N. Korea Says It Has, Plans to Test Nukes

[SlowwHand]

7 minutes ago
By GEORGE GEDDA, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - North Korea (news - web sites) startled a six-nation conference on East Asian security by announcing its intentions to formally declare its possession of nuclear weapons and to carry out a nuclear test, a Bush administration official said Thursday.

North Korean Deputy Foreign Minister Kim Yong Il also told the gathering in Beijing that his country has the means to deliver nuclear weapons, an apparent reference to the North's highly developed missile program, the official said.

The comments cast a pall over Thursday's plenary session, which included representatives of the United States, South Korea (news - web sites), China, Japan and Russia, in addition to North Korea, raising questions about the success of negotiations scheduled to conclude Friday morning.

Nevertheless, the diplomats agreed on the need to hold more such talks and probably will, a South Korean official said.

James Kelly, the chief U.S. delegate, demanded at the talks that North Korea engage in the verifiable and permanent dismantling of its nuclear weapons programs, in return for which the United States would provide security guarantees and economic benefits to the impoverished nation, said the U.S. administration official, asking not to be identified.

The U.S. official said that when Russia and Japan attempted to point out some positive elements of the U.S. presentation, the North Korean delegate attacked them by name and said they were lying at the instruction of the United States. According to the administration official, China's delegate appeared visibly angry over Kim's statement but responded in a moderate tone.

Kim said his country was taking its position because the United States clearly had no intention of abandoning its hostile policy toward North Korea, the U.S. official said.

U.S. intelligence has not detected overt signs that North Korea is preparing to conduct a nuclear weapons test, said one U.S. defense official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. But such a test would presumably be underground, so preparatory work would be difficult to detect, the official said.

The United States has long believed that North Korea has at least one or two nuclear weapons and could have five or six within a matter of months.

The United States, North and South Korea, Russia, Japan and China are trying to balance U.S. demands for an end to North Korea's nuclear program and the communist nation's insistence on a nonaggression treaty with Washington and humanitarian aid.

"There is a consensus that the process of six-party talks should continue and is useful," said Wie Sung-rak, director-general of the South Korean Foreign Ministry's North American Affairs Bureau. Like other delegates from the talks, he chose his words carefully to avoid suggesting a formal agreement had been made.

Asked to verify a Russian media report that all six would meet again within two months, he said, "It's possible, but you have to wait until tomorrow morning."

Russian Alexander Losyukov, the deputy foreign minister and the head of Russia's delegation, earlier had said the six reached a "common understanding" to meet again within the next two months, probably in Beijing, the ITAR-Tass news agency reported.

In the past, U.S. officials have noted that if North Korea conducted a nuclear weapons test, it would sacrifice a substantial part of its stockpile of weapons-grade plutonium, possibly halving its inventory from two weapons to one. However, Pyongyang had appeared to make moves aimed at restarting its plutonium-production line.

Nuclear weapons can be made from either plutonium or uranium.

The U.S. administration official said Kim denied Thursday that the North has been developing a uranium-based nuclear weapon. The Bush administration has said that North Korea acknowledged such a program during talks in Pyongyang in October 2002.

Chief among the Bush administration's concerns is that a nuclear-armed North Korea would be able to export nuclear weapons or technology or would touch off an arms race in Northeast Asia.




In the face of U.S. demands that North Korea permit the verification of any commitment to disarm, Kim rejected inspections of any kind, the U.S. official said.

The official added that North Korea's presentation at Thursday's session essentially reaffirmed what a Pyongyang delegate had told Kelly privately during a three-way meeting last April in Beijing. At the time, Kelly was told that North Korea not only possessed nuclear weapons — a first-time disclosure — but also was prepared to test or to transfer them.

In a separate meeting after Thursday's talks adjourned, Japan urged North Korea to let the children of five Japanese citizens kidnapped and spirited to North Korea years ago join their parents, who were permitted last year to return to their homeland. North Korea, however, reiterated its assertion that Japan had broken a promise by not returning the five abductees to Pyongyang, according to a statement by the Japanese government.

[chequita guevara]

BOOM!

[MOBIUS]

Yeah well if the ***** in the US govt had decide to go after the real WMD threat of NK and not the pretend ones of Iraq, perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess...

