Israeli attempt to assassinate all 3 top Hamas leaders fails due to weak missiles

[Edan]

:sarcasm:
So let's not try to kill Osama, since it would inflame the Arab Street(tm), also.
:sarcasm:

[Zylka]

It's not a problem if you negotiate with it to no possible end!

[Zylka]

Siro:

Where did you get the source picture for that russian weasel thing?

[The Templar]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


With targets of that importance, drop the ****ing building and apologize about the civilian casualties.

Easy to say when you are sipping Cuba Libres in Cabo or Tijuana or wherever you are.

Sorry, but you can't apologize to dead people. On the other hand, if those who kill civilians are willing to submit themselves to Palestinian "justice" afterwards, then I'll respect their sacrifice for the good of their nation. But an apology don't count unless your subsequent actions show demonstrable sorrow at your actions.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by The Templar


Easy to say when you are sipping Cuba Libres in Cabo or Tijuana or wherever you are.

And just as easy to do whenever and wherever, cowboy.

Sorry, but you can't apologize to dead people. On the other hand, if those who kill civilians are willing to submit themselves to Palestinian "justice" afterwards, then I'll respect their sacrifice for the good of their nation. But an apology don't count unless your subsequent actions show demonstrable sorrow at your actions.

Sure you can. Doesn't mean you actually mean it, but the world expects a little spin control.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


And just as easy to do whenever and wherever, cowboy.

I live in New York - you know, a place that terrorists actually attacked. How about you come up here and talk about fake apologies to victims - I know just the bar you can give your little speech to, cowboy.

Sure you can. Doesn't mean you actually mean it, but the world expects a little spin control.

Yeah, real cool. I'm sure that's what the *******s who suicide bomb buses are saying to themselves. How about this - the average Israeli and Palestinian just wants to live prosperously in peace. Every time some jackass with an agenda blows up regular people just trying to live in dignity those regular people just get more pissed off. Real smart.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by The Templar
I live in New York - you know, a place that terrorists actually attacked. How about you come up here and talk about fake apologies to victims - I know just the bar you can give your little speech to, cowboy.

And if you're so confused that you can't distinguish between:

A limited strike with collateral casualties of at most a few dozen civilians while taking out the three top leaders of a terrorist organization which has declared itself at war with you permanently for all intents and purposes and dedicated itself to killing hundreds of your civilians;

from a terrorist attack aimed at no military target and intended to cause the highest possible amount of casualties,

then you're not as smart as I thought.

Yeah, real cool. I'm sure that's what the *******s who suicide bomb buses are saying to themselves. How about this - the average Israeli and Palestinian just wants to live prosperously in peace. Every time some jackass with an agenda blows up regular people just trying to live in dignity those regular people just get more pissed off. Real smart.

If the "average Palestinian" wants to "live in peace" why are they actively aiding, abetting and supporting Hamas? How many more people you figure will keep dying because those three *******s managed to survive? The opportunity to take them out all at once may not come again.

[Sirotnikov]

Where did you get the source picture for that russian weasel thing?

I think someone posted it on Poly a while ago, and I liked it and kept it. Then I made an avatar out of it.


Gepap - 2 things.

1st : It isn't the first time Israel refrains itself from using more serious weapons. My point is that we are trying to minimize casualties all the time, but you still criticize us as if we were completely disrespectful and didn't care about the civilians.

The fact is that we do. So much, that when we know we could hit someone, we risk not reaching out goal (the assassination) just so that we won't kill innocent people.

But this all inspite of the fact that we don't have to take this precaution. Rules of warfare allow militaries to attack militants who hide in civilians populations. From what I read it specifically says that it's ok, to prevent the use of human shield as an effective method for defense.

But you and the rest of your commie friends, judge us by different sets of standards.

2nd: A political solution is great... when you are dealing with rational people.

What you don't seem to get, for years now, is that the fanatics are not rational. That's why they are called fanatics. It rhymes with lunatics - on purpose .

You can not and will not have a political solution to terrorism.

The only solutions to terrorism were achieved by brute military force. Syria wiped out a village full of people, and thus destroyed the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria.

The USSR has stopped itself from being a PLO target, by capturing some of their seniours, cutting them into tiny pieces and mailing them to the rest.

Israel has so far not went as far, which is why terrorism persists.

We are still on a journey, seeking for the most decisive action you can take to stop terrorism, without comitting absolute atrocities.

[Zylka]

Siro: where did you get the Russkie Otter?

[axi]

The Israelis are going nuts. Messing with Yassin is a sure way to get busloads of suicide bombers into their territory.

And Siro, your arguments are really frightening. Fighting against terrorism does never justify using terrorist tactics yourself, unless you have no problem of being characterised a terrorist state.

No peace can be brought to the area unless a serious UN peacekeeping force is allowed to intervene. Israel should be under an international embargo, until it permits the international community to enforce peace in the area.

