Swedish foreign minister stabbed by knife - Page 6

Chemical Ollie · September 12, 2003, 16:16

They believe the lunatic in Arvika who walked out of a volontary mental clinic, stabbed a 5-year old to death in her kindergarten and walked back to the mental clinic actually was a copy-cat, inspired by the Lindh murder.

Buck Birdseed · September 12, 2003, 16:31

The Psychiatry Reform was carried out by the Bildt government in a mistaken attempt at making institutionalised health care more "liberal". Typical right-wing behaviour.

Chemical Ollie · September 12, 2003, 16:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
The Psychiatry Reform was carried out by the Bildt government in a mistaken attempt at making institutionalised health care more "liberal". Typical right-wing behaviour.

I haven't heard of the details until now, but the treatment methods sounds nothing like a proposal from any conservative party. I would assume it was a compromise to satisfy the social-liberal members of the coalition.

Buck Birdseed · September 12, 2003, 16:42

Actually to be fair it was more or less based on an SOU report, so blame the overzealous scientists who proposed the changes. In Sweden where the Social Democrats are by far the most instiution-bound party I doubt that such a move would be something they'd propose themselves... Can we just blame Folkpartiet and be done with it?

Combat Ingrid · September 12, 2003, 16:42

Typical Swedish politics: the left-wing and right-wing blame it on eachother

Obviously the psychiatry reform was unsuccessful, now just let's get the wackos off the streets until they can behave.

Buck Birdseed · September 12, 2003, 16:48

The thing is, you'll find many of the psychologists who critisise the current state of mental health in Sweden still support the reform. It's just that many of the regions chose to take the opportunity to make underhanded cuts in their mental health budgets as there no longer were any stable, controllable institutions... It would be a strange coincidence indeed if all the attacks that have happened this year (iron pipe beating trolls man, car into crowd voices in head man, cutting pensioners ears off with samurai sword man, etc.) were connected only by their happening nine years after the reform was voted through. Something else must have happened in the meantime that made the frequency rise just now.

Combat Ingrid · September 12, 2003, 16:56

The reform may be old, but as far as I know the mental patients have only recently started to settle in the streets. To be honest, I don't really know more about this than what media has been feeding me, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Buck Birdseed · September 12, 2003, 17:00

We're using the same sources then.

But the question is, why have they only recently settled in the street? Surely the answer muct be budget cuts.

Winston · September 12, 2003, 17:02

Mental health care, psychiatric reforms...

So this wasn't a political assassination?

Buck Birdseed · September 12, 2003, 17:16

Possible but unlikely. Police think that the assailant only saw Anna Lindh outside or at NK and decided to kill her on a whim.

Combat Ingrid · September 12, 2003, 17:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
We're using the same sources then.

But the question is, why have they only recently settled in the street? Surely the answer muct be budget cuts.

Seems like that. Actually, I wasn't even aware this reform was that old. I got the impression it was very new, which would explain why the wackos ended up in the streets just recently.

Well, let's just hope they catch the killer soon.

Chemical Ollie · September 12, 2003, 17:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Winston
Mental health care, psychiatric reforms...

So this wasn't a political assassination?

That would be extremely surprising. The likely procedure was that he was walking around in the mall, saw a famous person and attacked her. He would probably have done the same to a sport star or rock star, it just happened to be a politician. Or perhaps he was bitter at society and would do it to any politician.

I mean, how could he know she was going to be there? She took an hour off to go shopping clothes to wear at the scheduled TV debate later that evening. That wasn't in any official agenda he could had looked up. And the way he did it was nothing like a professional killer would have done. Sure, a pro killer could dress like a bum to confuse the police, but he would make a faster kill and not throw the bloody knife and jacket where the police could find it. Now they have his fingerprints and DNA, so it's only a matter of time before they have him.

Winston · September 12, 2003, 17:30

Four days before a national referendum on a very contested issue for which she was the main proponent? Come on.

I'm reminded of our PM and Foreign minister being assaulted outside a parliamentay meeting by radical socialists following a decision on joining the coalition against Iraq just 6 months ago.

The difference was that red paint was the weapon of choice on that occassion. But we should not forget that people with extremist views and enough built-up hatred will often resort to violence.

Our PM now has round the clock security, which he didn't before Iraq.

Chemical Ollie · September 12, 2003, 17:44

I remember the paint assault on your PM. But that happened outside the parliament, where a polician is expected to pass sooner or later. The socialists just had to wait patiently for the victim. Security cameras revealed that this guy was in the shopping mall long before Anna Lindh arrived. There was no way he could know that she would be there. But sure, he could had been a neo-nazi or anarchist who took the opportunity when it happened to occure.

Winston · September 12, 2003, 17:56

Yes, he took the opportunity once it presented itself, that was my thoughts, Ollie.

I'm stunned by people and the media not focusing more on the obvious - a political motive drove this guy once he spotted her. Otherwise it's the greatest coincidence I've ever heard of, four days before the vote.

She was killed because she was an outspoken proponent of the single currency. And might I add, also quite a controversial political figure, despite the nice words in the papers just now.

Chemical Ollie · September 12, 2003, 18:27

There was nothing controversial about Anna Lindh. Olof Palme was very different. He was arrogant, provoking and radical. You either loved him or hated him. I belonged to those who hated him. A great part of the opposition in Sweden hated him, and numerous foreign governments. He had plenty of international enemies, including but not limited to Saddam Hussein and Ayatolla Khomeini (for trying to stop their war), South Africa (for supporting Nelson Mandela), Pakistan (for selling Bofors guns to India) and USA (for supporting North Vietnam). The list could go on. I saved the newspaper issued the day he was murdered. The big black headlines were "Palme's betrayal to the stock holders". He was controversial indeed.

