Lorraine Cooperative Game Thread

[Velociryx]

Purpose

Similar to the Scotland thread, but with more public discourse and discussion....I'm moving through the Scotland one relatively quickly now, and will continue working on it to completion, but in this game, I'd like to go a good deal slower and really get some public debate and discussion going over the decisions we reach together.

I'll post the initial setup and situation when I get home, but for the time being, we'll keep it on the same settings as the Scotland game, hard, normal aggressiveness.

Lorraine has no historical events written for it, so in that regard, there may be less to discuss, but in terms of scope and direction, Lorraine could be huge. French and German culture gives her the two biggest, best cultures in the game (speaking in terms of number and value of the provinces she can get full value from)....Lorraine in control of every French/German province in Europe would simply be an unholy monster....of course, given that she has only one province to start, GETTING to that point will be somewhat difficult, but...I have faith that with a solid beginning (which I have already prepared...simply the best Lorraine start I've ever had), and the sound advice from the discussions that will (I hope!) take place here, we can turn this into something really special!

I'm also planning to do more of a "storytelling" type thing with this one....as I said, the first was a simple experiment....this one....this one, I have plans for....join me? Screenies and start info to be posted this evening!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

The Birth of a Lion

The best, most compelling stories often rise from the humblest of beginnings, and thus, the focus of a small backwater Duchy in Europe, in a world on the verge of vast, sweeping changes larger than any nation....more powerful and irresistable than any force imaginable.

All of the nations in Europe will be caught up in its current. Nations that have existed for centuries will wink out of existence when faced with the fury and power of these changes, and new empires will be born.

And this is the backdrop of history upon which we will strive to build an empire of our own....from the humblest of beginnings indeed....a tiny nation with little to recommend it, save for its superb blending of French and Germanic culture, and men of stout heart and conviction.

Will we create a nation that cannot resist the tides of change, and simply cease to be, or will we forge a lasting, enduring Empire of astounding strength and resiliency?

As I put pen to paper and write these words, I cannot rightly say....that chapter of our history has not yet been written, and it falls to each of us who choose to participate in the guiding of our nation, to help determine her ultimate fate.

What I give you then, is the beginning. The story of Lorraine's initial rise above that which she once was.

Where we go from here, is anyone's guess.....

-=Velociryx=-
Humble Servant of Lorraine's Ruling Council

[Velociryx]

Letter to Charles, the Dauphin of France

Great Cousin,

Long have we admired your struggle against your English oppressors. Your courage in that fight is both inspirational and courageous. I am writing to you this day, to pledge myself and the service of my lands and my stout-hearted men to the future of France. Quite simply, we wish to see France born. We wish to see France be. Free, independent, and not dictated to by a haughty and arrogant English dog of a man.

Having made this pledge, know that I expect nothing in return from you. This is a worthy and Noble fight, and one we stand ready to make with you....as peers fighting separately if we must, as faithful members of the French alliance if it pleases you. Either way, however, know that we intend to make your struggle our own.

With deep respect,
Charles II, of Lothrengen

And with the penning of that now famous letter, Lorraine's place in history was forever changed. A tiny Duchy pledging herself to the cause of France, without knowing, and apparently without caring whether or not the French accepted, or even wished for their aid. The Duke of the tiny Duchy apparently had it in his head to fight the English and their Burgundian allies alone if needs be, in order to prove his loyalty to the French cause. (centralization +1, as the Duke writes without consulting his Council of Lords)

On All Fool's Day, in the year of our Lord 1419, tiny Lorraine shocks the whole of the known world by declaring a war on behalf of France, against the English. English ally, the House of Burgundy promptly declares their support for their English Masters and vows to see personally to Lorraine's destruction.

For his part, the King of England, Henry the Fifth, is not amused, but our ruling lord and leige stands firm in his resolve. Lorraine will make this fight, and our Duke will see it through, or he will lose both his head and his lands.

[Velociryx]

Opening Gambit

It would be exquisite if we could claim that our ill-advised war against both England and Burgundy (arguably, the most powerful alliance the world knew in 1419) was a lesson in precision and strategic mastery and finnesse.

