September 3, 2003, 16:44
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#31
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Quote:
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I'll give you the Guardian, but not the Beeb. It's not our fault the truth favors the left. 
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come now, finding leftie bias in the Guardian would be too easy, it wouldnt be fun - the Beeb is so much more subtle. And of course the Guardian doesnt live on tax money, and doesnt have a reputation for noble objectivity. The Guardians entitled to be leftie - I got nothing against leftie or rightie media - let a thousand flowers bloom. When a corporation refuses to be accountable either to the marketplace, or the voters, and acts as a sovereign entity with the power to tax......
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September 3, 2003, 16:46
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#32
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
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This thread was created on the third of September.
The BBC article was last updated on the first of Setpember.
Take from that what you will.
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September 3, 2003, 16:47
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#33
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note on the same page
See also:
Afghanistan 'out of control'
10 Aug 03 | South Asia
Taleban 'aims to regain power'
28 Mar 03 | South Asia
Pakistan urges closer Afghan ties
22 Aug 03 | South Asia
Afghanistan's alienated Pashtuns
09 Aug 03 | South Asia
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 16:49
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#34
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
This thread was created on the third of September.
The BBC article was last updated on the first of Setpember.
Take from that what you will.
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I was too lazy to go looking as thoroughly as Hersh. Mea culpa. I didnt see it on the current south asia page, which has numerous past articles. Evidently they didnt see it as important enough to keep it there, despite other items on Afghanistan.
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 16:52
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#35
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Deity
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indeed there are no links to the article anywhere on the site - only way i could find it was by doing a search on afghanistan.
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 17:02
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#36
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Quote:
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Originally posted by lord of the mark
yup those battles. Glad to see the Beeb finally got it.
wonder where they get this though
"The hunt, which is in its seventh day, has so far reportedly led to the death of up to 90 Taleban fighters"
when AP quotes a named local official as saying 124 fighters. but i'll admit thats a quibble.
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pardon i thought you had posted a current update. The beebs article was a couple of days ago, so yes, it could have been additional deaths.
Of course that means that the Beeb is doing one article every 3 days, on what seems to be the most intense battle in Afganistan in over a year. And the article is pretty well hidden.
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 17:06
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#37
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Settler
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Well what looks like the oldest story on the SE asia page:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3199865.stm
Which is later than the other article. And it mentions the offensive in Zabul.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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September 3, 2003, 17:16
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#38
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Deity
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i saw it was about defence reforms  , and so i skipped it. As i suppose most readers did. That couldnt have been intentional, oh no. 
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 17:33
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#39
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Emperor
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Looks like someone's pet theory of a biased Beeb has blown up in their faces... 
Firstly the useless Beeb 'finally got it' by reporting it before AP...
Secondly the Beeb appears less erm, what was that word again...
Oh, biased than the American report which omitted the two dead and one wounded US soldiers...
Or even your biased thread title about '124 taliban killed', when only 37 have actually been confirmed by the US officials... 
Finally, as previously mentioned, Afghanistan is just not headline news and certainly not important in the UK so the fact that it is reported at all is a sign of the Beeb's quality - not a detraction from it. That the AP report is 'more current' is irrelevant considering that the reporting is less accurate and that despite being more recent, sheds no extra light on the battle - the BBC will update its report once something worthwhile happens next.
And it is not hard to find, you just have to know where to look... 
Sorry LotM, the only thing biased on this thread appear to be your posts...
Perhaps we should call you 'Lord of the Dark' instead in recognition of your apparently 'biased' attempts to discredit the BBC in an unwarranted smear campaign...
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"People would rather die than think, and most people do." - Bertrand Russell
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September 3, 2003, 17:40
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#40
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Deity
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actually AP has been reporting almost every day for a week. Even CNN managed to turn its attention from Kobe Bryant to report on it on Monday.
