Pray all you want, but

Berzerker · September 10, 2003, 21:52

it won't do any good if you leave your brain sitting in the pews.

Case in point: recently NE Kansas was hit by a flurry of thunderstorms and flash floods. Several people drowned along a stretch of I-35 (the Kansas Turnpike), but the unfortunate reality is that a woman and her 3 (or4?) children who drowned didn't have to die. Before their minivan was swept from the road, the husband, wife, and children were in the van as the waters rose when a man tapped on the window offering assistance. The husband declined the offer telling the rescuer they'd pray instead.

FOR WHAT? HELP? The man was there to HELP!!!

Contrast that with another motorist trapped in the rising waters. An elderly woman - 79 years old - was assisted by another man (who ended up drowning himself helping others) and brought to safety. She prayed too, and behold, her prayer was heard and she was brought to safety.

You know, with all the people who die in this world every day, I just can't muster much sympathy for imbeciles who die because of their own stupidity, but far too often, they end up taking others with them. These children died because their parents left their brains at church...

During a press conference, the praying husband who did eventually escape the minivan while his family did not, lamented the incident adding that he hoped something good would come from the tragedy. Yeah, the next time you're in trouble use the brain God gave you!

David Floyd · September 10, 2003, 21:58

This should be submitted to the Darwin Awards

MrFun · September 10, 2003, 22:05

That is very sad -- tragic.

Odin · September 10, 2003, 22:12

Berz isn't trolling for once.

This is sad though.

molly bloom · September 10, 2003, 22:20

Wasn't it Hannibal Lecter who amused himself by reading accounts of congregations killed in churches during natural disasters?

Spiffor · September 10, 2003, 22:23

Big

to the parents. When in danger, save your life. Do your prayers later, when you have time

Berzerker · September 10, 2003, 22:30

That was part of George Carlin's routine, but Molly, this wasn't about a tornado hitting a church on Sunday, it was quite avoidable. And aside from David's comment about the Darwin Awards (obviously only applicable to the adults), who is "amused"?

David Floyd · September 10, 2003, 22:31

This isn't amusing at all, it really is tragic.

It's also ridiculous to the point of humorous, if you ignore the fact that people died.

The Emperor Fabulous · September 10, 2003, 22:58

Quote:

Originally posted by molly bloom
Wasn't it Hannibal Lecter who amused himself by reading accounts of congregations killed in churches during natural disasters?

Quote:

That was part of George Carlin's routine

George Carlin confused with Hannibal Lecter...he often deserves it

DaShi · September 11, 2003, 01:44

This year I knew of two people who drowned saving someone else.

alva · September 11, 2003, 01:56

How exactly was the ~~arseho~~ man saved and why not his family???

Sirotnikov · September 11, 2003, 02:18

Erm... well... this only reminds me of a mind strikingly similar joke.

During a flood a religious jew refused to evacuate his house when the police came. "I will pray to God and He will rescue me" he replied, and locked himself inside.

As the water levels rose, and the water covered the first floor of the house, a group of rescuers reached his window by boat and offered to save him. "No need. I will pray to God and He will rescue me" he replied again, and closed the window.

After the water levels began reached the top floor, the religious jew went on top of the roof. A group of rescuers on a helicopter arrived to offer him assistance. "No, go away. I am praying to God and I am positive he will save me" replied the religious jew again, and declined their offer of help.

Finally the water level rose and the jew drowned and went to heaven. When he reached heaven, he walked towards God and asked: "Tell me, I've been a worshipper and a just man all of my life. I've followed all the laws, did good deeds, and celebrated my faith in you. In this one time I put my life in your hands, and rely on your heavenly assistance, and you let me die like that? What's that all about?"

"Hey look - you have free will." God answered him. "At first I sent you warning with the police which you ignored, then I sent the boat to recover you, but you declined. When you finally turned down the helicpoter I sent for you, I thought you were a lost case."

Dr. A. Cula · September 11, 2003, 03:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Erm... well... this only reminds me of a mind strikingly similar joke.

During a flood a religious jew refused to evacuate his house when the police came. "I will pray to God and He will rescue me" he replied, and locked himself inside.

.....

Always a good joke. I think I'll see some more of that in the next few days, as the forecast said to expect some floods here as well, especially with this city's faulty sewers.

Urban Ranger · September 11, 2003, 05:29

Siro,

My thoughts exactly (except replace all instances of "Jew" with "Christian.")

DaShi · September 11, 2003, 19:49

I guess you gotta hate someone.