Alas, that would be a blatant lie, as a great many mistakes and miscalculations were made in the prosecution of this war, as you will soon discover, however....we fought with faith and heart and skill, and the firm belief in the rightness of our cause.

January 1419
In an attempt to standardize taxation in our singular province, a Tax Collecting Supervisor is appointed in the land to oversee all efforts to raise money for our Duke. This appointment is vastly expensive, and takes fully half our treasury, but it is a thing important to our long-term growth, and so it is done, despite the rumblings of our peasantry (who are never overly fond of such things).

Military maintenance to 100%, full minting of coin (1% inflation per year)

April - 1419
Our Duke issues a formal Declaration of War against England - Burgundy joins the English in their fight against us.

The "Army" of Lorraine is little more than a toy, but it is what we have to work with (9000 Infantry, and 1000 Horse).

These are divided, and the bulk of our forces are ordered to remain in Lorraine, while neighboring Comte is invaded by a force of 2,000 of our infantry.

Shortly after arriving, this force encounters some 1300 Burgundian cavalry that have been routed by France and her allies out of Burgogne, and Lorraine gives these forces battle, killing some 100 enemy horse troops with no losses of their own, and driving them into the French province of Lyonnais. Thus, Lorraine wins her first military victory against her much larger neighbor on April 19th, 1419.

A personal gift is sent to the Dauphin of France, a fine tapestry bearing the Dauphin's likeness and crafted by our own artisans. (relations with France rise to +126)

July 28th
A massive force from Provence, more than 19,000 strong arrives in Comte to assist us with our siege operations there.

August 1
Although we are not formal members of the proud French alliance, we share a common foe, and so diplomats spend time riding between our capitol of Nancy and Ile de France, in an effort to secure French permission to march our soldiery through their lands, and in August, this permission is duly granted! We now have the means at our disposal to prosecute this war to the best of our abilities!

Having been granted this boon by the Dauphin of France, the balance of our army, 7000 Infantry and 1000 Horse marches to Champagne.

August 13th, France and England sign a peace treaty, with England paying 52d to the French in Indemnities. For our part, we raise War Taxes (which again, is a thing that does not make our peasantry happy, stab drops one point), and begin training 2,000 new infantry recruits in Lorraine. With French peace, the Army of Provence in Compte, moves off, denying us the help they had pledged....

September
French peace with the English and Burgundians has complicated matters for us greatly. Our 2k garrison in Compte invades Bourgogne to lock the Burgundian capitol down and prevent recruitment from occuring there, meanwhile, attrition has taken its toll on our main army in Champagne (large numbers of French troops passing through), and leaves our main force at 6400/880....these raid into Burgundian-held Artois.

OoO

Colonel Jaeger looked out over the city of Arras from his command tent in disgust. They had more then enough men to lock down this singular province (Artois), yes, and even lay in a siege here, but looking northward, he envisioned the rest of the countryside...all the vastness of the lands north of his position firmly under Burgundian control. He had been given an impossible task, and he knew it full well.

"How in the name of all the saints and angels does our Duke expect me to conquer the bulk of the low countries with this force?"

His aides had no ready answers for him....nor did he expect any. He was the commanding officer. The decison was his to make, and the future of Lorraine rested firmly on those decisions.

"Any word from our southern flank? I have no wish to press further north if we are exposed to possible incursions from Comte and Burgogne."

For that, the aides did have an answer. "Yes milord! Your cousin, Erich has led a force of some two thousand infantry into Burgogne to keep the ruling Lord occupied, and has requested an additional three thousand infantry to assist in that cause, and prevent Compte from being troublesome."

Jaeger nodded. "Well and good, and he has my blessings...I know he needs more men for his task as well, and that I hold the bulk of Lorraine's army, but God's Teeth, we do not have enough men to perform the task which has been demanded of us!"

Nonetheless, the men awaited his command.

He sighed heavily. "Send riders to Lorraine and tell them that Arras, and in fact, all of Artois is under guard and we are advancing on Flandres where a small train of enemy soldiers lays in wait....we humbly request any additional forces that can be raised....if we are to win this fight, then all efforts must be made to secure the north....the southern flank needs only minimal attention until the larger cities we face are brought under our control."

"It shall be done!" His aids barked in unison as they left on swift steeds for Nancy.

