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Old September 5, 2003, 13:51   #31
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And finally, we can do this one of two ways....we can formalize "Cabinet Positions" for Lorraine (ie - Rav is our Minister of the Economy, pg is Strategic Command, etc)...or we can just leave it open ended and non-structured.

If we DO want some structure, then here are the posts we'll need:

Minister of Development
Decides on what slider moves to make, selects and sets research allocations, decides on what CoT's to develop market presence in, when and where to make provincial appointments, and determines when and where to construct manufactories.

Minister of the Army
Sets troop levels and placements, determines when we go to full alert or stand-down status, formulates battle strategy in times of war, and makes troop or mercenary requsitions for us.

Minister of the Navy
Per above, 'cept relating to our (nonexistent, at this point) fleets.

Chief Diplomat
Decides what to do with our diplomatic corps....where to send, what to send....sets diplomatic priorities and in times of war, determines whether we honor alliance obligations

Minister of Colonial Development
Decides how to use our colonists and missionaries, is also in command of any explorers and/or conquistadors that may come our way (these being independent of the "regular" army or navy)

And I will be....the arbiter....as you guys fight over resources, it'll fall to me to try and meet all your various demands to the best of my abilities....

Thoughts? Positions are entirely voluntary at this point....if multiple people want the same post, then a "council" is formed for that position instead, and I'll pick up the slack and take on any responsibilities NOT volunteered for.

-=Vel=-
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Old September 5, 2003, 17:32   #32
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Our story continues

Duke Charles the Second, of Lothrengen sat contemplating in his secret meeting room....brow furrowed in thought.

A soft knock at the door interrupting his long thoughts.

"Come." He said with authority.

The door opened and his advisor stepped into the room, shut and locked the door behind him. "You sent for me, My Lord Duke?"

"Yes, I...."

"It's about the letter, isn't it?" The Royal Advisor asked, already knowing the answer to the question.

"Indeed it is....Six years ago, when I penned those words to the Dauphin of France, his vision of what could be was so bold, so vivid...." His voice fell away in bitter disappointment.

"And now?" The Vizer prompted.

"And now....the bold vision is lost...France is mired in politics and trickery....her Kings only wish to increase their lands....the dream of France is dead."

"A sad day." The Vizer murmured.

"But....what if another dream arose to take its place? What if the dream of France alone is too small? Could that dream's death be destiny of a different sort calling?"

"And what does my Lord Duke have in his mind for the future?"

"Charlemagne....a re-awakening of the empire of Gaul and the Germanys."

"The dream of France alone is indeed too small if those are your ambitions."

"They are not....were not...I know not from whence they came to be exact....but I do know that we have it in us....that, having tasted our first victories on the field of battle, this dream....a greater dream than the short-sighted "King of France" could ever fathom, burns hotly in my blood...I would see it to fruition."

"Save that you know you will not....that dream, if it is to be realized, will take generations."

"Yes...but my children, and their children, and theirs after them can finish what we began here against England and Burgundy, and in that manner, I can see the dream through."

"And you would do this? You would sacrifice yourself and your life to something greater, knowing full well that you will die before it is done."

The Duke looked at his most trusted Vizer with eyes ablaze. "Yes." He said simply...almost in defiance of heaven itself. "Yes I would."

"Then you are indeed....the one." The Vizer told him and walked silently from the room.

-=Vel=-
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Old September 5, 2003, 21:14   #33
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Ran the game up to the new year to give us some sense of what kind of money we have to work with, and in the meantime, adopted a holding pattern and did only a couple of things mentioned previously:

* RM to Castile (+59) (allied to vassal Portugal)
* RM to Aragon (+59) (allied to Albania, Naples, and Ragusa)

We have 4 pts of War Exhaustion (should be gone late this year)

Production Effie = 13%
Trade Effie = 31%

Unit Costs:
Warships 59d
Galleys 10d

1k Infantry 6d
1k Cavalry 15d

Exact Disposition of our forces:

