Romanian ex-spy accuses the Russians of assisting to hide Iraqi WMD

[Defiant]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
[Q] [SIZE=1]
I doubt you are reading history books at all, actually. Yes, the left-leaning government of Afganistan asked for help in 1979 because of an uprising by feudo-clearical reactionaries who were opposed to the freedoms being enacted for women. An uprising which was then funded by the US, about six months before the USSR came in.

Did the cry for help include and invasion force and thousands upon thousands of deaths and refugees. Some help. I think you need to begin the assimilation of the information you are reading with a clear mind not a biased one.

Quote:

America's aggression, are you including Germany twice, Japan and Italy? Also when we won France back for the people of France?

What part of "1945 - 1991" don't you understand?

Hey Genius, when did WWII end?

[Whaleboy]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Quote:

Poland Iraq attacked the USSR Kuwait in 1919 1991, and in 1939 2003 the USSR was merely reclaiming what they had lost to PolandSaddam in 19201991.

How does that change the fact that it was an aggressive and unprovoked war?

EDIT: (Something to say) DD has seen the light!

[Nubclear]

Ya know, I just got this really strange list and I have no idea what its about. Can any of the more knowledgeable people on the board please explain it to me?

Nicaragua, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Viet Nam, Cambodia, Laos, Somalia, Iran, Yugoslavia, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Panama, Honduras, China, Sudan, Libya, Venezuela, Indonesia, Chile, Soviet Union, Greece, Phillipines, Albania (Unsuccessful), East Germany, Syria (Unsuccessful), DR Congo, Brazil, East Timor, El Salvador, Haiti.

[Defiant]

When exactly did the United States get the 51st star called Kuwait????? And better yet, when do they start paying taxes to our fed gov't???????????

[Whaleboy]

Tass:

[DinoDoc]

Could you not quote me if you aren't going to say anything at all, elijah? It needlessly clutters the thread.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Defiant
Hey Genius, when did WWII end?

Italy was invaded in 1943.
France was liberated in 1944.
Germany was "attacked" by the U.S. in 1942 in Africa.
The US started its offensive against Japan in 1942.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Italy was invaded in 1943.
France was liberated in 1944.
Germany was "attacked" by the U.S. in 1942 in Africa.
The US started its offensive against Japan in 1942.

[JCG]

Aren't the WMDs supposed to be in Lebanon now, according to the latest rumor?

Both that and the article in this thread can't be right at the same time...or not?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by JCG
Aren't the WMDs supposed to be in Lebanon now, according to the latest rumor?

Syria, actually.

[JCG]

Oh well, for all the difference that makes, these days at least.....

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by JCG
Oh well, for all the difference that makes, these days at least.....

Hey, it makes a big difference!!!! It'll take US children another 60 minutes of map-looking to try to find it!

[Serb]

Originally posted by Defiant


Are you kidding me? AFGHANISTAN, POLAND, CZECH, HELL THE WHOLE BALKANS, UKRAINE.
Did you ever hear the term satellite nations, you should USSR invented it. The US doesn't even hold a candle to past Russian wars of aggression.

Afghanistan- Che already explained this.
Poland, CZECH, HELL (when the hel we did invaded hell?), THE WHOLE BALKANS (what whole Balkans?)- we were fighting against nazi, while you were seating on your well exercised as$. What the hell do you suggest, that Soviets should've stop on their former frontier and let nazis to recover?

UKRAINE- free willingly joined Russia in 1654, not to mention that we were one state 1000 years ago.

Now compare it with Tass list of America's agressions.

[Bereta_Eder]

SERB! HOW YOU 'VE BEEN? CHEERS MAN

[Serb]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Liar.

BAM.

[Serb]

Originally posted by paiktis22
SERB! HOW YOU 'VE BEEN? CHEERS MAN

I'm fine, thanks.
I've spamed enough to get prince status. Another couple of years and I might get an avatar.

[Bereta_Eder]

give them hell, they're clowns
useful for amusement on a slow day

[Nubclear]

Serb: I've noticed many republicans on the board still have not addressed my list....

[Odin]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Serb: I've noticed many republicans on the board still have not addressed my list....

Where do you think the chicken in chickenhawk comes from?

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
AND I AM NOT AMERICAN!!!

In Serb's mind anyone who he doesn't like is an American.

[Drake Tungsten]

Serb: I've noticed many republicans on the board still have not addressed my list....