So, is the US going to do something before NK has the range to hit the US, cos I believe they're testing rockets with that sort of range right now - they might even make some improvements to LA...

The ultimate irony in all this is that it appears that if you actually DO have WMD, the US is too chickensh*t to do anything about it.

*Note to Saddam*

Next time, actually HAVE some WMD...!

[SlowwHand]

Very likely.

[Provost Harrison]

Congratulations Sloww, you have won todays award for 'most random punctuation in a thread title'

[MOBIUS]

Jeez, you can't even use t wats - what is this site becoming...

[yavoon]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Yeah well if the ***** in the US govt had decide to go after the real WMD threat of NK and not the pretend ones of Iraq, perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess...

So, is the US going to do something before NK has the range to hit the US, cos I believe they're testing rockets with that sort of range right now - they might even make some improvements to LA...

The ultimate irony in all this is that it appears that if you actually DO have WMD, the US is too chickensh*t to do anything about it.

*Note to Saddam*

Next time, actually HAVE some WMD...!

I remember europe being fairly free during the whole iraq thing. perhaps they would have wanted to go in? no? thats wut I thot.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Congratulations Sloww, you have won todays award for 'most random punctuation in a thread title'

I can't take the credit.
Strictly a cut and paste job.


And Mobius, it still wasn't primarily over WMD.
Repeating it doesn't make it so.

Anyways, can I put a dollar into the pot for a date NK gets *****slapped?

[Evil Knevil]

How could such a small, bankrupt nation afford nuclear weapons and rockets?

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Evil Knevil
How could such a small, bankrupt nation afford nuclear weapons and rockets?

At the expense of starving their people.


This is excessively bad news. Eventual war looks fairly likely now. This one will be a bad one.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by PLATO
Eventual war looks fairly likely now. This one will be a bad one.

What? I highly doubt were EVER going to war with North Korea, not unless we want a major economic collapse. I mean, the mere mention of a nuclear weapon being used is enough to make the economy PLUNGE....
It's too late to deal with North Korea. We cannot afford a nuclear war in Southeast Asia. ESPECIALLY considering they are testing missiles that may be able to hit the US with a nuclear payload.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


What? I highly doubt were EVER going to war with North Korea, not unless we want a major economic collapse. I mean, the mere mention of a nuclear weapon being used is enough to make the economy PLUNGE....
It's too late to deal with North Korea. We cannot afford a nuclear war in Southeast Asia. ESPECIALLY considering they are testing missiles that may be able to hit the US with a nuclear payload.

Comrade, I wasn't refering to us starting it.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by PLATO


Comrade, I wasn't refering to us starting it.

Do you really think North Korea would start it? If they were to start a nuclear war, they do know they would probably be nuked back to hell?

[JCG]

This is very, very bad news...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by PLATO
Comrade, I wasn't refering to us starting it.

When is the last time someone started a war with us?

. . . course, it was the DPRK, wasn't it.

Look, the lesson of Iraq is, you need a deterent. Bush has hand;ed this mess terribly.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


Do you really think North Korea would start it? If they were to start a nuclear war, they do know they would probably be nuked back to hell?

I can think of a couple of scenarios where they would start a war and try to use a nuclear threat to keep us out of it. The bottom line is that the DPRK is starving. They must do something to try to stave off the daily imminence of economic collapse. They have obviously chosen a militaristic and confrontational policy. I believe that hey are putting themselves into a position where it will eithier be the collapse of the regime or war. I don't think Kim will go willingly.

[chequita guevara]

If the DPRK starts it, they're on their own, and they know it. If they're attacked, they have a reasonable expectation of China's aid.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If the DPRK starts it, they're on their own, and they know it. If they're attacked, they have a reasonable expectation of China's aid.

Che, I'm not so sure you are correct about them being on their own. China historically attacks anybody when an attacking army approaches their boarder. Additionally, do you think that the Chinese want the ROK army right across the Yalu? I believe that it is impossible to predict what the Chinese would do in the event of war.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by PLATO


Che, I'm not so sure you are correct about them being on their own. China historically attacks anybody when an attacking army approaches their boarder. Additionally, do you think that the Chinese want the ROK army right across the Yalu? I believe that it is impossible to predict what the Chinese would do in the event of war.