Poitou Garrison: 4000 Infantry, 1000 Cavalry

Artois Regiment: 7498 Infantry, 2000 Cavalry

Merchant Costs and CoT values:
Flandres: 3d, 131
Ile de France: 2d, 155
Micklenburg: 5d, 127
Astrankhan: 6d, 88
Novgorod: 6d, 141
Alexandria: 12d, 251
Venice: 6d, 195
Liguria: 6d, 161
Tago: 6d, 124
Kurland: 6d, 76

Treasury is 50d at present with 8.4--> 9d per year in expenses, for a net gain of 50-2, 48-9 = 39d. That's what we have to spend this year....39d....thoughts on how best to use those funds?
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Old September 5, 2003, 21:26   #34
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Other details:

Since we have war exhaustion, I diverted some of our research efforts away from Infrastructure and into stability to offset the hit (4d per month), and will ease this down as WE goes away, unless the council would like me to do otherwise.

As you can see, we have 5 diplomats to play with right now, and 6 merchants, so we have the raw materials to play with, and at least some resources to work with.

Gentlemen, Lorraine awaits your orders....

-=Vel=-

EDIT: Oh, and we've alredy climbed 5 spots, and are now the 21st largest economy on the planet....
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Old September 5, 2003, 23:25   #35
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Giving me the keys to the treasury??

You might as well flush it down the ... , erm , store it in the chamber pot for safe keeping.

Re: Comissioning of a Navy - I doubt that it'd be of too much use right now. You certainly couldn't take on the RN for the forseeable future without an immense effort.
Running blockades of isolated provinces with a few loaded galleys seems pretty risky to me. Better to let a province fall and have one of the French leaders take it back for you?

If your french "allies" try and dominate in the north you might be better off trying for some of the English holdings in southern France perhaps?
That and ruthlessly target any of the other French minors that fail to come on board.

It'd be nice if somebody else were to take Holland away before the upcoming bout as then you'd be able to annex Burgundy completely - but if wishes were horses ... ... well I guess you'd probably have a lot more cav.

[Edit: If I read correctly you have until June 1430 before the 5 year truce is up?
Might be better to build your treasury up for now for a big recruitment drive in 1429. That way your manpower will be replenished and your armies over-built by the time war comes so you might not need those very expensive mercs ... ]

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Old September 5, 2003, 23:32   #36
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Indeed yes, good Sir! Any post you wish for is yours to command! What position on Lorraine's cabinet interests you the most? (and by your earlier response, I'm guessing that it won't be the Lord Admiral of our non-existent fleets! )

Total agreement re: Holland....be nice if we could somehow get Burgundy into a disaster of a war....the only nation that could do it realistically though, would be France...

So....perhaps charge of our military for you then? Or, since it seems to be just you and me, you take the whole hog till someone else come along?

-=Vel=-
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Old September 5, 2003, 23:34   #37
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Quite true, re: the truce timetable, btw....we've got some time, and I believe that next year will see more than a 48d boost to treasury....hope so anyway...that gives us scant materials to work with....

In the meantime, what say you to the notion of some Merchant attempts, perhaps....and possibly a letter to Brabant (not crucial, I would not think, but at 8d, it might be money well spent to boost relations a tad)

-=Vel=-
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Old September 5, 2003, 23:43   #38
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Actually the post of port-Admiral suits me rather well right now. Can't really make too much of a mess with that one.

Merchants I have absolutely no idea about I'm afraid as I generally go for Tago and wait for a trade advantage before targetting Liguria/Venice. Aiming for high-grain CoT's though sounds like a good idea ...

Btw is that an Austrian force in Pfalz?

Wolves at the door ...
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Old September 5, 2003, 23:46   #39
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It is indeed the Austrians giving battle to a variety of German minors! I'm watching that with interest to see if there are any annexations afoot! If so....perhaps an opportunity to expand into Germany will present itself, tho I have my doubts that I can tangle with the Austrian alliance by myself, so France will no doubt have to be called in to assist, which might wind up strengthening them....

As to the cabinet positions, whichever you'd like, good sir! They're all wide open at this time! (oh, and I just updated the Scotland thread too....seems your little prediction about England has come to pass!)