OoO

October
We leave behind a covering force in Artois and strike at Flandern with 5346/847, where the Burgundians have stationed a small garrison of 940 men.

In mid-October, we formally join the French alliance

By the 22nd of the month, we destroy the small cavalry garrison at Flandern in a two day battle with that force, losing 488 of our own infantry, and 112 horsemen (still have 4858/735 in the Army of Lorraine....such as it is.

November
3000 Freshly trained recruits from Burgundy (Zeeland) march immediately to try and route us out of Flandern. Our own newly trained recruits stand ready to serve in Lorraine, and these march south, invading Compte and locking down Burgundy's two southern provinces, securing that flank for us, most handily.

On the 16th, our main force defeats the raw recruits from Zeeland and we send them packing back to their home province, our losses, however, and relatively heavy (1311 Infantry and 437 Horse), leaving us with 3547/186 in Flandern.

Our finance minister arranges a loan from whatever moneylenders will take a chance on such a tiny nation as ours (200d), and we use a portion of that money to raise a staggering 8000 additional infantry in Lorraine.

OoO

Jaeger shook his head and spat upon the body of one of the fallen Burgundian horsemen.

Miserable land, and a cursed business this was.

His army had taken some serious hits, and without additional reinforcements soon, there was no doubt that this would be a short war indeed.

"What's the latest on those damnable reinforcements?" He barked.

The answer was not the one he wanted. "They should be ready to march north and join us by the dawning of the new year, milord!"

He spat again. "If any of us still live by then, I am sure they will be a welcome addition....if not, then they can come to collect our corpses.....but....since they're not coming for a time yet, then we shall do our best....let us take the fight to that rabble we chased out of here last eve....your report is that they have made back to Zeeland?"

"Yes milord!"

"Then to Zeeland we shall go in pursuit of them!"

December
Leaving a covering force to guard against recruitment in Flandres, we send 2407/127 to invade Zeeland and hit the demoralized Burgundian troops before they can rally and come at us again.

all stop with the minting of coin....only when we absolutely need it...we needed it initially, as we pillaged...and now, we need to guard against the long-term dangers of inflation

So ends Lorraine's first year in an impossible war.....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

1420

January 28th

"Can someone please tell me anything! Anything at all useful about the disposition of the enemy?"

It had been a hard week's fighting, and Jaeger's temper was short. He had lost a great many men in the battle for Zeeland, and barely had enough force left to keep the province under guard. An advance to Holland was impossible at this point, much as he would have dearly loved to once more give battle to the enemy. Each day was precious...each day they delayed in locking down all Burgundian lands was another day in which their fate could be sealed. If even one Burgundian province was allowed to remain free....he shuddered to think at what fate the Army of Burgundy would have in store for he and his men. The Duke of Burgundy was well known for his temper and his malice, NOT for his gentle nature, and he had no illusions.

No illusions at all.

"No firm word on the disposition of the enemy, milord Jaeger, but our own casualty reports are in."

He rolled his eyes and bit back a groan. "What's the bad news then?"

"Our force stands at 1875....Infantry all."

"We have no more horse? Not a single cavalryman remains alive?"

"I fear not milord." The aide said sadly. "Total losses amounted to 532 infantry, and all 127 of our remaining cavalry."

"Sweet Mary, Mother of God....no horse troops whatsoever....and you can bet the Duke of Burgundy still has his."

A bitter pill. Not that his scant cavalry force would have provided much protection, but some was better than none at all.

"Very well." He said wearily. "Have the men form pickets and closely watch the northern approaches. We don't need any nasty surprises riding in from Holland."

National Stability at +3, 150d in our treasury, and our economy stands at 17.6 --> 17.4 from taxation and pillaging, + 0.2 in goods production

In January, the southern flank is reinforced, as 2000 infantry recruits march to Compte, and thence to Burgogne, and 6000 march to Champagne in an attempt to reinforce our embattled main army.

The force currently IN Compte is itself divided, with a covering force only left in that province, and the bulk of our southern forces consolidating in Burgogne, giving us just enough to initiate a siege there.

An additional 1000 infantry are raised in Nancy

By March, our northern reinforcements make Artois, Flandern by April, and Zeeland by May.