Anna Lindh was loved by her friends and highly respected, if not loved, by her opponents. I would not had been so upset if any other member of the cabinet had been the victim. I was not so upset when Palme died as I am now. Most members of the cabinet are there not because of their competence, but for their loyalty. Some are there because of their gender, to make the statistics look good to the feminists. I mean, the finance minister did not even finish high school, and the minister of defence has no experience whatsoever of anything "military". Anna Lindh was the only obvious exception. Why her, the only true star among those morons?

I could see a few possible enemies she might have had.

1) Domestic Euro-opposers, most likely neo-nazis, but possibly anarchists or ultra-commies. But none of those groups are normally street junkies.

2) Italian mafia connected to Berlusconi, after her opposition to his politics in EU. But that is far-fetched.

Winston · September 12, 2003, 20:12

She was also the archetype of the all-embracing Socialdemocracy, an 'institution' which a lot of people no doubt are very happy about, while others hate it to no end.

But as I said, I can't see how her murder could not have been connected to this weekend's referendum. It's just too much of a coincidence if it's not.

Buck Birdseed · September 13, 2003, 03:50

Well, of course it is, but that doesn't have to make it politically motivated- She'd been on TV a hell of a lot the weeks before, and made several high-profile statements. A lot of people just opposed her generally with weak political motivation behind it. To go from that to murder, though, would take mental illness of some sort... It was not a political "hit" organised by some group, but a madman who could not differentiate between disliking someone and killing them. Or who thought he was sent by god/säpo/the government/etc. and commanded to kill her.

statusperfect · September 13, 2003, 04:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie 1) Domestic Euro-opposers, most likely neo-nazis, but possibly anarchists or ultra-commies. But none of those groups are normally street junkies.

2) Italian mafia connected to Berlusconi, after her opposition to his politics in EU. But that is far-fetched.

3) Extremist pro-americans (far-fetched but possible)

4) Sionists (far-fetched but possible)

Kropotkin · September 13, 2003, 04:34

I bet he did in an attempt to impress Jodie Foster.

Do anyone but me remember the video from a MUF (?) meeting filmed some time before the murder of Palme? Young brats jumping around to the theme song from Ghostbusters, holding up posters with drawings of a Olof Palme with a huge nose (that does not give very good associations, even if he hade a huge nose) inside a red ring with a red line over. The people that where against Lindh was hardly close to anything like that.

Az · September 13, 2003, 05:19

Quote:

4) Sionists (far-fetched but possible)

you'll be surprised.

Buck Birdseed · September 13, 2003, 05:21

Now wait a minute! According to these reliable Neo-Nazi sources I've read, Anna Lindh was part of the ZOG.

Az · September 13, 2003, 05:25

Just goes to shows you that noone gets to doublecross us, and live.

statusperfect · September 13, 2003, 05:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Now wait a minute! According to these reliable Neo-Nazi sources I've read, Anna Lindh was part of the ZOG.

And one of the world greatest critics of Isreals policies towards palestiniens.

Az · September 13, 2003, 06:17

hey, wasn't she the one that said that Israel had to be expelled from the family of nations or something?

Bereta_Eder · September 13, 2003, 06:23

Could be some wako who could have picked whatever reason was there at this period like the euro referendum.

Apparently Lindh had a good time with our foreign minister. Good time as in lots of laughs etc. There were some videos with both of them discussing and laughing and generally be happy. Who said diplomacy must be a drag?
She seemed a happy person.

Bereta_Eder · September 13, 2003, 06:30

Of course if it turns out it was planned and organised by any group it becomes much more serious.

Chemical Ollie · September 13, 2003, 15:54

Here's our guy. The police has reversed from the street-junkie theory, he might be anybody.

His long hair is not what you would expect for a neo-nazi skinhead, but he could be an ex-skin who have grown his hair now that he has grown older. The hooded jacket is popular among anarchists and ultra-commies, but the Nike logo printed on it speaks against that. On the other hand, those punks are often contradictionary in the sense that they talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

A disturbing detail is that a knife of the type that was used in the assault was stolen from the Claes Olsson store right across the street the same afternoon. There just seem to be some co-incidences to support the conspiration theory.

Chemical Ollie · September 13, 2003, 15:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Kropotkin

Do anyone but me remember the video from a MUF (?) meeting filmed some time before the murder of Palme? Young brats jumping around to the theme song from Ghostbusters, holding up posters with drawings of a Olof Palme with a huge nose (that does not give very good associations, even if he hade a huge nose) inside a red ring with a red line over. The people that where against Lindh was hardly close to anything like that.

I had a badge with that symbol until it fell of my jacket when I was drunk. Me and my buddies also sing drinking songs about "Olof Palme gick på bio" at some parties. Two years ago (3 days before 9/11) , I was at the same crayfish party as health minister Morgan Johansson. We had a real dispute over the song lyrics, I can assure you! But we left as friends.

Chemical Ollie · September 13, 2003, 19:03

Aargh - more support for the professional killer theory!

1) The knife that has been confirmed to be the murder weapon had no fingerprints or traces from the killer of any kind.

2) The knife was rotated inside her belly to do as much damage as possible, like soldiers are trained to do when using bayonettes in hand to hand combat. While most of the male population in Sweden has gone trough that training in theory, very few has been issued a bayonette and done the actual stab excercise (to minimise mis-use and training accidents)

Source: Aftonbladet