-=Vel=-
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Old September 5, 2003, 23:50   #40
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So....if I'm reading you right then, you're all for a general holding pattern for the moment, to wait for the manpower spike, then a military buildup....no preference on merchants (in which case, my inclination is to send them to Flandres, as that is our cheapest market to buy into), and nix to the navy at this time.

That leaves diplomacy and research.

The Iberians have been married into....anybody else on the "hit list" or no real preferences?

As to research....satisfied with our current Infrastructure focus with slight spending on Stab till WE goes away?

-=Vel=-

EDIT: If the above is acceptable, then I shall press on to the end of the year and see what January of the following brings for us....
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Old September 6, 2003, 00:11   #41
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*crosses fingers*for Scotland.

I found out the hard way the consequences of too many RM's last night when my supposed (hah!) allies DoW'd 2 nations with whom I had them. Not nice.

Might be better to use them for insults/guarantees (if there's anybody you want to target), or just let them build up in case you need them. (Wouldn't want France to drag you into a fight with Denmark just when you're getting ready for Burgundy ).

Infrastructure/stability sounds good.


That'll be all from me for a couple days.
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Old September 6, 2003, 05:59   #42
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Interesting. I'll follow this.
I'm thinking that it might be good to take Luxemburg to make a connection between your capital and the rich rest of your possesions? Then you won't be dependant of other countries to pass, and you will get more money, as IIRC, you loose some to penalties withjout a connection.

BTW, what difficulity settings and which patch do you play with?
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Old September 6, 2003, 07:12   #43
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Hey guys! Will do then....run the game up to the new year and see what sorts of things are in store for us.

As to settings, 1.07, Hard difficulty, Normal AI aggressiveness....I love playing at impossible level, but thought that might be a bit daunting, on top of what I'm trying to do with these threads...

As to Lux....we could easily beat and absorb them, there is no doubt...the only proble I have with that is the fact that our relations with the other German Minors aren't strong enough to withstand that strain at this time....we eat Lux, we fight LOTS of German minors because of it....very risky.... Of course, to that end, we can ply some more RM's and do what we can to improve relations with them (the minors) so that eating Lux becomes a survivable proposition.....that's expensive, on account of how many minors there are, but I will play in that direction for this year (combining yours and Rav's sugesstions), and see where that leaves us at the dawning of the new year...

-=Vel=-
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Old September 6, 2003, 08:28   #44
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Strange Tidings for the French Alliance

Duke Charles II, of Lothrengen read the latest reports about the state of the alliance with a mixture of concern and delight and then, met the gaze of his Chief Advisor. "What do you make of it?"

The Advisor smiled. "Orleanais is a proud, free land, My Lord Duke, and it would seem that they share your feelings about the French King....their decision to cancel their vassalage and go their own way....following their own dream and vision for France is a bold step, no doubt, but I fear that they alone simply are not strong enough to stand against the might of France and her allies."

"How I wish that the Duke had come to me....it seems we have some common ground....if he had then perhaps there would have been time to bind them more closely to our banner...as it stands now, with such a bold proclamation....much as it pains me to admit it, there's not much we can do in the way of assistance....he acted too swiftly, and without the benefit of proper thought."

"Indeed."

The Duke blew out a breath and looked heavenward. "If war comes then, we shall have no choice but to support it...this path, I do not take with relish, because it only serves to strengthen France and their sadly warped version of the dream of what could be....nonetheless, even though I feel a deep and growing disagreement with the French King, there is little to be done, save for support our allies. We are not yet strong enough to stand apart."

"No...supporting Orleanais, or indeed, doing any less than pledging full support for the French cause would be tantamount to disaster for us, sadly."

The Duke considered that for a moment, and then got a wily glint in his eye. "Yes....and we could play to that....what if we made it exceedingly unhealthy for any of France's allies to balk at this war?"

"Become the enforcer of the French alliance?"

