September 3, 2003, 01:17
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#1
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Emperor
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Non-Alien Aliens
This actually got me thinking...if an extra-terrestrial were born in the United States, would it be a citizen?
Does it make a difference if it's "in the open" but hides the fact that it isn't human?
Does it make a difference if it just hides, period?
Can it even be called an extra-terrestrial or alien?
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"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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September 3, 2003, 01:31
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#2
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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One would presume this was not a question which troubled the Framers... 
No, they wouldn't be, any more than a horse or cat, because "person" is defined as a human being in US legal practice.
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Bush-Cheney 2008. What's another amendment between friends?
*******
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
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September 3, 2003, 01:41
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#3
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Emperor
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Now that's just sad. 
Wold they have any standing under the law?
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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September 3, 2003, 01:46
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#4
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
No, they wouldn't be, any more than a horse or cat, because "person" is defined as a human being in US legal practice.
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That didn't stop a tentacle from becoming president in the game Day of the Tentacle. Obviously one of you are wrong - who am I to believe. A mere mod on some strange website, or an actual computer game?  
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I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
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September 3, 2003, 02:12
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#5
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
One would presume this was not a question which troubled the Framers...
No, they wouldn't be, any more than a horse or cat, because "person" is defined as a human being in US legal practice.
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"person" is not strictly defined as human. and i'm sure if our benevolent alien overlords saw fit to live amoung us, we would rewrite the law (and most major religions) for them.
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"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
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September 3, 2003, 02:35
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#6
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Emperor
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Re: Non-Alien Aliens
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Quote:
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Originally posted by The Mad Monk
This actually got me thinking...if an extra-terrestrial were born in the United States, would it be a citizen?
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Depends how big his laser blasters are 
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Banana
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September 3, 2003, 03:23
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#7
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King
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Re: Non-Alien Aliens
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Quote:
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Originally posted by The Mad Monk
This actually got me thinking...if an extra-terrestrial were born in the United States, would it be a citizen?
Does it make a difference if it's "in the open" but hides the fact that it isn't human?
Does it make a difference if it just hides, period?
Can it even be called an extra-terrestrial or alien?
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Being Non-Human in the UA would be the best way to get you into a Lab (as Laboratory Alien).
Some Scientist or Military Person would claim, that Human Rights only apply to humans and then abuse your Body for medical Experiments.
Just like it happened to the others in Roswell and other Places
They´d never be Citizens of the USA (at least not until the Scientists have performed all Experiments they want onto the Species, or open diplomatic Contact is established with the Earth and the Planet where these Aliens come from)
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Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe which strives to produce bigger idiots. - software engineers' saying
So far, the Universe is winning.
- applications programmers' saying
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September 3, 2003, 03:28
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#8
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CTP1/2 GODDESS
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THE TROOTH IS OUT THERE!!!!
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September 3, 2003, 04:10
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#9
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King
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Wow. I thought I was the only one around here who read El Goonish Shive (well, it's more like that I never thought the possibility of other people here reading it)... 'tis a wonderful comic.
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September 3, 2003, 05:34
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#10
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Emperor
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I found it this weekend.
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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September 3, 2003, 07:25
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#11
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Wold they have any standing under the law?
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I don't think there's many regulations for lab animals.
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Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse
Do It Ourselves
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September 3, 2003, 09:07
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#12
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Prince
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If we encountered aliens and some of them had chosen to live with us (or we changed the intelligence level of dolphins or chimps and gave them our extelligence as well) then i'm pretty sure that laws would be changed in order for them to become fully legal citizens.
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September 3, 2003, 09:45
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#13
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by el freako
If we encountered aliens and some of them had chosen to live with us (or we changed the intelligence level of dolphins or chimps and gave them our extelligence as well) then i'm pretty sure that laws would be changed in order for them to become fully legal citizens.
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Only, if they aren´t needed as Lab Animals
__________________
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe which strives to produce bigger idiots. - software engineers' saying
So far, the Universe is winning.
- applications programmers' saying
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September 3, 2003, 10:15
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#14
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by el freako
If we encountered aliens and some of them had chosen to live with us (or we changed the intelligence level of dolphins or chimps and gave them our extelligence as well) then i'm pretty sure that laws would be changed in order for them to become fully legal citizens.
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extelligence?
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STFU and then GTFO!
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September 3, 2003, 13:17
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#15
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by el freako
If we encountered aliens and some of them had chosen to live with us (or we changed the intelligence level of dolphins or chimps and gave them our extelligence as well) then i'm pretty sure that laws would be changed in order for them to become fully legal citizens.
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In 1550, the controversy of Valladolid was held to decide whether Indians were human beings.
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Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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September 3, 2003, 13:41
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#16
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OTF Moderator
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huh??/
this is why my sex with a wookie thread was valid
would it be beastiality?
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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September 3, 2003, 14:28
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#17
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Emperor
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The week of strange coincidences just keeps on happening. Only the other day I was reading up on the old TV show/TV movies Alien Nation that involved a race called the Tectonese being stranded on Earth when their slave ship crashed near L.A. When the subtext of racism wasn't being thrown in your face, the series did deal a lot on how to intergrate a non-human intelligent species into American culture.
I think the solution was to grant them all American citizenship a la Cubans fleeing Cuba because a) they had no way to go home and b) if they went home they'd be re-enslaved.
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Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard Dawkins
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September 3, 2003, 15:55
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#18
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MrFun
extelligence?
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Extelligence, or collective intelligence to give it another name, is the ability (unique to humans as far as we know) to 'store' and 'process' some of their intelligence outside of the organism itself. The main repositories of extelligence are culture, civilization and the like.
When we say we are looking for intelligent 'aliens' we usually really mean extelligent aliens - dolphins are intelligent but not extelligent.
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September 3, 2003, 16:04
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#19
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Emperor
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All these assumes, of course, that we can even recognise alien sentience and intelligence. I mean, they could be really alien. Totally unfathomable and not just a bit strange with funny ears.
Who wants to explain the concept of individual rights to a race of, say, swarming insects that communicate via, oh, biological radio emmitters and have a system of collective intelligence that doesn't recognise the concept of an individual? Lefty? MtG?
When you teach the intelligent hydrogen cloud on how to get a driver's license, call me.
__________________
Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard Dawkins
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September 3, 2003, 18:02
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#20
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by el freako
Extelligence, or collective intelligence to give it another name, is the ability (unique to humans as far as we know) to 'store' and 'process' some of their intelligence outside of the organism itself. The main repositories of extelligence are culture, civilization and the like.
When we say we are looking for intelligent 'aliens' we usually really mean extelligent aliens - dolphins are intelligent but not extelligent.
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thanks for the info 
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STFU and then GTFO!
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September 3, 2003, 18:23
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#21
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Starchild
Who wants to explain the concept of individual rights to a race of, say, swarming insects that communicate via, oh, biological radio emmitters and have a system of collective intelligence that doesn't recognise the concept of an individual?
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I would at once assemble my Warfleets to exterminate them as soon as possible.
My wars against the Klackons have taught me this Lesson
__________________
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe which strives to produce bigger idiots. - software engineers' saying
So far, the Universe is winning.
- applications programmers' saying
Last edited by Proteus_MST; September 3, 2003 at 18:41.
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September 3, 2003, 18:44
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#22
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CTP1/2 GODDESS
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Joe's apartment could really use a cleaning.
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