And AP has also covered the US losses in other stories. They didnt cover it here cause the losses were in another battle, in another province. Only 37 have been confirmed dead by US officials, but the local Afghan official says 124. If any number above 37 is inaccurate, why does the Beeb report 90?
and dont tell me its not headline news - think if the Afghan army had lost 124 people, or even 90, or even 37, and the Taliban had lost 5, it wouldnt have been headline news?
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 17:45
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#41
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Deity
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"Crucially, they have also fed support for a violent Taleban insurgency in the southeast of the country.
For the past week, American troops have been backing up an Afghan Government offensive against a large group of fighters in Zabul province. "
In other words they only mentioned the offensive in Zabul in order to tie it to alleged support for the Taleban resulting from pashtun discontent with the Kabul govt. Despite the fact that most of the fighters seem to come from Pakistan, and there is no clear evidence that the fight is due to local support.
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 17:50
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#42
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by lord of the mark
actually AP has been reporting almost every day for a week. Even CNN managed to turn its attention from Kobe Bryant to report on it on Monday.
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Quantity doesn't not necessarily make quality as we have seen...
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Quote:
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And AP has also covered the US losses in other stories. They didnt cover it here cause the losses were in another battle, in another province. Only 37 have been confirmed dead by US officials, but the local Afghan official says 124. If any number above 37 is inaccurate, why does the Beeb report 90?
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Aha - so it is OK to believe local Afghan sources then - so all those thousands of civilian casualties reported by local Afghans and denied by US officials were correct after all!
You can't have your cake and eat it, LotD...
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Quote:
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and dont tell me its not headline news - think if the Afghan army had lost 124 people, or even 90, or even 37, and the Taliban had lost 5, it wouldnt have been headline news?
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Yes, because that would have been seen as a major reverse and therefore highly newsworthy especially considering the US has decided to put rooting out the Taleban and Al-Qaeda on the back burner in favour of getting itself embroiled in a conflict of its own making in Iraq...
You still haven't mentioned that your initial attack on the Beeb has been exposed as completely unfounded and that you were blinded by your own biased and that you are sorry and won't do it again... 
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"People would rather die than think, and most people do." - Bertrand Russell
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September 3, 2003, 17:53
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#43
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MOBIUS
Aha - so it is OK to believe local Afghan sources then - so all those thousands of civilian casualties reported by local Afghans and denied by US officials were correct after all!
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AP didnt say they believed it, and neither did I. But a number from a local official would seem newsworthy, especially when most of the coalition troops on the ground were Afghans. And since the BBC had ALREADY used such a source ( or where else did their figure of 90 come from)
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 17:56
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#44
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MOBIUS
Yes, because that would have been seen as a major reverse and therefore highly newsworthy
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Why woud it be a major reverse, when, as the BBC has headlined, the Taleban is attempting to regain power, and afghanistan is "out of control". In that context a military victory by the Taleban is just what I would expect, and a military defeat by the Taleban would seem to be a major reverse.
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 17:58
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#45
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MOBIUS
You still haven't mentioned that your initial attack on the Beeb has been exposed as completely unfounded and that you were blinded by your own biased and that you are sorry and won't do it again...
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A. I didnt attack them - merely pointed out that they didnt cover what the AP did. It was pointed out that they DID cover an earlier stage of the battle - as the AP also did. I didnt find it on their site - and couldnt without a search - despite the fact that other, negative stories were easier to find.
I was not blinded. I sees what i sees.
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 18:03
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#46
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Deity
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interestingly, there article on improving conditions in Kandahar, which i linked to earlier, is no longer to be found while "afghans live in fear" is still linked to from another negative piece.
BBC DOES present good news on Afghanistan - just don't blink, or you'll miss it.
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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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September 3, 2003, 18:07
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#47
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by lord of the mark
AP didnt say they believed it, and neither did I. But a number from a local official would seem newsworthy, especially when most of the coalition troops on the ground were Afghans. And since the BBC had ALREADY used such a source ( or where else did their figure of 90 come from)
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Then why would you put '124 taliban killed' in your thread title if you didn't believe it...