OoO

"Good of you to join us at last!" Jaeger said in disgust as the long lines of infantry at last made their way to his small encampment in Zeeland. "And how many men under arms?"

"Six thousand, milord Jaeger!" Came the swift reply. "Six thousand men and the blessing of our Duke!"

"No horse troops?" He asked, clearly disappointed.

"None milord...it was deemed too expensive at this time."

"Penny pinching accountants....no place in a war for thier kind." He grumbled. "Nonetheless, we have enough to make for Holland, so let us not keep the enemy waiting!"

OoO

Jaeger take command of the 6000 new recruits and marches them into Holland, where the remnants of the Burgundian army lays waiting (1286). He hands them a stinging defeat on July 3rd, and sends the survivors fleeing into Geldre, but lacks sufficient manpower to maintain a siege where he is (4918 left in his command).

By September, thanks to some creative maneuvering and re-position of troops, he gets just enough (5588) men to begin a siege there, and when the Burgundian remnants strike him again in late September, he defeats them with no losses to his command....the Army of Burgundy is no more, and all Burgundian lands are under the control of Lorraine.

[Velociryx]

The southern front

[Velociryx]

September 22nd, Provence declares a war against Savoy, and we honor our obligations, although we are stretched far too thin to commit in any great way to that fight.

December 17th sees progress in the southern front as Burgogne is captured and the Duke of Burgundy is forced to flee to England. Our siege force there makes plans to march to Compte at the dawning of the new year.

1421
National Stability +3
Treasury 123d

February sees an army of 6905 of our troops in Compte and a formal siege is begun there!

April, progress in the siege of Holland (walls at -3)

May sees a bit of good news not directly related to the war, with Lorraine experiencing an agricultural revolution! (+1 manpower)...muchly needed indeed! And in May, a number of strategic Royal Marriages are arranged (Pfalz, Cologne, Kleves, and Munster), as we do our best to improve relations with nations we hope to soon be neighbors with!

By August, the defenders behind Holland's stout walls give in, and that province is captured! Our siege crew marches south to Zeeland as our efforts against the House of Burgundy gain steam.

September 21st, Compte falls to the Southern Army of Lorraine, and that force makes plans to march to Lyonnais in October!

November - Lorraine's Southern Army marches to Languedoc, and December, to Guyenne, where we discover a 2000-strong English garrison in Gascogne. That settles the matter then....we shall invade Poitou come January!

"Gotta hand it to them...the men of Lorraine have balls of solid rock!"
~Overheard in the Court of the Dauphine, Ile de France

[Velociryx]

1422 - Lorraine's Impossible War enters its 3rd year
National stability is at +3
Treasury is 101d
Economy: 18.7 --> 18.1 pillaging and taxation + 0.6 goods production
plans made to spend the next two years at full minting, to bulk up our treasury for loan repayment - target inflation = 3%

Zeeland's walls are at (2)

April sees us make a variety of general improvements to our national infrastructure (Inf 2), and we begin thinking in terms of paying off our loan!

September - Poitou is captured in a short (9-month) siege! The 2k English garrison from Gascogne invades, but is hampered in their efforts by having to attack our tenacious defenders cross-river.

Our victorious army counter-invades, following them back into Gascogne and destroying them utterly, and still has sufficient force to lay in a siege there! (5337 remaining)

In October, we gain a better understanding of regional market fluctuations and investment patterns (Trade 2), and otherwise, the rest of the year passes quietly.

1423 - Our war's 4th year
National stability is at +2
Treasury = 121d, Economy = 3.3 --> 2.3 in taxation, 1.0 in goods production

June - 4,000 additional infantry raised in Nancy in an effort to bring this war to a conclusion.

August - Sale of Offices - Accepted! (tax value in Lorraine -1, but it puts 100d in our treasury in the here and now!)

September - our new recruits arrive in Artois and begin a proper siege.

October - A setback in the form of a revolt in Artois smashes our siege force, reducing it to 2938/145.... That the rebels were put down is small consolation....

1424
Stability +2
Treasury 246d
Economy = 1.7

January - The English land some three thousand troops in Poitou...not enough to begin a siege, but enough to give our tiny army pause.

