Turn Planning/Reports

[Mr. President]

Funny you should mention trusting the Pirates.

AS a follow up to the ethical calc trade message, I was wondering if you folks would be interested in a pact ?

This is a personal diplomatic note as I have not yet polled the faction on this issue but I was wondering if there would be any interest in pacting for trade and mutual security.

Such a pact could grow into a pact for life with a view at winning a co-operative victory ( if both factions want to attempt this) but my personal view is baby steps first . . . unless of course your faction will only pact if its forever.

I look for any preliminary thoughts you might have, prior going to the effort of polling our faction.

Is a pact
possible ?
unlikely ??
only possible if we define a few things ?

Ambassador Flub

[GeneralTacticus]

Same as before; we're now only 2 turns away from getting the VW, assuming no-one beats us to it.

However, I'm really starting to get the impression that we need another turnplayer... with Archaic inactive and moomin having basically quit, I'm the only one 'authorised' to play the turn, and if I were to be unavailable (as I will be at some points over the enxt couple of weeks), we'd be screwed. Anyone want to volunteer for the position?

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by Crimson Sunrise
Funny you should mention trusting the Pirates.

I'd say we would benefit from the pact, at least in the short term. We would get increased commerce and access to the Pirates' maps. I also think we need allies against the Hive and the Pirates' don't seem like a bad choice.

Before we enter the pact, I'd like to see some signs of trust from the Pirates'. More specifically, I'd like them to trade us the Cyborg comm frequency (for a reasonable price) and I'd also like to know if they have met any other factions. What I'm fearful of, when trading with the Pirates, is that they might be trading our techs to the other factions. If we were in a pact, we could at least observe if this is happening.

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
Same as before; we're now only 2 turns away from getting the VW, assuming no-one beats us to it.

I'm afraid we will be beaten to it. Should we try to get the Merchant Exchange if either the Hive or the Cyborgs snatch the VW?

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
However, I'm really starting to get the impression that we need another turnplayer... with Archaic inactive and moomin having basically quit, I'm the only one 'authorised' to play the turn, and if I were to be unavailable (as I will be at some points over the enxt couple of weeks), we'd be screwed. Anyone want to volunteer for the position?

There aren't very many choices, are there? Crimson Sunrise, me and AdamTG02 are the only active people here in addition to you. Now, I could volunteer for the position but I must note that I'm yet to actually play a PBEM (I'm about to start one, though). So if Crimson Sunrise or AdamTG02 are more experienced and want this position I'd be willing to let them have it. However, I have a reasonable amount of time at the moment and I think I would be able to play turns quite reliably within 24 hours.

[GeneralTacticus]

Originally posted by Minute Mirage

I'd say we would benefit from the pact, at least in the short term. We would get increased commerce and access to the Pirates' maps. I also think we need allies against the Hive and the Pirates' don't seem like a bad choice.

Before we enter the pact, I'd like to see some signs of trust from the Pirates'. More specifically, I'd like them to trade us the Cyborg comm frequency (for a reasonable price) and I'd also like to know if they have met any other factions. What I'm fearful of, when trading with the Pirates, is that they might be trading our techs to the other factions. If we were in a pact, we could at least observe if this is happening.

Agreed.

I'm afraid we will be beaten to it. Should we try to get the Merchant Exchange if either the Hive or the Cyborgs snatch the VW?

If they do, and there are no other CPs coming up that we would find useful, we might as well; but, although of course I'm concerned, I'm not convinced we will be beaten to it. We're only two turns away, and IIRC, we started first.

There aren't very many choices, are there? Crimson Sunrise, me and AdamTG02 are the only active people here in addition to you. Now, I could volunteer for the position but I must note that I'm yet to actually play a PBEM (I'm about to start one, though). So if Crimson Sunrise or AdamTG02 are more experienced and want this position I'd be willing to let them have it. However, I have a reasonable amount of time at the moment and I think I would be able to play turns quite reliably within 24 hours.

