the embedded events and allows the game to pick-up a new events.txt file when you reload it...
Simple...
BTW,the "Delevents" utility was only available with the FW version so I included it in my Red Front files.
Good luck!

MagyarCrusader · December 26, 1999, 15:05

Hahaha! I didn't get gyped. Allard was the one who invented the process, I was just the first to put it into practice. As for the change of seasons, that idea came from Petroski, but I finished my scenario before he did.

Djugashvili · December 26, 1999, 15:34

Okay, whoever thought of it...

Thank YOU.

Allard HS · December 26, 1999, 18:20

Quote:

Hahaha! I didn't get gyped. Allard was the one who invented the process, I was just the first to put it into practice.

As for me, I don't remember it completely; I'm getting old, my memory is leaving me, but I believe that Alex was the first to have the idea. I simply simplified it a bit and made it ready for common use, as is still viewable in one of the Sleague's tips.

a bit late but.... MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!! or:
Kalá Christoúyenna (kè kalí chroniá)!

Djugashvili · December 26, 1999, 18:21

Swedish! That's Swedish, right?! Swedish...

Stefan Härtel · December 26, 1999, 19:14

No, that's Greek. At least I think so

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Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

We who grew up tall and proud
In the shadow of the mushroom cloud
Convinced our voices can't be heard
We just want to scream it louder and louder:
"What the hell are we fighting for?"
"Just surrender and it won't hurt at all"
-Brian May (Queen)

Allard HS · December 26, 1999, 19:26

Swedish? I don't speak a word Swedish.
Let me give you two hints; it's supposed to be written with Greek letters, and Markos knows what it means.
I can also do it in some more languages:
Prettige Kerstdagen (dutch)
Prettig Kerstfees (afrikaans)
Joyeux Noël (french)
Frohe Weihnachten (german)
Merry Christmas (english)
that's about it, i guess.

Allard HS · December 26, 1999, 19:29

Damn, Stefan was faster than me

Djugashvili · December 26, 1999, 19:31

Don't forget Feliz Navidad, mi Padre.

(Senora Volland would be proud

)

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"When You Kill One, It Is A Tragedy. When You Kill 10 Million, It Is A Statistic"
-Comrade Stalin

Allard HS · December 26, 1999, 19:41

what does that mean then?

hey let's stop this now; we're ruining the thread. yeah, I know i started it but still..
[This message has been edited by Allard HS (edited December 26, 1999).]

Djugashvili · December 26, 1999, 19:46

Okay, 'Feliz Navidad, mi Padre' means 'Merry Christmas, my Friend' in spanish.

Now, back on subject...

Djugashvili · December 27, 1999, 01:35

ahh, so Mike got gypted. Tell him he's effectively thanked. Anyhow, I'll see what I can do with that information; people are sending me lots of ideas on the other forum and I'll consider using this one.

NickC · December 27, 1999, 03:15

For my uocoming Greek Revolution scenario ( http://members.xoom.com/crownciv ) "The Dream of Kolokotronis" I was going to have the name of the scenario be the word "FREE" but I couldn't find a text editor to let my type Greek letters.

It is something like this:
"EYeuOepos"
With an upside down "Y", accent marks over the first E and the u, and a line through the O (not through it, just in the middle of it, in a way that is hard to explain).

That's one thing I hate about Greek, I may be Greek, but there are no well-made text editors for different languages!

------------------
Nick Crown (Greek.)
Yasou!

Djugashvili · December 28, 1999, 23:17

Hey, Nemo, while I (hopefully) got your attention, how do you feel about me using the industry idea from Red Front and 2194 Days for my new Soviet Union scen? Do you think it is flagrant copying, or could I make it somewhat original? I REALLY love this idea and I think it would fit perfectly in with the topic of my project. Whaddaya think?

NickC · December 28, 1999, 23:38

The industry idea was from Anstieg by John Petroski, so you should be asking him, not Captain Nemo. We will also do this in Aufstieg.

Djugashvili · December 28, 1999, 23:54

Okay, same question, JP, just with your name in place of Nemo's?

(btw, sorry I keep on giving credit to Nemo for everything; he's just the first example of guys who use these that comes to mind.)

Captain Nemo · December 29, 1999, 07:54

That's interesting... 2194 Days of War came out long before Anstieg. I don't even know if John uses the "mining" improvement to create the industry? I haven't played Anstieg (It's for MPGE)

It is possible that John and I had the same idea without copying eachother's.

However, I don't really care about getting credit for an idea that's really not that original.

For something better, make an industry "terrain" that can be created by the engineers then you have control over the production settings... Also the basic square could be industry (5 shields, 5 trade) and the special ressources could be a refinery (5 shields, 10 trade) and a steel mill (10 shields, 5 trade) for example... These could only be "terraformed" out of flat land, ie plains and grassland.
That's if you have unused terrain slots available.

DarthVeda · December 29, 1999, 14:02

You know nemo, I've done that before, I think I introduced it in GangWars, just not so complex.