February 7th, Zeeland finally falls! Our forces there march triumphantly to Flandres, sending a detachment of their swelling ranks to bolster the siege group in Artois.

By May, the English forces in Poitou have swelled to some seven thousand, under Gloucester.

August 21, Artois is captured, and the siege crew marches to the English province of Caux, by way of French lands.

October 19, Flandern falls, and Provence Declares a war against Brittany. None of Frances other Vassal states comply with the wishes of the House of Provence, and we sense a golden opportunity, but alas, our dance card is quite full at the present time....

The Flandern siege crew marches on to Calais!

December: Our loan is repaid and we have 75d to spare! Lorraine's worth in the eyes of her creditors has been well and duly proved!

On Decmeber 5th, in control of every Burgundian province, we impose a harsh peace with them, claiming Comte, Artois, Flandern, Zeeland, and 275d. They have little choice but to accept our terms, and we promote Tax Collectors to streamline taxation in these new holdings!

[Velociryx]

1425
Stability +2
Treasury 173d
Economy = 18.4 --> 17.2 (taxation) + 1.2 (goods production)

March - Caux is captured
May - Calais is captured. The English offer us 369d for peace....a generous offer, but we must decline....we need land, not money!

In late May, Gascogne falls!

And on June 20th, 1425, the English King sends an emmissary to our Duke of Lorraine....

[Velociryx]

Of course, we have no choice but to accept this peace...it is far more generous than even our wildest imaginings, and so, in six years of hard, daring fighting, Lorraine grows from a tiny backwater Duchy to a strong regional power with as much territorial sway as France!

We have, however, been marked, and have made some powerful enemies.....

Tax collectors are promptly promoted in all our new holdings, and we ride the rest of the year out quietly.

Thus, the opening ends, and this is our initial situation.....a staggering victory over England and Burgundy, a vastly expanded realm, but....not without some problems.

Situation screen shots to follow, showing details of our current position!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

The Lands of Lorraine, 1426....

[Velociryx]

Situation shots of 1426

#1

[Velociryx]

Disposition of the army

[Velociryx]

Fleet capacity

[Velociryx]

Our greatly expanded economy!

[Velociryx]

Europe in general....

[Velociryx]

Taxation and production information of our holdings....

[Velociryx]

Additional information on our holdings

[Velociryx]

Ranked as the 26th largest economy....

[Velociryx]

and finally, a look at the top economies in the world, to see where we stand relative to them....

EDIT: Dangit! China and the Incas didn't show....China's the top dog with 54.73, followed by the Inca Empire at 45.79....

[Velociryx]

And so....it begins, but where to go next? How to best take Lorraine, a rising star in Europe, and guide her to further greatness?

Burgundy is down but not out (I tried to make a peace which included Holland, but they just would not go for it, and besides, we REALLY needed money to get TC's promoted in the lands we acquired and put them on a paying basis), and England has been, by and large, kicked off of mainland Europe but is understandably none-too-fond of us.

On the other hand, we made quite a good impression on France with our performance in this war, and have expanded our economy in six short years from next to nothing, to being in the top 30 in the world.

Problems on the horizon for us:

1) Unless we want to REALLY be a badboy, our only real chances for future expansion must come at France's expense--otherwise, we expand into German territory and are forced to do a LOT of annexing, which will turn world opinion (largely neutral at this time) against us, and see us having to fight LOTS of nasty wars). On the other hand, France is the best friend we've got, but we know...we all know, that France is tomorrow's monster....right now, we have a leader with good diplomatic skills, and can probably (not this year, as we have only 5d in the treasury), get ourselves into a good alliance and go paste some Frenchies before they get strong...as it stands, we're on par with them, territory-wise, but they simply have more opportunities to grow, and will soon outpace us.

2) Naval presence, or not at this time?

3) Research objectives? Right now, we're steaming ahead for Inf 3

4) Disposition of our forces?

And hosts of other stuff I prolly haven't even thought of.