I wouldn't say experience at PBEMs is really a factor - hell, I've only played in two or three. If you've got time to play the turns in, there's no real reason why you couldn't play the turns - ditto for Adam and CS.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
If they do, and there are no other CPs coming up that we would find useful, we might as well; but, although of course I'm concerned, I'm not convinced we will be beaten to it. We're only two turns away, and IIRC, we started first.

We haven't actually "started" the project -- all we've done is built crawlers. When the Hive built the HGP and the PTS they finished the SPs one turn after starting to build them -- that is, they cashed in their crawlers. Either the Hive or the Cyborgs could very well be doing the same thing now, which would mean that they'd complete the Virtual World next turn. Well, we'll see soon enough.

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
I wouldn't say experience at PBEMs is really a factor - hell, I've only played in two or three. If you've got time to play the turns in, there's no real reason why you couldn't play the turns - ditto for Adam and CS.

I'm happy announce that I'm a PBEM veteran now -- I just played my first turn . Joking aside, I can play the turns but we need to decide beforehand who's playing which turn. Or we could decide that after a certain time has passed since we've received the turn anyone can play.

Regarding the Pirates, I wonder on how good terms they are with the Cyborgs. They said earlier that they would be getting Ethical Calculus from other sources, which could well have been the Cyborgs. But now they're asking the tech from us and at the same time they're getting increasingly friendlier towards us. Maybe the Cyborgs have ceased trading techs with them?

[Archaic]

I've finally finished all my assignments for this semester, so I can resume playing the turns as of this week. Sorry about the long time of inactivity.

I think we could probably benifit from a pact moreso than PEACE. We have very little really to hide, while they have the potential commlinks, the tech they've traded, and so on and so forth. And that's not even going onto how we'd likely benifit more from the commerce with the playstyles in our team.

I have to wonder though why they're suddenly so open to it, especially when this is Herc and Flubber we're playing. Those two almost never agree to Pacts in game that I've experienced, unless they're too weak to be of significance, or the other person is.

[GeneralTacticus]

Maybe one of the factions they've met is threatening them - or maybe they're getting paranoid about the Hive.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by Archaic
I've finally finished all my assignments for this semester, so I can resume playing the turns as of this week.

That's good. I assume you and GeneralTactius can handle the turns now.

Originally posted by Archaic
I think we could probably benifit from a pact moreso than PEACE. We have very little really to hide, while they have the potential commlinks, the tech they've traded, and so on and so forth. And that's not even going onto how we'd likely benifit more from the commerce with the playstyles in our team.

I agree. Perhaps only thing we have to hide is how our bases are defended. I would like to see some sort of defensive units in our coastal cities, as well as defensive probes.

Originally posted by Archaic
I have to wonder though why they're suddenly so open to it, especially when this is Herc and Flubber we're playing. Those two almost never agree to Pacts in game that I've experienced, unless they're too weak to be of significance, or the other person is.

This does seem a bit odd. Perhaps we should try asking them straight? Though we might not get the truth (certainly not the whole truth), their answer might be revealing.

[Minute Mirage]

Surprise, surprise. The Hive built the VW. In addition, the Drones have started the ME. The good thing is that we didn't cash in our crawlers or waste our money in upgrading.

[Minute Mirage]

Some suggestions concerning the turn 2138:

The former NE of University Base in (77,37) is building a solar collector. Is this really needed? Since we're running FM and the square has a river, we're already getting the maximum 2 energy from the square. The elevation of the square is only 130m, so we're not going to benefit that much from the solar collector anyway. If we're going to build something on that square, I'd say a farm would be much more useful, because we're only two turns from researching Gene Splicing. Another possibility would be a road leading to Zoloto-Gold.

Budushii Dvor:

I'd recommend rushing the Recreation Commons for 2 ECs.

Zoloto-Gold:

We could change the doctor to a worker in the forest in (77,33) and then rush the Recreation Commons for 44 ECs.