SlowwHand · September 11, 2003, 20:05

Once again, a case where Man doesn't use that which separates him from other animals, logic and reasoning.
God's just sitting there saying, "Mmm mmm mmm".

Lincoln · September 11, 2003, 20:07

I think I would have a hard time saving myself and knowing my kids were in there. Maybe the man was swept out of the car and couldn't return but he has some explaining to do as far as I am concerned. But, this story reminds me of an incident over the Rock Mountains when an airplane was having engine problems and was heading down. The pilot asked the co-pilot to do something and he noticed he was praying. Anyway they made it back safely. When I was told this story by the chief pilot of the company we worked for I said; "Well maybe his prayers were answered??" He said he hadn't thought of that.

Berzerker · September 11, 2003, 20:11

Quote:

The pilot asked the co-pilot to do something and he noticed he was praying. Anyway they made it back safely. When I was told this story by the chief pilot of the company we worked for I said; "Well maybe his prayers were answered??" He said he hadn't thought of that.

I'd put my money on the pilot who was trying to fly the plane, if I'm under the knife I don't want to look up and see my doctor praying.

SlowwHand · September 11, 2003, 20:11

You assume he would save only himself.
No effort was made, of any kind.

What's his life insurance situation ?

LordVipper · September 11, 2003, 20:15

Impressive.I dont think i can feel sorry for someone like that the fault was all his own.

Boris Godunov · September 11, 2003, 20:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Lincoln
The pilot asked the co-pilot to do something and he noticed he was praying. Anyway they made it back safely. When I was told this story by the chief pilot of the company we worked for I said; "Well maybe his prayers were answered??" He said he hadn't thought of that.

I guess the folks on TWA 800, AA 273, AA 265, etc. just didn't pray hard enough, huh?

This man should be charged with reckless endangerment and manslaughter. His kids would be alive had he had a ****ing clue!

JohnT · September 11, 2003, 20:50

Actually, Hannibal Lector collected newspaper articles about disasters that happened to full churches. So he wasn't mistaken for Carlin... they just have the same interests.

Imran Siddiqui · September 11, 2003, 20:52

If I was a Prosecutor I'd nail this moron's ass, no doubt. There was no criminal intent, so involuntary manslaughter would have to apply. Unfortunetly he'd get peanuts for this.

molly bloom · September 11, 2003, 21:33

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnT
Actually, Hannibal Lector collected newspaper articles about disasters that happened to full churches. So he wasn't mistaken for Carlin... they just have the same interests.

I knew it rang a bell. But I was also reminded of Voltaire, too...

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/voltvern.htm

I have no idea who George Carlin is.

And Berzerker- unknot your knickers fer crissakes, I wasn't accusing you of deriving enjoyment from the demise of the children. I'm just glad to see you support the right of someone to hold to their faith- even when it means the death of others.

Lincoln · September 11, 2003, 21:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

I guess the folks on TWA 800, AA 273, AA 265, etc. just didn't pray hard enough, huh?

I don't remember saying or implying that. Nor did I say that the co-pilot's prayers were answered. I repeated a story told to me. Sometimes the answer to prayer is no.

Boris Godunov · September 11, 2003, 21:51

Which would still beg the question as to why certain individual's prayers are meriting a "yes," and certain a "no," especially when the lives of possibly hundreds of others are also in the balance. I'd like to think any answerer of prayers wouldn't be so arbitrary...

Lincoln · September 11, 2003, 22:02

Well I have never though of God as a genie who must give us everything we want. i don't think that anyone, for example, wants their mother to die and I would suppose that most people who believe in God would pray that she would not die. But all those prayers are obviously not answered. That does not make God cruel. Death and suffering are part of this life. There is no promise that God will keep everyone alive.

Boris Godunov · September 11, 2003, 22:05

Even if I were a theist, I'd have a hard time believing God answers any prayers. What's willed is willed, and the omnipotent, omniscient creator of everything is both incapable of changing its mind, and also has no interest in playing favorites with its beings.

Lincoln · September 11, 2003, 22:12

Well actually I agree with you to some extent. I am pretty much a fatalist myself.

Berzerker · September 11, 2003, 22:16

Molly -

Quote:

And Berzerker- unknot your knickers fer crissakes, I wasn't accusing you of deriving enjoyment from the demise of the children. I'm just glad to see you support the right of someone to hold to their faith- even when it means the death of others.

Molly, you accused someone of deriving amusement from this incident and I asked who you were targeting with that accusation - and you still haven't answered (how brave). And given that last bit about me supporting a right to have faith even when it kills others is just as idiotic as your first accusation (I see you don't use quotes, what a surprise) - just go away and take your bullsh!t with you.