Well, your list does include East Timor, which may be why some people aren't taking it seriously.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Oerdin


In Serb's mind anyone who he doesn't like is an American.

So, in accordance with your logic you are not American?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Quote:

Serb: I've noticed many republicans on the board still have not addressed my list....

Well, your list does include East Timor, which may be why some people aren't taking it seriously.

The United States gave weapons and ammo to Indonesia when it was annexing East Timor which resulted in the death of thousands of E. Timorians.
But why let facts stand in the way of jingoism? Chickenhawk indeed
And thats hardly a reason to dismiss the entire list, even if I am wrong

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man


please don't insinuate that i am an american.

so i forgot that jurdistan was in the way, sue me


AND I AM NOT AMERICAN!!!

Don't worry about it -- Serb sees Americans everywhere.

[Serb]

I'm not that paranoid as sergant Scott from "Universal soldier".

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Serb

BAM.

No. Historical fact.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

The United States gave weapons and ammo to Indonesia when it was annexing East Timor which resulted in the death of thousands of E. Timorians.

Link? I seem to recall reading about the US refusing to recognize the annexation and protesting. Further the US backed Australia when Australia said it would go to war with Indonesia if they attempted their threatened invasion of Papua New Gunea shortly after.

Tass, you can blame the US for something another country does (in this case Indonesia) especially since the two countries have had a very rocky relationship for 35 years. Do you recall how the Indonesias paid for a dozen F-15 about 15 years ago but how Congress has refused to export them to Indonesia due to their poor human rights record? Everyone's ignoring your list because of things like this. We're not taking it seriously.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

The Soviets were invited in to Afganistan, so it doesn't count as an invasion.

Some of Iraqi opposition were very pleased to see someone enter Iraq as well.

The Ukraine doesn't count, either, as it was never a recognized country by anyone except, for a brief time, the Bolsheviks, before the Germans took it over.

It was partially recognised by Poland
And no-one recognised Soviets in this time.

Poland attacked the USSR in 1919, and in 1939 the USSR was merely reclaiming what they had lost to Poland in 1920.

What do You mean by "lost"? Did they own it before?
And it was USSR to provoke the war

[Nubclear]

Link?

No: Links. Silly Oerdin

http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/...indo101001.htm

The Invasion of East Timor

In December 1975, Indonesia invaded the new nation of East Timor, which had just declared itself independent from Portuguese colonizers. Within five years, more than 200,000 people, one-third of the pre-invasion population, had been killed, leading Noam Chomsky to term it "the worst slaughter relative to population since the Holocaust."[2] The invasion took place just hours after U.S. President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger visited General Suharto in the Indonesian capital of Jakarta. While the international community protested, the U.S. government doubled military aid to Indonesia and prevented the United Nations from taking effective action against Suharto.[3]

In 1977, reacting to public pressure, Congress held hearings to investigate the U.S. role in Indonesia’s military action against its tiny neighbor. The House International Relations Committee revealed that several major U.S. weapons systems sold to Jakarta during this period-- including sixteen Rockwell OV-10 "Bronco" counter-insurgency aircraft, three Lockheed Martin C-130 transport aircraft and thirty-six Cadillac-Gage V-150 "Commando" armored cars-- were used against East Timor. Other U.S. weapons linked to the occupation, and referenced during the hearing, included: S-61 helicopters, patrol craft, M-16 rifles, pistols, mortars, machine guns, recoilless rifles, ammunition, and communications equipment.[4]

From 1975 through East Timor’s referendum for independence in 1999, the United States continued its military support, transferring over a billion dollars worth of weaponry. Everything from F-16 fighter planes to military helicopters to M-16 combat rifles was used in the suppression of dissent in East Timor and throughout Indonesia. These weapons were viewed as key to maintaining good relationships with Washington’s strategic ally. The State Department and White House portrayed Indonesia as a bulwark against communism, a source of cheap labor and cheap resources, and a market for U.S. goods. One State Department official summed up the relationship by saying, "the United States wants to keep its relations with Indonesia close and friendly. It is a nation we do a lot of business with."[5] Indeed, the president of Coca-Cola went so far as to exclaim, "When I think of Indonesia-- a country on the equator with 180 million people, a median age of 18 and a Muslim ban on alcohol-- I feel like I know what heaven looks like."[6]

While this relationship was heaven for Coca-Cola executives, it was closer to hell for the Indonesian people. Human rights violations such as arbitrary arrests, extrajudicial killings, torture, as well as restrictions on freedoms of speech, press, assembly, and association were the norm. By way of endorsement, U.S. weapons, military training and support flowed in.