Otkrietia-Discovery:

Change worker to doctor to avoid drone riots next turn.

Mir Lab:

Production could be changed to Recycling Tanks or a colony pod.

University Base:

I'd love to build some probe foils here, but it seems we haven't traded for Doctrine: Flexibility yet. How is the trade coming along? In the meantime, we could build a Children's Creche or even a colony pod.

Koppernigk Observatory:

Recreation Commons might be a good idea.


I'd also like to upgrade the scout in Budushii Dvor to a trance scout.

Our Unity Foil in (13,35) is two squares away from a Unity Pod in (10,36). I wouldn't like to pop the pod with the scout aboard, because of the chance of getting an Isle Of The Deep. Instead, I'd explore further north because it's quite apparent there's land nearby.

[AdamTG02]

With the Hive having built both the HGP and VW, I think it's reasonable to make plans for an eventual war of conquest against them. This would be a long-term plan, but has some short-term ramifications. First, we should be receptive to the Pact offer from the Pirates. As Archaic mentioned, we stand to gain more; furthermore, with the sealanes open and protected, we stand a good chance of having the advantage qagainst the Hive -- with the right SPs.

That's the next thing. If we embark on this course, we should make a concerted effort to capture the Citizen's Defense Force, to put our defense on an equal footing with the Hive's. That means prioritizing Doctrine: Loyalty and Intellectual Integrity as soon as we can lift restrictions -- possibly even sooner. We should use our available crawlers to construct the Merchant Exchange, to speed our research, and we should lay long-term plans for a "Super-Science Base" with massive energy output, at which we intend to build the Merchant Exchange, the Supercollider, the Theory of Everything, and possibly the Longevity Vaccine. A higher priority than those SPs, however, is the Cyborg Factory -- the one thing that can put our land soldiers on an even footing with those of the Hive.

To change the subject slightly, I don't think that the other factions have been colluding with one another. The one faction that has now eclipsed the others is the Hive. How do I think they have done this? Their Police State allows them to maintain much larger populations in each base, effectively doubling or tripling thier production. Furthermore, we're likely not the only faction who's thought to take advantage of crawler upgrades -- the Hive has likely saved their energy for such things. And one last thing -- it's likely that they have the commlink of the CyCon. I can't think of anything else that would speed their research so quickly.

We still have a chance to eclipse the others. Our technology is our greatest weapon. It is undoubtedly the reason why the Pirates wish to Pact with us --because they know we can quickly get to Gene Splicing, which they need to expand their bases. The point is that we stand to gain significantly in the long term. Let's parlay that advantage into a strategy that will seize the Virtual World from the Hive and assure our dominance.

Without the VW, we'll be heavily dependent on Psych for a while as our population expands -- so Green and Planned are out of the question, until we decide to go on the offensive. If we can get the Longevity Vaccine, though, it will help with our drone problems under Green or Planned in lieu of the extra Psych energy.

Possibly this assessment is flawed, and our best chance is to continue to pursue our Builder strategy. Or perhaps it is our best chance. Please post your thoughts.

[Minute Mirage]

A few points concerning Adam's post:

The Merchant Exchange is currently being built by the Angels in three bases and it was just started by the Drones as well. It could well be that the Drones or the Angels could finish the ME before our next turn. Do we want to take the risk and sacrifice six crawlers?

Concerning our research goals, remember what Hercules said:

Btw is Gene Splicing the tech you are currently researching. If so there might be the prospect of future trades. If not we would be interested in what you are researching with a view to co-ordinating research programmes or exchange.

If we sign a pact with the Pirates, should we co-ordinate our research? If yes, what techs should we focus on and what would we leave to the pirates? We have to make the choice of our next tech fairly quickly, because Gene Splicing will be discovered in two turns. As a matter of fact, if we change our sliders from 50/0/50 to 40% economy and 60% tech, we will get Gene Splicing next turn, at the cost of 9 ECs.