Now you can see why the whole idea of international peacekeeping is problematic. Power politics makes it all futile.

That's a truth that the Palestinians understand very well and that's what's keeping them struggling. They know that if they want freedom, they have to make the Israelis bleed. There is no other option for them. Sad but true.

[The Mad Monk]

Axi:

Syria and Iran are terrorist states. Saudi Arabia is one in all but name. Until recently, what consequences have any of them suffered?

Seriously.

[The Mad Monk]

BTW, what have the UN units in Lebanon done about Hezbollah rocket attacks into northern Israel?

[Zylka]

That's great, we're all sitting around Apolyton OTF taking advice in international politics from a Greek and Communist.

[Zylka]

Noooooo

[Sandman]

The belief that the terrorists can be defeated by military means is one of the main reasons this conflict keep on going.

[Felch]

Originally posted by axi
And Siro, your arguments are really frightening. Fighting against terrorism does never justify using terrorist tactics yourself, unless you have no problem of being characterised a terrorist state.

I say if the other guy is willing to kick me when I'm down, I'm willing to do the same to him. The problem with terrorism isn't that it's terroristic, but that it's against us.

Example:
Nothern Irish terrorism was cute because it was against the hated redcoats. Everytime the IRA bombed the brits I'd think, "That's for Crispus Attucks you damn stamp taxers."

Arabs on the other hand hate America and our vassal/allies. This creates mischief because it makes vassals like Greece want to do silly things such as introduce "a serious UN peacekeeping force," because they are full of silly people who trust the arab lies.

Arabs do lie. You might not have picked up on this because you think that jews drink the blood of Gentiles, and that the Americans have still not gotten into Baghdad, but the arabs that you see on TV are all lying scum. They learned it from us. But sadly, they're not as charming about lying as we are. Sometimes I wish I was back in the 90s and being lied to by a chubby chick banging redneck and not by a skinny camel banging arab, but those are the breaks.

To sum up: Stuff is cute when we do it. Stuff is evil and must be stopped when arabs do it. The difference is in the style and grace of the people engaging in the shenanigans.

Aside from that, phi alpha Israel. You really ****ed up on this one.

[Alexander's Horse]

Israel looks more and more desperate.

[TCO]

On the serious side, I understand the desire to used targeted weaponry to take out the Hammas as opposed to the civilians.

[The diplomat]

----
JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israel ordered a full closure of the West Bank and Gaza, forbidding any Palestinians from entering Israel, after the spiritual leader of Hamas threatened to continue the group's jihad against the Jewish state.
...
----------

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...ast/index.html

[The Mad Monk]

Israel looks more and more desperate.

Fighting for your life does that.

[DanielXY]

Yeah, the Israelis really have a hard time fighting for their live, while the Pals are all evil bastards living it big...

[The Mad Monk]

...before they blow up another busload of schoolchildren.

[GePap]

Siro:

But this all inspite of the fact that we don't have to take this precaution. Rules of warfare allow militaries to attack militants who hide in civilians populations. From what I read it specifically says that it's ok, to prevent the use of human shield as an effective method for defense.

Hidden? How does a 80 year old man in a wheelchair in HIS HOUSE count as hidden? Using human shieds? He happens to live in a residence, which, well , sounds utterly normal. The fact is that under the rules of war you ARE supposed to take rpecautions to minimize civilian casualties, specially in any area full of civilians. So at best you can claim you did follow the rules of war this time: good for you.

The only solutions to terrorism were achieved by brute military force. Syria wiped out a village full of people, and thus destroyed the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria.

The USSR has stopped itself from being a PLO target, by capturing some of their seniours, cutting them into tiny pieces and mailing them to the rest.

Israel has so far not went as far, which is why terrorism persists.

You know, there are plenty of people in the US who state tat the reason the US should hand Israel billions every year is becuase it is the only democracy in the area: now, this little image, which gets you guys billions a year, would really be impossible to contain if yu started acting just like the people you claim to have some srt of moral superiority over.

Second, the analogy is again wrong. The Syrians killed 20,000 Syrian citizens: as sad is is, this maes a difference. Assad was saying: I am the legitimate ruler of Syria: screw with me and die. srael can do the die part fine: it can't ever do the "we are the legitmate rulers of the Occupied territories". If you ated like Syria, all you will get is what Syria has, the need to maintain a poice state. if you ever think of leaving the Occupied Territories, acting like the Syrians is really the last thing you should do.

[Sirotnikov]

The Israelis are going nuts. Messing with Yassin is a sure way to get busloads of suicide bombers into their territory.

As we have wittnessed for the last 10 years, not messing with Yassin is also just as sure a way to get busloads of suicide bombers into Israel. We decided to freshen up out tactics.

And Siro, your arguments are really frightening. Fighting against terrorism does never justify using terrorist tactics yourself, unless you have no problem of being characterised a terrorist state.