I was going to use it in Rising Sun (Now renamed to Kyokkou), until I came acrost a stroke of Genius (that will make the player's life just that much harder).
[This message has been edited by DarthVeda (edited December 29, 1999).]

Djugashvili · December 29, 1999, 14:05

What was that 'stroke of Genious'?

DarthVeda · December 29, 1999, 20:14

You'll just have to wait till Feb/March to find out!

Or jump on the Playtesting train when it comes around...

Correction on the name... it will be called Kyokujitsu: Rising Sun

I've finished a rough draft of the units.bmp file and am about to begin work on the Jul 1937-Apr 1938 rules file.
[This message has been edited by DarthVeda (edited December 29, 1999).]

Djugashvili · December 30, 1999, 02:18

Nemo: when's version 1.3 coming out? I'd sure love to play it right about now between my sessions of working on TRAFOTSU.

DarthVeda: can you pencil me in for playtesting now? your scen sounds great...

Everybody: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
[This message has been edited by Djugashvili (edited December 30, 1999).]

Captain Nemo · December 30, 1999, 07:48

Djugashvili:
It's tough to decide on where I cut it off...
Right now what's ready is:
New 1941 AI strategy (More aggressive)
New units: Pz38t, Su-122 + multiple versions of some units "upgrading" automatically through the game.
New winter graphics for Soviet tanks (Thanks Kevin!)
Some other revised graphics.
Some revisions to map/cities (Still missing your notes on city locations)
Some changes to the events.
I have not worked much on the "third season" (Fall/Spring) yet, though Darthveda has and says it works. That would still require a lot more work (Like 8 new event files!) and I don't know if I'm up to it right now...

I'll gladly send you a "preview" copy of what's done to date, just let me know...

Djugashvili · December 30, 1999, 15:52

Yeah, sure! That'd be great! I already got from you part 2 from an e-mail you sent not to long ago. I don't quite understand what I'm supposed to do with it though...

Djugashvili · January 1, 2000, 05:44

Okay, Nemo, I thought I'd give you a report on version 1.3, (I played a little today) so here it is:

-The first thing that jumps out at me was that during oct41, the computer notifies me there are too many units and I can't build anymore. This aborts production of critical AA batteries in Stalingrad and Leningrad, among other places. I know this can be fixed by just me killing a few units, but you can see what the problem would be if Leningrad didn't get those AAs in 1941... (I played on deity)

-I noticed the Pz38t Light Tank and the PzKwIII Panzer have identical stats. What's up with that?

-I also noticed you deleted a few coal mines near Ashkhabad and other towns that made good city spots. Why?

-Are we supposed to build minefields with the additional Labor Brigades in the cities? I never build minefields, and am often successful when I don't. Where should we build them that would really slow the Germans down? Or are we supposed to figure that out ourselves?

-The villages and the Stalin Lines: I figure they're there for an extra obstacle to slow the Nazis down, but if that's the case, they're not very good at it at all. What're they there for?

-I think the bribing problem is pretty serious now. They bribed a fortifed position in a fortress near Kharkov, and if that unit retains it's defensive value, it's going to be a hell of a time killing it later. The Germans also seem to be bribing more lately...

-And perhaps for a little flavor, couldn't you rename a few labels? Say, from 'gold' to 'ruble', and 'world' to 'The Front' or something? Do you know what I'm talking about? Might make it more interesting...

Everything else looks great, so long as the map gets fixed, which I suppose you plan on doing. I like the new Socialist Pragmatism wonder icon with Stalin on it, and those Wespes are a real pain in the ass...

Great Job!

[This message has been edited by Djugashvili (edited January 01, 2000).]

Captain Nemo · January 1, 2000, 15:34

Good grief!
It's good that I get this feedback while I still can fix the problems! Thank you very much, Djugashvili.
I have never seen a problem with too many units before... I'll remove a few starting units in Western Germany (Which isn't threatened anyway)to avoid the problem.

The Pz38t was added for "historical accuracy reasons" at the request of Darthveda. PzKwIII and Pz38ts (Czech-made) were the backbone of the German Panzerdivisions in 1941. My reference books said that they were superior to PzKw-II and pretty much equal to PzKw-III... They dissappear by the winter of 1942-43 to make room for the Panther's in the spring of 1943.
(BTW, if I made them just a little weaker than the PzKw-IIIs, as I was going to, the AI disbands them because the PzKw-III is in the "Knight" spot which controls production of any other unit with move 2 or more)

Sorry, I deleted a few of the "ressources" that seemed out of place (Paper mill in the middle of impenetrable forest, sawmill alone in the middle of area of Taiga, full working coalmine 100's of miles from nearest road)
That was for realism, I didn't realize those were good spots for cities... But there are still a few prime spots for placing cities. left...