"Exactly that...if any of her vassals do not pledge their full support, then we have right of war with them, and I say we use it! We could pounce upon any who would dare defy the wishes of France....on the surface of it, this would make us appear rabidly loyal to the French King, which is exactly what he wants and expects from his allies, and in the same breath, we can strip away land and holdings from those nettlesome sattellites, which would lessen French acquisitions in later days."

"A bold plan, my Lord Duke, but if war comes before the dawning of the new year, know that it will stress the nation...we lack the means to prosecute such a war, having spent the bulk of our national treasury in attempts to gain market share in Flandres."

"And what of that plan?"

"One Merchant has succeed, though we have had four try this year."

"One of four....that is....disappointing."

"Yes, but remember, this is the first time we have ever attempted to develop a regional trade network that went beyond simple barter....it will take time to sort out the details and gain proficiency against those who have been doing it a far longer time than we."

"'Tis true." The Duke replied. "Nonetheless, I wish that our finances were in better condition for this....I know we have gained the confidence of the moneylenders, but am loathe to make use of their coin....we may need it for a more pressing fight down the line, what with the new strength that England's alliance finds itself with."

"Indeed, Navarra and the far-off Golden Horde are not much threat to us and ours, but the Duke of Geldre has nearly forty thousand swords at his disposal, and that is a dark tiding indeed, as Zeeland stands unguarded before them."

"Too well, do I know this....perhaps I have a fair cousin we could gift to the Duke of Geldre in marriage....if doing so would still his hand against us, it would be a worthy cause."

"An arranged marriage alone might not be sufficient, but I daresay a good start."

"Very well, then let us make it....we shall add to those efforts later, but for the time being, it is all we can afford to do."

"What of the matter of unruly Baden, my Lord?"

The Duke shook his head. "That matter is out of our hands for the time being...I dislike having such an aggressive, hostile neighbor, but what can we do? For the time being at least, our Germanic bretheren are taking them to task for their appetites, and for now, I say we simply watch these comings and goings to see what their outcome is....if the alliance of Saxony is victorious, then we do not have a problem in the least....if not...time will tell, no?"

"Time will tell."

OoO

February
2 Merchants sent to Flandres (6d)

March
Letter to the Duke of Brabant (8d) relations climb from +18 to +27

One (1) of our merchants succeeds

April
2 more merchants sent to Flandres (6d)

Baden annexes Helvetia, sparking a war between Baden, Austria, and Mantua vs. Mainz, Wurzburg, Hessen, Saxony, and Wurtemburg - Relations with Baden drop staggeringly to -166

May
Neither of our merchants succeed in establishing themselves

June
National stability is restored - all efforts are once more plied into improving national infrastructure.

July
Royal Marriage arranged with Geldre (rel to +48)

August 24th
Provence declares a war against breakaway Orleanais, and calls the French alliance to stand against them. All do, save for The House of Burbon, and Lorraine finds herself unprepared for when opportunity knocks....

Gentleman, the state of Lorraine is thus:

We have 16d remaining in our treasury this year, full stability, no revolts....Our economy has improved to 14.8 per month (12.3 from taxation, 2.3 from goods production, and 0.2 from trade surplusses), and we have an opportunity and right of war against The House of Burbon.

Burbonais consists of two provinces, each bordering our estates is Poitou.

Berri, the capitol province of the Burbons, currently plays home to the bulk of their army (11,878 troops)

Limousin, their only other holding, hosts 2970 troops.

We do not know how many of these are Infantry and how many are Horse troops....what we do know is that the Poitou garrison stands ready (4000/1000), and that when taken with our Artois Regiment, we have more men under arms than our potential adversaries--although admittedly, it will take us some months to get the bulk of our forces into position.

Thus, we have a quandry. An opportunity, there is no doubt, but a difficult decision to make.

Should we let the House of Burbon get away with their slight against the French alliance, or should we punish them most severely?

What is at stake here is chiefly two things. First, if we make this fight and carry the day, then we take a province for ourselves that the French would have no doubt acquired instead, and second, the prize for winning this fight is Limousin....a grain province. By itself, this will increase the number of troops we can maintain afield, as we do not yet have a native source for grains.