Nonetheless, I bring you this bright beginning, in the hopes that we, collectively, can raise Lorraine to undreamed of heights!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Relations with our alliance members and direct neighbors (those we share a border with)

Burgundy: -200
Geldre: +31
Munster: +72 (RM)
Kleves: +72 (RM)
Cologne: +72 (RM)
Lux: +36
Brabant: +18 (Vassal of Burgundy)
Pfalz: +72 (RM)
Baden: (-61) (recently acquired Alsace, expect relations to drop steadily....Vassal of Austria)
Helvetia: (+44)
Savoy: +40
France: (+139) (RM and Mil access)
Orleanais: +19
England: -140
Burbonais: +19
Auvergne (no border, but allied) +23
Provence (no border, but allied) +24

-=Vel=-

[ravagon]

Bloody hell.

From one province to eight in a single war? A new CoT included? Relatively light losses? Buckets of cash?

Or to put it another way ... bloody hell.


Hmmm. So once again you've nicked French and Burgundian home provinces?
I'm beginning to see a pattern.

[Velociryx]

Indeed....I sooooo enjoy playing in this little patch of Europe! Such devastating danger, such impressive firepower that our enemies can bring to bear...I simply LOVE it!

And yes, that's a bit of a downer as well....with some of our holdings bearing French CB shields (including our capitol province), we can expect relations with France to diminish over time....possibly another reason to seek strong alliance partners elsewhere and bust some French chops while they are relatively weak....but, dare we do that with England and Burgundy angry with us?

An interesting quandry, and into whose arms would we flee? Aragon is a natural choice, given their border with France....but an English Gambit (repairing relations with England and Burgundy and joining them) might have some interesting implications as well....

Or, we could ride it out with France and see what happens.

Endless possibilities....thoughts on the matter, good sir?

-=Vel=-

[ravagon]

Quandary indeed.

Ummm .... I guess the obvious next move is against Burgundy again in another 5 years.
England, while they won't like you, won't have a CB on those French provinces you've just taken I presume?
Ergo once Burgundy is out of the way (or once their alliance is broken) relations can begin a-mending.

I don't have too much experience with playing with a high BB rating. How quickly does the BB rating decline over time? Can you annex a few countries with no other effect and leave it to decline naturally, or does even a tarnished reputation hurt you immediately?

Another obvious move would be to the north to try and link up your home province with the low countries.
This though could prevent France from heading east and swallowing up many of those one-province minors (thereby taking most of the BB hits for you).
More importantly, any future conflicts between France-Austria (ie: conflicts which swallow up one-province minor allies like hotcakes) could well be fought on your territory (assuming you're allied to either one) which might not turn out so well.

How about looking to the south-east? Savoy and a Med port or two?
Also the French minors are ripe pickings. If they begin reneging on their obligations and you're the one to annex then you'll both increase your own holdings and reduce French aspirations in the future.
If France manages to link her Northern and Southern territories and remove the English continental presence entirely you may be faced with a runaway juggernaught.

Choices upon choices upon choices ...

[Velociryx]

I was thinking Burgundy too, but with her power shattered, she's only good for one more province....still, a quick war to force vassalage upon her in five years' time might not be a bad thing....and, she's still got some juicy events which allow her to absorb some of her neighbors (taking the BB hits for us, and then we can repair relations and annex) (IIRC, Brabant and Lux both stand good chances of getting added to Burgundy's fold....tho now that Burgundy has no common land border with either, I'm not sure if that's a go....?

BB....on impossible level, it's 1 point per 8 years....a bit more lenient on hard, but I'm not sure by how much....in any case, so long as we're not the highest bb in the land, and so long as we don't cross that threshold, we should be okay (which means we should keep an eye out for folks like the Austrians and Ottos and wait till one of them goes on a bit of an annexing spree, which will draw attention away from us and our BB...

As to uniting our holdings....in looking at the map, a strike against France yielding us a minimum of Champagne and Picardie would go a long ways toward meeting that goal. If we also acquired Nivernais or Lyonnais, I'd not mind AT ALL giving up Poitou to one of the French Sattellites in a separate peace....that would simply matters of our own defense, and consolidate all our holdings via land connection (plus we pick up a grain province....extra 1k troops by itself, plus the economic and manpower impact).

Another possibility....while we're still allied to France, we could do a quick strike against Baden and pick up Alsace....the one province we have territorial claims against....no nationalism when we conquer it, nice MP boost....the only drawback there is French leadership...there's no guarantee that WE'd be the ones to grab Alsace, even if we arrived there first to begin the siege....France has so many doggone leaders that they might just take the siege from us.... (which, btw, is another reason to get away from the alliance....we need an ally who won't be robbing sieges out from under us, but who can still help us materially against our enemies....