[Archaic]

With the Hive getting like this, it seems perhaps we should take a more forward stance on the diplo with the Pirates. They need us as much as we need them. The more desperate we make them feel, the more we'll get out of them.

Tell them that we know they have the Cyborg commlink, and we request that they give it to us at once so that all three of our factions can co-ordinate an alliance against the Hive. The rapid speed they are getting these at suggests either intervention by the GG to give the rest of us a challenge (I already know for certain that the Cyborgs and Pirates already suspect the Hive of some form of cheating anyway, and have for a long time), or very poor diplo decisions on the part of whoever's been giving the Hive all their tech.

Even if it was poor diplo decisions though, that the Hive could pump crawlers so quickly as to get all these projects is simply mind boggling. I can't even replicate that with an advantageous starting position in playtest. I'd love to know how they're managing it.

[Minute Mirage]

Who's playing the turn? We're past the 48 hour limit once again.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Archaic
I'd love to know how they're managing it.

Comrade Kody is one heck of a micromanager. I've been in games with Vel and with big_canuck, and believe me, Kody leaves them in his wake.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no cheating involved - and I haven't given the Hive any advantage over any other faction

And running Planned, Wealth gives the Hive a +3 Industry. That means six unimproved crawlers plus 40* ec's can instabuild a 200 cost SP such as the HGP or the CN. Eight plus 60* ec's instabuilds a 300-cost SP such as the PTS or the VW (and a crawler normally costs 30 minerals, but with +3 Industry it's cost becomes only 21)

(*reduced by the minerals being produced that turn in the base building the SP)

G.

[Mr. President]

Originally posted by Archaic


Tell them that we know they have the Cyborg commlink, and we request that they give it to us at once so that all three of our factions can co-ordinate an alliance against the Hive. The rapid speed they are getting these at suggests either intervention by the GG to give the rest of us a challenge (I already know for certain that the Cyborgs and Pirates already suspect the Hive of some form of cheating anyway, and have for a long time), or very poor diplo decisions on the part of whoever's been giving the Hive all their tech.

I'm on it, boss.

[GeneralTacticus]

*SIGH* This is what I get for eternally hoping Archaic will play the turn for a change. Turn played, report to follow shortly.

[GeneralTacticus]

MM's suggestions followed as usual, although an extra six credits were spent rushing the Zoloto-Gold Rec Commons, just to be sure (IIRC, buying at less than the full price doesn't prevent drone ritos from occurring next turn).

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
*SIGH* This is what I get for eternally hoping Archaic will play the turn for a change. Turn played, report to follow shortly.

Perhaps you should decide beforehand who's going to play which turn. We don't want to exceed the 48 hour limit constantly.

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
MM's suggestions followed as usual, although an extra six credits were spent rushing the Zoloto-Gold Rec Commons, just to be sure (IIRC, buying at less than the full price doesn't prevent drone ritos from occurring next turn).

If I'm not mistaken, the Recreation Commons would have completed before drone riots had a chance of occuring, since the base was not in a drone riot to begin with. There was certainly no harm in spending a few extra credits, though.

Btw, did you change the sliders from 50/0/50 to 40/0/60 or did you leave them as they were? In any case, we will be getting Gene Splicing soon and must decide on our next tech to be reserched.

[GeneralTacticus]

Originally posted by Minute Mirage


Perhaps you should decide beforehand who's going to play which turn. We don't want to exceed the 48 hour limit constantly.

Yes, we should - that, and/or or you could be our third turnplayer as I suggested before.

Btw, did you change the sliders from 50/0/50 to 40/0/60 or did you leave them as they were? In any case, we will be getting Gene Splicing soon and must decide on our next tech to be reserched.

I left them as they were. What techs would be available to research?

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


Yes, we should - that, and/or or you could be our third turnplayer as I suggested before.