What I am alluding to is the blind bias of believing uncorroborated death tolls when they have a positive spin and pouring scorn on any figures involving civilian deaths as the US did immediately after the war in Afghanistan.
Personally I am inclined to believe these independent local sources whether report dead taleban or civilians killed by US forces and allies - but that would mean that thousands more civilians died than the US are admitting to.
That is what I mean by you can't have your cake and eat it.
Which is it to be, because at the moment you seem only to be believing the figures that suit you - unless you freely accept that US forces were directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Afghan civilians...
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"People would rather die than think, and most people do." - Bertrand Russell
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September 3, 2003, 18:11
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#48
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by lord of the mark
Why woud it be a major reverse, when, as the BBC has headlined, the Taleban is attempting to regain power, and afghanistan is "out of control". In that context a military victory by the Taleban is just what I would expect, and a military defeat by the Taleban would seem to be a major reverse.
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Only because in your bias, you twist it as such...
Afghanistan is out of control because vast swathes of the country are lawless and under the nominal control of the taleban.
HOWEVER that does not mean that the Taleban can beat coalition forces in open battle - THAT would be an incredibly worrying development indeed! 
Sorry, your anti-BBC bias just doesn't hold up to scrutiny... 
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"People would rather die than think, and most people do." - Bertrand Russell
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September 3, 2003, 18:18
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#49
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by lord of the mark
interestingly, there article on improving conditions in Kandahar, which i linked to earlier, is no longer to be found while "afghans live in fear" is still linked to from another negative piece.
BBC DOES present good news on Afghanistan - just don't blink, or you'll miss it.
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One effortless search later...
Do you mean THIS ONE?
or THIS ONE?
here is another biased anti Afghanistan report by the BBC...
Jeez, what did the Beeb do to you for you to be so biased against them...
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"People would rather die than think, and most people do." - Bertrand Russell
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September 3, 2003, 18:24
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#50
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"People would rather die than think, and most people do." - Bertrand Russell
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September 3, 2003, 19:16
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#51
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Emperor
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Overall, I'm not going to hold the BBC accountable for their selective reporting, the US media does it on a grander scale.
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September 3, 2003, 20:10
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#52
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Emperor
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Quote:
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BBC ignored it naturally
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That's because it must not have happened. Since it isn't on the BBC, the NYT, etc., etc., and the only place showing it is AP (a news organization with right-wing bias obviously), naturally it couldn't have happened.
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-Bokonon
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September 3, 2003, 20:32
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#53
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sava
and Bush was willing to let them be if they gave up bin Laden...  the Northern Alliance ain't no picnic either...
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It is all about 911. Vengeance.
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September 3, 2003, 20:35
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#54
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Emperor
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An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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September 3, 2003, 20:38
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#55
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King
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Thank God America has all those Canine Companions.
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With such viral bias, you're opinion is thus rendered useless. -Shrapnel12, on my "bias" against the SS.
And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy!"
"Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I ****ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective." --Barack Obama
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September 3, 2003, 20:41
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#56
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sava
Overall, I'm not going to hold the BBC accountable for their selective reporting, the US media does it on a grander scale.
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US media isn't government funded.
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[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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September 3, 2003, 20:43
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#57
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Thank God America has all those Canine Companions.
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They seemed to be ignored by Shrub et al. When it comes to our leadership, it's the blind leading the blind.
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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September 3, 2003, 20:49
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#58
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King
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Well, make sure you vote for Nadar next election.
PLease, anything that splits the Opposition.
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With such viral bias, you're opinion is thus rendered useless. -Shrapnel12, on my "bias" against the SS.
And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy!"
"Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I ****ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective." --Barack Obama
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September 3, 2003, 20:54
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#59
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Emperor
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I live in Texas. There is no opposition.
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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September 3, 2003, 20:59
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#60
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ramo
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
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Tell it to the people jumping out of the 90th floor of the WTC.
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