"Deregulation increased the vulnerability of the grid to failure" - Page 2

Berzerker · August 26, 2003, 02:26

Sava -

Quote:

I did no such thing. I don't know where you got this idea... And despite your selective reading, I've consistently labeled Clinton as de-reg friendly.

The last thread you started blaming Bush and the GOP. I've never seen you start a thread accusing Clinton or Davis of being responsible, so telling us you've "labelled" Clinton while your threads consistently blame Republicans shows a bias.

Lefty Scaevola · August 26, 2003, 15:10

Quo usque tandem abutere, Sava, patientia nostra? Quam diu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? Quem ad finem sese effrenata jactabit audacia?

Defiant · August 26, 2003, 15:13

Hey Look! Your ink ran.

Adam Smith · August 26, 2003, 16:13

Just came acorss this while working on another topic.

edit: OK, why doesnt this display as a graphic?

Imran Siddiqui · August 26, 2003, 18:30

AS: I think it has to be a .jpg or .gif file to display as a graphic.

The Mad Monk · September 28, 2003, 07:25

Was Italy's blackout caused by deregulation?

Drake Tungsten · September 28, 2003, 07:47

I don't know if deregulation caused it, but I'm sure Bush is involved somehow, that unelected bastard.

Dis · November 19, 2003, 22:48

can't find the other blackout thread.

Well maybe de-regulation did cause the blackout

These companies are cutting costs and neglected to trim trees near the power lines.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/11/19/bla...eut/index.html

Urban Ranger · November 20, 2003, 02:25

Quote:

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
The "deregulation" aspect is complete nonsense. To blame "deregulation" for transmission system issues is either complete ignorance or complete fabrication to suit an agenda. You can ***** about supply issues and market issues, rightly or wrongly, but not transmission system issues, for one very simple reason:

Restructuring, (

, Gorbachev called it that too, but as usual, the bureaucrats and vested interests have to sabotage it to preserve their status), which is what it's called in the industry, has never addressed transmission or distribution system ownership, control, or rate issues with the sole exception of creating open access.

I can't see how they can be completely separate issues. Deregulation generally causes a contiual shrinkage of margins. Therefore, the generators cannot afford to pay a premium on transmission prices, thus exerting a downward pressure, forcing these to cut their costs too.

JohnT · November 20, 2003, 08:27

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

Quote:

Industry critics have cited deregulation of the nation's power industry for cost-cutting by utilities to boost profits. The maintenance, or tree-trimming, budget is often a target.

"It's one of the things that can get moved around in a budget," said Clark Gellings, a power grid expert with the Electric Power Research Institute, an industry-funded group based in California.

"Your boss tells you to cut 10 percent from this year's budget because things aren't looking very good, and so you look around and say, well maybe we'll delay this," Gellings said, describing industry-wide utility practices.

Nothing like mere supposition without any supporting evidence to put in a "news" article!

Dis · November 21, 2003, 03:01

they are only reporting what the critics are saying. The news isn't saying that themselves.

JohnT · November 21, 2003, 09:11

Frankly, "what critics say" is never news in and of itself, though it gets fobbed off as such all too often.

Thoth · December 1, 2003, 19:30

Quote:

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

Sounds more like a lack of adequate black start capability, or synchronization problems. What's your approximate mix of generator types, or are you primarily importers of hydro from other parts of Canada?

IIRC, most of the electricity in Ontario is hydro-electric or nuclear. It was the nuke plants that took time to get back on-line.

MichaeltheGreat · December 1, 2003, 19:39

Yeah - they're extremely slow to get back online from a full shutdown.

monolith94 · December 1, 2003, 19:48

When things go wrong under a regulated system, they will say that they would have worked under a deregulated system. When things go wrong under a deregulated system, they will say that it would have been much worse under a regulated system...

I don't trust anyone.

MichaeltheGreat · December 1, 2003, 20:39

So what do they say when one part of a system is deregulated (not really, but that's beside the point), and one part of the system is still regulated the same as it has been for decades? And the regulated part of the system is what failed?

"Aaah, we need more regulations."