Minefields: Don't feel obligated to build them. I usually make a line of them between Leningrad and Narva and lay some around Stalingrad. They have a double bonus: If they have no roads on them units will stop as soon as they enter them (Except for "alpine" units) and the units that stop on the minefield defend at half strength so tough units like Panzergrenadiers, 88s and Karls are easy pickings in a minefield. I use them not really to "slow down the Germans" but to fortify cities that I refuse to lose. I pillage the roads in the Moscow minefields too and that forces the Germans into really bad attack positions.

The Stalin line is nothing but fluff. Historically, it was there but it got overrun within a week of Barbarossa. It just gives the human player the "illusion" that he has a line of defense to fall back to... Mean isn't it!

The villages are a new trick of mine for the German AI: Typically for an aggressive AI you would create new units in a succession of cities like Leningrad, Narva, Tallinn, Riga, Kaunas.
This would cause your reinforcements to show up in the closest city to the front as the Germans capture more and more cities. The move commands then "grabs" the units in each city and move then forward to attack the next. Well, this has a drawback because units created in cities often will immediately fortify themselves and your offensive stalls when the units stop moving forward. Creating them outside cities doesn't work because it would causes German units to show up far behind the Soviet lines, not very realistic... So here come the villages, stationary units "holding" the spot where future German reinforcements will appear. Until the Germans front units reach the spot and "dispatch" the village. I gave them double defense against air to avoid planes taking them out before the bulk of the German ground units get there.

How many unit bribes did you get? That is really a problem... That fortified position will eventually turn into "rubble" in a later part of the game. If the Germans bribe the Fortified batteries around Leningrad and Sevastopol it's really trouble as it really weakens the defense of those cities.

Great idea with Rubles and Front... I'll look through the Labels and Game files and see what else I can do.

Djugashvili · January 1, 2000, 17:02

About the bribing: The Germans seem to be bribing things they didn't normally, such as a fortified Red ARMY unit. They also, of course, bribed the fortified partisan on a mountain, and some other hard-to-kill units. The changed text when they bribe a unit to the traitor thing is good, but it's kinda weird when ONLY the units with the best defensive position defect, at least in most cases.

Haven't yet bribed any of the batteries, but I'm sure they will. And I had to stop playing my current game because the too-many-units thing got very frustrating...

And I just remembered the most nit-picky thing in the world:
You know how, when they attack, the red guards sing a little of the Soviet Anthem? That anthem wasn't even heard until 1943, but red guards appear two years before that. How could they sing a song that has yet to be heard? FYI, the soviet anthem before that was the Internationale. (I'm not expecting you to do anything to fix this; I just thought I'd point it out

)
[This message has been edited by Djugashvili (edited January 01, 2000).]

Captain Nemo · January 1, 2000, 19:30

Djugashvili:

Fantastic that you picked that thing about the anthem up! Yes, it's a piece of the soundtrack from "the Hunt for Red Oktober" that is used. I like it better than the "Internationale" and it would be pushing it a little far to swap soundfiles too, wouldn't it?

I wonder why the unit limitation thing is showing up now... I didn't add a significant number of units since the last version... Maybe just too many German units created via events?

My latest game had an interesting first:
The Yugoslavian partisans really amounted to something! They captured Sarajevo and are using it as a base for further attacks against the Germans... The Germans are diverting significant numbers of tanks and planes to Yugoslavia...and having a tough time beating partisans fortified on mountain tops.
So I had to create a Yugoslavian/Barbarian flag for the cities.gif file... Do you know if it should be the same as the Post WWII flag.

Djugashvili · January 1, 2000, 20:01

Yeah, I kinda figured you got the soundbite from The Hunt for Red October (That was a good movie). But I don't think it's necessary to switch the sounds midgame, unless you could find a good clip of the Internationale and it doesn't require any special attention to change it.

About the Yugoslav flag, were the Yugoslavians communist right after the war? I assume they were, and in that case I would suppose you should use the post-war flag. It was had red, white, and blue stripes with a red star in the middle, right? That would look pretty good. But the Yugoslavs never really contribute anything whenever I play.

Something HAS to be done about the unit thing, though. It is EXTREMELY irritating not being able to build additional units for several turns...

And did you read my post about the map? About the Italian Infantry? I think this would be a good idea because Italy did play a role in Barbarossa, right? I don't think it would be TOO hard to implement this, but it's your call.

[This message has been edited by Djugashvili (edited January 01, 2000).]

Captain Nemo · January 2, 2000, 00:54

I got the flag right! Yes, Marshall Tito was the leader of the Partisans in Yugoslavia and then sole ruler of Yugoslavia from 1945 till his death when the country split up into the current messy disaster.

Yes something will be done about those units... It is the extra German units created by events to insure capture of all the key cities that is causing the trouble. I added 2 "create-unit" commands triggered on kills that cause a mass of new German tanks to be added to the game in 1941... They are the culprits! I will delete units to make room for them.

I am missing a slot for Italian infantry in the game...Something else would have to go for Italians to enter the game... and what about Bulgarians and Hungarians?