I see no terrorist tactics in attacking enemy militant targets, unless you view all militant measures as "terrorism".

Terrorism is a name given to actions whose methodology is targetting innocent civilians, or non-military or non-government targets, and thus indirectly putting pressure on the government, through public fear.

No peace can be brought to the area unless a serious UN peacekeeping force is allowed to intervene.

I would LOL at the words "serious" and "UN peacekeeping force" beeing used together.

Explain how are we to trust any UN force, after in 2000 it idly watched Hezballah kidnap and kill 3 Israeli soldiers, and then served Hezballah vehicles for flat tires in their facility, when the soldiers' bodies were inside.

(if you want a source, search google news or CNN or something. It was a big issue).

Israel should be under an international embargo, until it permits the international community to enforce peace in the area.

The international community has proved it can't inforced anything and is generally useless and too chicken **** of terrorists. Thus Israel would not trust it's civilians in the hands of a UN force.

Might I remind you an article published on Apolyton a month ago, where a UN peacekeeping force in Africa (don't remember where right now) didn't bother to answer urgent calls for resque by UN peacekeeping personell, when a UN helicopter was parked at the capital, 45 minutes away from the scene.

The UN peacekeepers were murdered by a gang of terrorists after recieving threats for a long time. Later the commander of the forces said that the protocols required some local official to authorize a resque mission. Thus the peacekeepers were left to die.

How is anyone supposed to trust the UN???

That's a truth that the Palestinians understand very well and that's what's keeping them struggling. They know that if they want freedom, they have to make the Israelis bleed. There is no other option for them. Sad but true.

And Israelis know that to gain security, they have to make terrorists die. Not so sad. Still true.

[Alexander's Horse]

The news report here says a 250kg bomb was used - hardly seems like a surgical strike.

[Ted Striker]

AH upskirts at church

[Sirotnikov]

Hidden? How does a 80 year old man in a wheelchair in HIS HOUSE count as hidden? Using human shieds? He happens to live in a residence, which, well , sounds utterly normal. The fact is that under the rules of war you ARE supposed to take rpecautions to minimize civilian casualties, specially in any area full of civilians. So at best you can claim you did follow the rules of war this time: good for you.

Incorrect.

The old man is a leader of a widespread militant movement.

He was having a meeting with the top most leaders of the supposed "military wing" in a house of civilian residents. This is a militant planning activity.

Militants are prohibited from running their operations from civilian places, and thus putting civilian population at risk. Not only was this building a civilian home, it was filled with civilians at the time of the military planning activity.

As such it played a double role - both a planning HQ - which is a legitimate target, and a civilian house - which is not.

Military law states that such duality is wrong, and to prevent the abuse of such duality, the law makes this a legitimate target in order to remove a benefit of being untouchable.

And another thing, on the basis of what information did you decide it was his house?

You know, there are plenty of people in the US who state tat the reason the US should hand Israel billions every year is becuase it is the only democracy in the area: now, this little image, which gets you guys billions a year, would really be impossible to contain if yu started acting just like the people you claim to have some srt of moral superiority over.

Methods of military action does not diminish or hurt a status of democracy in a country.

You could claim Israel is less humane or more agressive. But nowhere is there a requirement for Democracies to be humaine or non-agressive.

Second, the analogy is again wrong. The Syrians killed 20,000 Syrian citizens: as sad is is, this maes a difference. Assad was saying: I am the legitimate ruler of Syria: screw with me and die. srael can do the die part fine: it can't ever do the "we are the legitmate rulers of the Occupied territories". If you ated like Syria, all you will get is what Syria has, the need to maintain a poice state. if you ever think of leaving the Occupied Territories, acting like the Syrians is really the last thing you should do.

1st - why no answer to the USSR policy? Can't criticise fellow commies?

Second, I think the rulership bit is irrelevant. The message is and was "Mess with us and you die".

For the last 10 years the Israeli message has been:

"Mess with us, and you might get an autonomy and Israeli and American funds, then some constrained military steps against you which the world will criticize, then European support and funds, and then following public pressure, Israel will unilateraly cave in to your immediate demands".

See my point?

[Sirotnikov]

The news report here says a 250kg bomb was used - hardly seems like a surgical strike.

Well considering that the building did not fell down, only the top floor was hit, the Hamas leadership that was in the stairs room was not hit, and almost no one else was injured - it was a surgical strike.

Furthermore, the weight of the bomb means nothing about the size of the warhead or the scale of the explosion.

[Alexander's Horse]

Oh well that's alright then :rolleyes;

[Ned]

GePap, how can a political solution resolve the issue of Hamas, IJ, and the other terrorist goups? They seem to be fighting against a political solution. In fact, it is very difficult to understand why they are constantly trying to blow up the political process unless they disagree with the stated goals of the process in some fundamental way.