The downside is that until the new year (unless we take a loan), our ability to wage this war against the Burbons will be sorely limited. The men of the Poitou regiment are stout of heart, but are sadly outnumbered in this fight, and would remain so till late-year, when we could reinforce them from the Artois regiment.

This war could either be an enormous setback for us, or a significant step forward....what say you?

-=Vel=-
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Old September 6, 2003, 10:43   #45
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OOC Note: Unless someone stops me by saying something to the contrary, I shall play ahead and make war on the House of Burbon, basing that decision on Rav's earlier comment re: "ruthlessly targeting" French satellites that don't tow the line....God Save Lorraine!
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Old September 6, 2003, 19:46   #46
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Never mind....Just ran a little experiment in my latest new game....a couple of things I dinnae know....first, if an alliance member does not honor his obligations to the alliance, only the leader gets a cb against that member, and second, DoW-ing someone's vassal carries with it a -100 relation penalty with the master state (ie - if we DOW the Bourbons, we'll lose 100 points of goodwill with France....so....declaring against the Bourbons would be an offensive war (more bb), and p*ss off France at a time when we NEED them on our side.

In short, we're better off not doing it.

However....as I observe our current game situation, it occurs to me that more and more, mending fences with England and Burgundy is the way to go....England has a strong army on the mainland (35k), allied to Geldre with 39k....that more than matches what France currently has, and we can arrange ourselves to get LOTS of provinces out of the deal....of course, it'll be expensive, but I would contend that the expense would be well worth it, especially if we can minimize English/Burgundian gains.

-=Vel=-
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Old September 6, 2003, 20:11   #47
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Proposal - Operation Machievelli

Goal
To break the power of France before they can become a juggernaught, and to protect ourselves from an attack by Burgundy. Eventually, we will engineer a war against France in which we hope to gain at a minimum, the provinces of Champagne, Picardie, Nivernais, and Orleanais--more if we can get them, but those are our initial targets in this upcoming war.

Execution
Step 1: RM with England to begin mending fences before the truce with them expires (done, december 1427)

Step 2: Letters to England to slowly warm relations with them

Step 3: Cancellation of Military access with France, and dropping out of the French alliance (this must be IMMEDIATELY (same day) followed by step 4

Step 4: Gain entrance into England's alliance and declare war against France, providing that France is currently engaged IN a war against someone else.

Disposition of the Military
Because we plan on focusing all our acquisitions in the northern part of France, before we make our declaration, we'll need to march the Poitou regiment north (before we cancel mil access) and place it in Lorraine, for strikes of opportunity against Champagne or Nivernais.

Other Notes
The key to the success of this operation is to wait until France is pre-occupied, and lightning strikes into all of the northern French provinces. This will probably require the taking of AT LEAST one loan, and possibly more, and will require full minting of coin. The one thing we don't want to do is to find ourselves badly in need of troops at a time when victory is in our grasp. Inflation problems can be resolved later, AFTER we hand France a defeat which utterly cripples them.

Timeframe
Soon as our level of nationalism hits 2% RR (increase in manpower for us)....sooner if an ideal opportunity presents itself.

To this end, I propose that we ply all efforts into two things between now and then:
1) Increasing relations with England (obviously the most important of the two), and
2) Improving our trade position in Flandres, and then moving on to Ile De France (if we can get an embargo in place by France for aggressive trading, then we won't incur as many BB points for our war)

-=Vel=-
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Old September 8, 2003, 05:59   #48
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I'd say that ally with England is the way to go. It seems like a mighty good plan to me. France is a lot more of a threat to us than the English are in the long term. Thus it is better to decimate them in the beginning, before they get really strong.
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Old September 8, 2003, 10:42   #49
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I agree with ragou. I would, however, try to warm the relation of other potential threats at our border, to not get involved in a two front war. This is of course only if we can afford it. I am a player that mostly like to play safe.
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Old September 8, 2003, 10:51   #50
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Hey guys, and g'morning! I'm glad you're leaning in this direction, cos I think it's got some interesting potential as a strategy....the main reason I'm so interested in this *particular course* is twofold:

First (and perhaps most important), is that there's only one nation in the neighborhood of France that has a bigger army....England, and second, since we REALLY peeved Burgundy, the best way to prevent an attack by them against us is to choke off all possibility that it will occur (jump in an alliance with them).