However, China would not risk the economic collapse that would ensue if they were to help the DPRK after a nuclear attack. Let's face it: Here in America there would probably be HUGE public pressure to destroy the DPRK and anyone who helped them.
China is on the road to superpowerness and they know it. They won't screw that over for the DPRK.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by PLATO
I believe that it is impossible to predict what the Chinese would do in the event of war.

China doesn't want a war at all. It has too much to lose in terms of trade. That's why, unless the DPRK is attacked, I'm sure they're telling Kim that they won't back his ass.

China in 1951 was a revolutionary government. They were burning with righteous fire and a desire to show their internationalism and aid their communist brothers. Today they are Communist in little more than name. They act as if their future lies with the West and not with the international Communist movement.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


However, China would not risk the economic collapse that would ensue if they were to help the DPRK after a nuclear attack. Let's face it: Here in America there would probably be HUGE public pressure to destroy the DPRK and anyone who helped them.
China is on the road to superpowerness and they know it. They won't screw that over for the DPRK.

Possibly correct I'll admit. But, China also empasizes in their military training that they are preparing for a war with the US. Can they afford to have a large US garrison of nuclear equipped troops on their boarder? The Chinese have sacrificed economic ambitions for idealogical ones in the past. It is possible that they will do so again. Like I said...It is impossible to determine where they would land in a US-DPRK war.

[Gatekeeper]

Y'know, as much as I don't always agree with Bush, you can't pin this exclusively on him or his cronies. You can't pin it on Clinton. In fact, you can't blame the U.S. period for this development.

North Korea has shown for years and years that they were hellbent on acquiring nuclear weapons and, worse, perhaps proliferating them via missile technology trades to the likes of Iran and Pakistan. All those damnable agreements they signed — including the 1994 Framework Agreement — and then abrogated were just "tonics" to ease the rest of the world's fears about what they were attempting to do. All the flowery words were just that, flowery words.

Have fun with a new nuclear neighbor, South Korea, Japan and China. Have fun putting up with its blackmail. In the meantime, the U.S. needs to conduct a crash-course Manhattan Project style effort to research a missile defense system that will actually work, not this questionable "quasi-shield" we have now. If that means taxes go up, then, dammit, so be it.

You gotta be alive to pursue the American dream, after all.

Gatekeeper

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Y'know, as much as I don't always agree with Bush, you can't pin this exclusively on him or his cronies.

I don't, but he certainly excaserbated the situation.

[Nubclear]

No, I (of course) blame the US for this situation. North Korea only recently got these. In November, the CIA said it thinks NK will be a nuclear power by the beginning of the new year. But Bush did nothing. He woudl rather go after Iraq which had no nukes AT ALL and posted very little threat.
And now it is too late. Because of his inaction, and because he did not care, North Korea is in this position of power. And we can do nothing to stop it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Look, the lesson of Iraq is, you need a deterent.

No, that isn't. Every state knows the need for deterrance, and knows that nukes are the ultimate deterrent. Why do you think India and Pakistan made them? Not just to show they were 'powerful'.

And now it is too late. Because of his inaction, and because he did not care, North Korea is in this position of power. And we can do nothing to stop it.

I'd LOVE to see what the left would say if we declared war on North Korea, and they used nukes against us. Or, better yet, start WW3 when China comes in against us!

I guess it is damned if you do, damned if you don't .

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I guess it is damned if you do, damned if you don't .

Yep, now it is. Wasn't in Dec02 though But our leaders did not care.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wasn't in Dec02 though

Yeah sure... and India didn't have nukes until the late 90s

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Wasn't in Dec02 though

Yeah sure... and India didn't have nukes until the late 90s

This attempt to defend your precious leader is PITIFUL, Imran. You are more capable of trolling than this

[Imran Siddiqui]

The pitiful argument is that we could have 'done' something about North Korea in December of '02 .

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The pitiful argument is that we could have 'done' something about North Korea in December of '02 .

This is true. We should have done something about DPRK in December 02. We should have done something about DPRK in Dec 94 also. We probably should have done something about DPRK in Dec of just about any year.