-=Vel=-

[pg]

nice going!

i'd definately go after burgundy, and england again asap to take holland, gascogne, and normandie. it shouldn't be too hard, but your biggest problem will probably be making sure your allies don't take any of the spoils. maybe you are even strong enough to do it without calling your allies. if you do call your allies i'd try to make peace first with burgundy to take holland and hope someone afterwards will annex her allowing you opportunities later on. somewhere around here i'd also try for a rm(and gifts if need be) with aragon or castile to improve your relations for later.

a few years after that your manpower should be boosted from a drop of 3% to 2% revolt risk in first war acquired provinces so that taking on france should be within reach. hopefully you can get into castile's, or aragon's alliance for some assistance. preferably you should try to gain provinces so your empire should be linked up better. i'd say taking picardie and champange is a definite must along with either vendee, and maine or guyenne, lyonnais, and languedoc.

i noticed your trade level is fairly high so perhaps it might be good idea to put some traders into the kurland cot to boost your manpower from grain trading?

since baden is vasallized by austria there is a good chance austria will annex them later so you shouldn't rush to take alsace as you can use that for free cbs in future wars vs the habsburgs.

[Velociryx]

Excellent thoughts, PG!

I like the idea of leaving Alsace open so we get a freebie CB on whomever has control of it, but how 'bout this:

Since our BEST short, to mid-term growth possibilities are going to come at the expense of France (ie - taking Holland from Burgundy should be no sweat at this point, but it's off culture, and eventually will be off-religion, so it won't be "worth" as much to us as French or Germanic provinces (I LOVE Lorraine's French/German culture!)....soooo....we could use our CB to DoW Austria, call our allies and LET France take Alsace for us....that gives us a CB vs. France for when we switch alliance families and start busting them....it also could go a long ways toward stirring the pot and getting the Austrians to hate France, meanwhile our Duke, skilled in the ways of Diplomacy, could repair our own rift with the Austrians fairly easily.

It would take an enormous amount of coin to repair relations with England at this point, and in truth, I'm not sure if it's worth it (I had considered possibliy kissin' and makin' up with England/Burg and joining THEM against France, but....that's a very expensive proposition which would prolly take YEARS to accomplish.

Since the English provs currently under French control are not the more valuable French provs, that puts us back in the boat of eyeing France for future expansion....unless one of the German minors (or Austria) goes on a munching spree in the HRE and we can let them eat the cb hit for all the annexation.

For the time being though, it still looks like--aside from popping Burgundy again in the not-so-distant future, our best hope for big gains will be at French expense....if it pleases those following the game, I'll play us out to the year end today and see how much operating cash we have at the start of 1427....give us a better indication of what our options are....with all of 5d in the treasury right now, all we really CAN do (aside from RM's), is stand pat.

Good thoughts too, re: trade, and to that end, perhaps our next slider adjustment ought to be Aristoc -1? (that still gives us a production boost, but also inches that trade effie higher, and since we DO have a significantly better trade effie than production at this time, it might be a good idea to start makin' good use of it (can also start plying our merchants into Flandern, esp. now that we own it!

Keep the thoughts coming, cos I don't wanna play beyond year-end to get some money for us to work with without coming to a consensus here!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

But to that end, since we have 4 Diplomats available, how should I use them between now and the end of the year? RM's to Castile, Aragon, and Portugal, with one held in reserve? Other candidates that share borders with us?

EDIT: pg makes another excellent point...10-years from now, when the nationalism in our newly acquired holdings drops from 3% to 2% revolt risk, we'll see a spiking of manpower....might be a good idea to make our preparations now (over the next ten years) with a plan to bust whomever's chops right after we see our nationalism drop....of course, we could still maul Burgundy between now and then, but for a....shall we say....larger target, that extra manpower and extra max army size will, no doubt, be extremely helpful, and we can carefully grow our war chest between now and then so we'll have plenty of funds for the war....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Other considerations:

I do not believe that we, as a nation, can afford to be passive. Having suddenly shot up the growth chart (starting econ of 1.0 per month, now more than 12 per month....a 1200-odd percent increase in six years!)....having angered some of the more prominent nations near us (Burgundy--not much of a threat any longer--and England (major potential threat), and at least discussing the possibility of choking the life out of France while she's still in her infancy....if we sit back and remain passive, I believe that we will relegate ourselves to a marginalized position on the world stage.