Burg's got some good hitting power though (well, not now, but they could easily enough), and if we can also warm relations with them--to say nothing of Geldre's 40k army!--I think we'll be well-positioned to knock the socks off the French!

But....I agree that before we launch a general offensive, we gotta do everything we can to shore up relations with everybody who could hit us while we're fighting France....specifically that means Baden/Austria, Brabant, and Brittany (who has CB shields on us and the whole of France).

So....if we play it this way, it's going to take some time, and it's going to take some coin....(we should get everybody at least neutral, and preferably slightly kindly disposed to us before we even set marching orders against France, and with a monarch who has a good diplomatic rating, we can really use our diplomats as "weapons" in this regard!

-=Vel=-
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Old September 9, 2003, 00:51   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Proposal - Operation Machievelli
I don't like the name of the plan quite frankly.
Machiavelli was far too open and honest IMO.

Umm ... Alliance members not having a CB on breakaway nations is a bit of a let down. I never realised this until now.
England/Burgundian force dispositions are probably going to be the most crucial aspects of the next war given that they'll have the largest proportion of hitting power ...
I wonder if it might be an idea to stay out until you can see how its going - then to join in where and when your own force may be most useful.
If you were to then, say, concentrate, half of your strength on Bourbonais (assuming they take part of course) to cut French forces off from their southern provinces you could disperse most of the remaining force to cover everything in the south, loot, and prevent any new armies from being drawn up.
This would assume, of course, that the bulk of French strength was operating against the English in the North.
Pull it off, and, grab a province in the peace treaty to permanently separate northern and southern territories and France will evermore be effectively fighting wars on two fronts which can be amazingly effective.

The big question for the future will be with regard to what Austria is doing in the meantime ...

[Edit: Hmmm ... How many diplomats do we have?
If, for example, you were to guarantee the independence of Burgundy, or warn France perhaps, it'd probably give you the CB you're looking for.]
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Old September 9, 2003, 09:11   #52
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Indeed, and if our plan works, first, humiliating England and Burgundy in the name of France, and then mending fences with them and turning ON France like the rabid dogs that we are....if that works, we shall make Machiavelli look like a rank ameture....setting the two greatest powers in Europe against each other and then collecting the lion's share of the spoils....I LOVE IT!

Good plan on the warning vs. France, tho if we are in the English alliance, that might not work--depends on how confident France is about tangling with England again.

As to the next play period....I think we're beginning to reach a consensus then....hold the line til we get our manpower spike (nationalism drops to 2%), and spend the truce-time making nice with England and Burgundy, with the goal to have positive relations with both by the time the truce expires.

Other goals will be to improve relations with all our neighbors (Baden and Brabant, particularly), as well as Brittany and Austria (two non-neighboring countries that will figure prominently into our long-term security--ie, two that we don't need to have backstabbing us when we are neck-deep in our struggle with France.

So....a period of serious diplomacy, making full use of our Duke's excellent diplomatic skill and using it as a "weapon" of sorts (or perhaps "shield" would be the more apt term). And in the meantime of course, play the role of dutiful son to France.

If that sounds good to all parties involved, I shall duly run us ahead some, with that basic plan in mind, only stopping if there's some compelling decision to be reached--though, in light of the above, until we are ready for our backstab, we shall dutifully support any French war we are called upon to support.

Good plan?

-=Vel=-
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Old September 9, 2003, 09:24   #53
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Yes.
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Old September 9, 2003, 13:45   #54
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Will try to get the next segment played through by tonight or tomorrow (gotta post an update to Scotland first tho!), but in the meantime....assuming we can slay the French Dragon, here are a couple of longer-term things we prolly need to start kicking around:

1) When the reformation happens, should we make the switch to Prot?--I'm assuming that by the time this occurs, we'll have eaten France and absorbed several German minors and prolly be working the Austrians over. Doing so would no doubt strain Iberian relations and make them a pain to maintain, but if England also switches, then we're well positioned for a strong late-game partner--and if not England, then the Swedes, mebe? Anyway, the Prot/NoProt question is a biggie, looming on the horizon.