I can lend a hand if needed, but that means I can't load the save until I know who's playing the turn. Would it be possible for you and Archaic to post here and announce who's playing the turn as soon as you figure it out? We could also have an additional time limit like 36 hours, after which I would play the turn if I hadn't heard anything from you.

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
I left them as they were. What techs would be available to research?

Assuming we haven't gotten Doctrine:Flexibility by the time we pick the next tech, the techs we have the prerequisites for are the following:

Doctrine: Flexibility
Centauri Empathy
Ecological Engineering
Progenitor Psych
Polymorphic Software
Applied Physics
Doctrine: Loyalty
Neural Grafting

If my calculations, based on our last choices are correct, we should have all the techs as available choices.

If we receive Doctrine:Flexibility before our next choice, our tech choices should look like this:

Doctrine: Initiative
Ecological Engineering
Progenitor Psych
Applied Physics.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Googlie
Comrade Kody is one heck of a micromanager. I've been in games with Vel and with big_canuck, and believe me, Kody leaves them in his wake.

Would you have any copies of saves from those games? The best I've been able to emulate has come from using Sikander style strategies, and obviously, they're quite lacking in comparison. I'd love to see what I'm up against, and maybe borrow a bit from his strategies. Up to this point, I thought I was quite good, but now I feel quite humbled.

Originally posted by Googlie
And running Planned, Wealth gives the Hive a +3 Industry. That means six unimproved crawlers plus 40* ec's can instabuild a 200 cost SP such as the HGP or the CN. Eight plus 60* ec's instabuilds a 300-cost SP such as the PTS or the VW (and a crawler normally costs 30 minerals, but with +3 Industry it's cost becomes only 21)

True. But when they're having to build that many crawlers.....it just boggles me. I simply can't match that.
Wait. They wouldn't be doing Industry Switches would they? Build the crawlers, change out of Planned & Wealth, slot them into the project, change back to Planned and Wealth next turn. That's about the only way I can manage to get that many projects done so quickly with the playtests I tried earlier.



Sorry for not playing the turn GT. I saw the notification for it on the weekend, while I was unfortunatly without my copy of AC, and after you didn't contact me, I assume you must've been playing the turn already. I'll take charge of the next one.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by Archaic


True. But when they're having to build that many crawlers.....it just boggles me. I simply can't match that.

Have you tried rush building crawlers or do you upgrade them? I've found that rushing the crawlers is very effective, more so than upgrading especially if you have a high industry rating, like the Hive do.

[Archaic]

In the playtest, I was only rushing. I don't tend to do upgrades until the mid to late game, when my commerce income starts coming in.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by Archaic
In the playtest, I was only rushing. I don't tend to do upgrades until the mid to late game, when my commerce income starts coming in.

I suppose you took into account the better-than-average starting conditions, i.e. everyone probably started with a rocky mineral bonus? Anyway, can we assume that the Hive have received tech trades from someone? If yes, the trader has probably been the Cyborgs. I doubt their intention was to lose all the SPs to the Hive though, especially considering that they started the VW, but the Hive snagged it.

[Archaic]

Yes, I took it into account. I had three Rocky/Minerals in the playtest, as well as Monoliths for each of the bases I planted.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by Archaic
Yes, I took it into account. I had three Rocky/Minerals in the playtest, as well as Monoliths for each of the bases I planted.

Do you actually still have a save of the scenario you tested? I'd like to try what's the best I can come up with.

[Archaic]

No, I don't sorry. I just cleaned out my HDD the other night, and I didn't figure I'd be needing it again.

[Minute Mirage]

Originally posted by Archaic
No, I don't sorry. I just cleaned out my HDD the other night, and I didn't figure I'd be needing it again.

That's OK, it's not a big loss.


Anyway, how are the diplomatic negotiations proceeding with the pirates? We have received an in-game offer from them where they offer a pact and Doctrine: Flexibility.

[Mr. President]

I sent them a message as Archaic specified a couple of posts above, but I didn't get a response.