The Indonesian military still bristles with U.S. origin weapons and benefits from U.S. military training. The United States transferred $328 million in weapons and spare parts and almost $100 million in commercial weapons exports to the Jakarta regime in the last decade.[7] Military training has also been significant during this period-- the Defense Department allocated more than $7.5 million in International Military Education and Training program (IMET) funding for Indonesian soldiers. Soldiers armed with U.S. weapons and training went on to maim, kill and torture.[8]

Indeed, Washington has been forced to break off military relations with Jakarta because of the military’s abuse of power, violations of human rights, massacres, and extrajudicial killings. In 1991, military ties were suspended following the Santa Cruz Massacre in which Indonesian security officers fired into a peaceful crowd of protestors, killing 271 people. The relationship was partially restored in 1995, only to be severed again after the brutal military and militia response to the 1999 Timorese referendum for independence. See pages 4-5 for an in-depth look at how military aid was curbed step by step.

http://www.etan.org/news/2001a/10wpi.htm which refrences to the above.

Major Findings:

The legacy of U.S. support for the 32-year dictatorship of General Suharto, which included over a billion dollars worth of U.S. weaponry, cannot be ignored. F-16 fighter planes, attack helicopters, M-16 combat rifles and other U.S. origin weapons were used in the suppression of dissent in East Timor and throughout Indonesia.
The Indonesian military still bristles with U.S. origin weapons and benefits from U.S. military training. In the last ten years, the Pentagon exported $328 million in weapons and spare parts to Jakarta.
During the same ten-year period, military training has also been significant -- the Pentagon has spent more than $7.5 million on military training for Indonesian soldiers through the International Military Education and Training program (IMET). The Bush administration's budget request for FY2002 includes $400,000 for IMET training; twice the level that was set aside for FY2001.
While the newly independent nation of East Timor is on the road to recovery, human rights abuses are still rampant in the provinces of Aceh and Irian Jaya and are supported by U.S. weapons and military training. These mineral-rich provinces have legitimate grievances against the central government and share a history marked by colonization and exploitation. Jakarta has responded to calls for autonomy with brutal repression.
U.S. corporations-particularly Exxon Mobil in Aceh and Freeport McMoRan in Irian Jaya-have developed synergistic relations with the Indonesian military. Monies paid to the military to protect the corporation's investments in the war torn provinces are funneled into military operations. Thus the military has strong incentives for prolonging and exacerbating conflict in Aceh and Irian Jaya.

http://www.indonesianetwork.org/stat...us_weapons.htm

Similar terror tactics, along with U.S. weapons, were used in the subjugation of the East Timorese people during Indonesia¹s 24-year occupation of that former Portuguese territory. The U.S. cut off all arms sales to Indonesia in 1999, after the TNI and its militia proxies razed East Timor and drove hundreds of thousands of civilians from their homes following the country¹s vote for independence from Indonesia.

http://www.cdi.org/friendlyversion/p...documentID=682

The United States has long supported Indonesia's military and political regimes. In fact, the U.S. has been a major arms supplier to Indonesia for several decades. According to data compiled by the World Policy Institute, the U.S. government has approved over $1 billion in U.S. arm sales to Indonesia since 1975, the year Indonesia illegally occupied East Timor. U.S. weapon sales to Indonesia range from the small and insidious M-16 to as large and powerful as F-16 fighter aircraft.

http://www.motherjones.com/east_timo...res/usaid.html

http://www.clw.org/atop/restrictions_ddi092101.html

http://www.jointhebushwhackers.com/I...iaOutrrage.pdf Great source, dont you think?

http://www.fair.org/activism/east-timor-context.html

http://web.amnesty.org/web%5Cweb.nsf...ages/ttt3_arms

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/indonesia.htm

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/1999/...209091999.html

http://www.amnestyusa.org/rightsforall/arms.html

I'm tired of finding links now. You can do it on your own if you want more.

[Nubclear]

And yet again, how can one dismiss the entire list EVEN if I am wrong (Though the 12 links I found seem to suggest I'm right)?
Do you mean to say the US NEVER overthrew the Chilean democracy, or that the invasion of Panama...Never even happend? Looks like your trying to do a red herring....And it's a very poor one at that