2) I'd like to see us conquer ALL French and German provinces by game end...any other acquisitions we ought to be looking for?

3) Colonial aspirations in any particular part of the world?

4) Any long-range goals or objectives (ie "Conquer China")

-=Vel=-
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Old September 9, 2003, 15:50   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
1) When the reformation happens, should we make the switch to Prot?--I'm assuming that by the time this occurs, we'll have eaten France and absorbed several German minors and prolly be working the Austrians over. Doing so would no doubt strain Iberian relations and make them a pain to maintain, but if England also switches, then we're well positioned for a strong late-game partner--and if not England, then the Swedes, mebe? Anyway, the Prot/NoProt question is a biggie, looming on the horizon.
I'd say no. We have German culture and can easily convert them. Also:
Quote:
2) I'd like to see us conquer ALL French and German provinces by game end...any other acquisitions we ought to be looking for?

3) Colonial aspirations in any particular part of the world?
I'd recommend to conquer Italy(rich and populus), and then it'd be a pain to convert them to protestantism. We will have many catholic provinces too. I also think it could be wise(if it's possible to do without too much cost) to take some of Iberia, to cripple a potential enemy. This isn't the most important though.

I also think we should colonize North and possibly Middle America. Lots of tribes to take on, and rich provinces. And not to be forgotten: Lots of same culture provinces after the conversions!
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Old September 9, 2003, 15:53   #56
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4) Any long-range goals or objectives (ie "Conquer China")
I don't think that will be neccessary. It's better to let things come as they come. And China is a bit WC'ish isn't it? (And note, I don't like WC's. Other than the Ebbesen ones!)
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Old September 9, 2003, 17:03   #57
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Hmmm...it'd be a cultural nightmare, but we could re-create the Roman Empire.....make the Med our own private lake? *G*

-=Vel=-
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Old September 9, 2003, 23:25   #58
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... Hmm ... Something ate my post.

How odd - given that my posts generally don't contain enough substance to satisfy a gnat for more than a few picoseconds ...

Anyway ...

England, in my rather limited experience, generally goes protestant/reformed once more than half of her provinces have changed (which usually seems to happen within a decade or two of the reformation).
France generally stays catholic although a few of her southern provinces often convert.
I have no idea about the German minors.

Ergo if you want to stay Catholic your relations with Spain/Portugal will be better but you'll suffer more hits if you want to target Austria or Spanish/Portugese holdings in the new world ...

I'd take a wait and see attitude I think, although you'll need to prepare for England breaking away initially ...
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Old September 10, 2003, 09:53   #59
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Sounds prudent to me....and we should prolly adopt that same stance....when the reformation hits, if more than half our provs go over to the Prot side, then we should too....and perhaps even with a slimmer margin than that (prots get more merchants, IIRC, more colonists, and a kick to the economy, so there are some compelling reasons to think about it). OTOH, the ability to snag Spanish and Portuguese territory in the new world and have them be same religion....that's pretty huge too)!

-=Vel=-
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Old September 10, 2003, 11:30   #60
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A thing to remember, is that if we stay catholic, we can become counter-reformed. Then we can take all the northern German states(quite a few) without any stab hits.

As for a "cultural nightmare", I disagree. We'll have at least French, German, Italian, and possibly Iberian and Swiss culture. We might get celtic(or whatever the name is) culture in Britanny if not the French get their events fired before we take them. That is affordable regarding stab cost. As an example, I can take my own ongoing game as the Papal States. when I had Italy, France, half of Iberia and the Netherlands, I had less than half a year to get a new stab point. I first got some more recovering time after I got German provinces with/without Protestant religion. Now I have those and some Scandinavian provinces, three religions and still I have a stab recovery time under one year IIRC. And as I convert more and more Protestants... BTW, do remember that the Papal States have only one state culture, while we have two!
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