Right now, the only reason we have ANY chance to keep our holdings is the fact that we have military access through France.....they get uppity and take that away from us, and we're in a bind, BIG TIME (especially with no fleet and and low naval tech...even if we HAD a fleet, we'd take attrition damage trying to reinforce Poitou by sea if we lose access to French ports)....but Poitou aside, the heart and soul of our holdings are not land-connected to Lorraine....what's making our economy hum at this point are our territories in and around the Low Countries....we lose reliable access to those, and we might as well still be a one-province minor.

So....having said that, I feel that it is in our own national self interest to maintain a highly aggressive stance with the first, overriding priority being to unify our holdings so that we no longer have to rely on anyone's good graces to travel from one end of our Kingdom to the other.

In terms of making additional landgrabs, that means a strike at Lux (major bb hit and world opinion takes a nosedive if we annex), or an aggressive hit against France while we're still on par with them technologically (right now, all our efforts are being poured into improving infrastructure--with the goal being infra 5 and inflation-busting mayors--but you can bet that France is putting all their efforts into guns and not butter. We wait too long to hit them, and we'll find ourselves facing an increasingly stronger France, with a smaller army and inferior weapons....no matter who our allies are, that's an uphill fight.

In the end though, the game will be won or lost in the economic arena, and I believe that a strong economic focus while making use of our armies while everybody is nicely low-tech is the right combination to get us into a position of dominance.

And speaking of a strike against France, it goes without saying that we ought to wait until they're embroiled in a war elsewhere, and give their armies plenty of time to move well away from the northern French territories (which should be our first targets, if we opt to move against them....isolating Paris and connecting Lorraine with our most valuable holdings), then hit them with everything we have, and in the company of strong, hungry allies....

OoO

Lorraine: Goals and objectives for the immediate future (the remainder of 1426 – January 1429)

Diplomacy
• Secure RM’s with the nations of the Iberian peninsula (RM’s to Castile, Aragon, and Portugal)

• Continue to bolster relations with those nations we share a direct border with, and whom we have no territorial ambitions against at this time (RM’s to: Savoy, Geldre, Lux, and Helvetia) (can’t RM Brabant or Baden, nor any of the French vassals....perhaps a letter to the Duke of Brabant?)

• Any efforts toward Austria at this time? Any additional efforts toward the Iberians (letters after the RM?)


Military
• Force review (currently we have ~10k in the Low Countries—posted to Artois—and ~5k in Poitou…nothing to guard Lorraine or Comte)…this is…certainly not ideal, but the low countries is where we can expect to see the greatest number of revolts, and Poitou is so far away that I thought it best to station a permanent garrison there….if Comte rebels, we can march troops through France from the north….again, hardly ideal, but given the scant size of our max. military at present, I was uncertain what else to do….is this an acceptable disposition of our forces, or does it need closer review?

• We have ports now (which means no penalty for naval tech research), but no navy….the question is…do we really need one right now? If yes, then perhaps we could focus on galleys in the immediacy….that would give us a “presence” without being overly taxing on our budget. If the Council determines that we do need one (a fleet)….what size and carriage capacity are we shooting for? What will we be attempting to do with it? (what would its primary mission be, at this point)


National Development
• Right now, all our efforts are being poured into improving our national infrastructure. Any other recommendations, or should we stay steady on that course?

• What CoT’s should we be focusing our mercantile efforts on?

• We have an upcoming government (slider) adjustment….thoughts on what we should change with it?

• Should we work on building up a national warchest, or spend it while we got it? If it’s the former, what level should we shoot for to maintain in our treasury in case of national emergency?


These are the questions we’ll need to come up with solid answers to, and to that end, when I return home this evening (after I update the Scotland thread!), I shall play through to the end of the year (Jan, 1427) and see what we’ve got, coin wise, and will also post our unit costs at that time!

-=Vel=-