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Old May 16, 2000, 22:50   #1
Curumbor Elendil
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Scenario: Somalian Civil War
I decided to turn some of my academic research into a few hours of fun and have created what should be a meticulously historically accurate scenario of the Somalian civil war, 1991-2000. Play any one of the warlords and try to consolidate Somalia under your control while fighting or pleading off the UN.

Download the scenario here. I welcome any and all comments on the gameplay. Requires FW or MGE (includes events.txt and new units and terrain). Also check out my other scenarios here.

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Old May 16, 2000, 23:47   #2
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I am downloading your scenario right now... I payed a visit to your website and I must say that I was pleased with what I saw.
 
Old May 17, 2000, 16:59   #3
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Sounds like a fun one. Your first scenario wasn't bad and so I hope that your latest creation will be a great one

Folks, hope you'll take the time to (a) review some of the scenarios we have posted, and (b) help this brave young (?) designer improve his work by commenting on his latest.
 
Old May 17, 2000, 17:04   #4
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Blackclove: I didn't know anyone here had looked at my previous scenarios. I remember submitting one to Scenario League a few months back but never hearing again about it. I don't know if the new one is "great." I'm not the best artist in the world. But I've had fun playing it.

As for young...I guess it's relative. I'm a married grad student, which sometimes makes me feel like an old fart when I'm arranging games with high school guys. But inexperienced, yes: I am but a casual scenario designer. Once Civ3 comes out, I hope to be more active.

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Old May 17, 2000, 17:12   #5
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Well, I think there's a review or two of Rising of the Celts on our web site. Maybe I shouldn't tell you that - I don't want you to get discouraged and quit in protest .

I'm also a grad student, BTW - or will be for a few more months, then I'm going to be a professor. I have a job lined up if I can only get that PhD completed! Not married yet... but close to it.
 
Old May 17, 2000, 17:23   #6
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Ah, you're one of the lucky ones then (to have a job lined up)! I've just finished my second year so am about to embark on the thesis.

Er, yeah, the review of "Rising" was pretty harsh! That's OK, though. It is actually a very old scenario: I created it about 3 years ago, before I got MGE/FW. And I was also very uncomfortable with my artistic skills, so yes, no new units, not very original. I must register disagreement with the assertion that it is unplayable because of the small shield counts in, say, the Scots' home cities. That's part of the challenge! The Scots absolutely must capture Glasgow and Edinburgh on the first turn and move from there. The negotiations thing is a problem, which I have fixed. And the existence of archaic units is supposed to represent the fact that the Scots and Welsh rebels would be buying their arms on global black markets from places like Iran. We're not talking state-of-the-art militaries here. But the scenario is worth working on some more now that I have more skills. Oh, BTW, the reviewer seemed to assume that I had gotten the map of Britain somewhere. I made it. IMO, it's the best map of Britain out there, certainly better than the one that comes with the 1066 scenario.

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Old May 17, 2000, 17:54   #7
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Argh, OK, no one else download the Somalian Civil War scenario just yet. It will be optimized soon.

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Old May 17, 2000, 18:17   #8
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Stop including the damned .bak files!!!!!
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Old May 17, 2000, 20:16   #9
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That's one of the things I'm changing.

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Old May 17, 2000, 20:40   #10
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OK, I've finished tweaking the scenario. Download it here.

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Old May 17, 2000, 21:25   #11
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Hey, it's good to see some fellow graduate students on this forum as well. . I will be a graduate student until Saturday, when I get TWO Masters degrees -- one in Middle Eastern Studies and another in Public Policy.

Turned in my thesis to the deities of the University a couple weeks ago. :-) For those who are still plodding away, just keep at it. Now to find a job.

Anyhow, I completed my thesis on Syrian-Lebanese relations and it made me think about somehow trying to write a scenario on the Lebanese Civil War. Trouble is, there were like 31 different militia groups at one time, in addition to Israelis, Syrians, etc.!!! Not even the AI could handle it! Maybe to streamline.

Another idea I had recently was the Chinese Civil war of the 1920's to 1940's.

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Old May 17, 2000, 22:34   #12
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Hey, I once considered doing a Lebanese Civil War scenario too! Technically, the Somalian Civil War involves dozens of militias too, but you can always consolidate. For the Lebanese scenario, I imagine you could have the Maronites, Druze, Sunnis, Shiites, Syrians (perhaps allied to the Shiites), and maybe Israelites. Most militias seemed to break down into those alliance blocs, right?

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Old May 17, 2000, 23:03   #13
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Curumbor-

Ahh... well... did they all fall into those blocs, kinda, sort of. Deal was, though, that it was more a war based local immediate reward more than denomination/sect. For example, in the "wars for the camps" of the early 1980s, Arafat's Fatah "conquest" faction Palestinians fought against Syrian-backed Saiqa "lightning" groups. As far as the Shi'a, the Amal were more a pro-Syrian group aimed at the notion of the Lebanee nation, while the Hezbollah were Iranian-backed--more pan-Islamist. Two Maronite groups -- Michael Aoun's Lebanese forces and Samir Jeajea's militia, contended in the early 1990s.

Suffice to say the whole thing was a damned complicated and bloody affair, and as I write this, I'm considering what could be written as an oversimplified scenario trading off with my own punctillious sense of history. I would need a lot of deliberation before coming up with an accurate, scenario-friendly depiction of the groups during the whole war from 1976-1990. If you're interested in the affair (and find the time), I strongly recommend British journalist Robert Fisk's "Pity the Nation."

Perhaps a better setting for a scenario in the area would be the Druze revolt of 1925. What's that, you may ask? Well, I read about this in my thesis research. In 1925, the Druze were split into the French mandates of Lebanon and the statelet of Jabal Druze (later incorporated into Syria). For a variety of reasons, they were really peeved and sparked an uprising against the French. Eventually, the revolt spread into Lebanon and threatened Beirut itself, while the French and their Maronite allies struggled to stop the invaders. Eventually, the Druze were stopped, but held out for a while.

You could have as civs:

Druze: Partisan-types, raiders
French: Strong European troops but not many
Maronites: Strong fighters
Sunni Muslims: Neutral

Maybe a few more as well. A.H. Hourani's "Syria and Lebanon: A History," has good info on this episode. Anyhow, just a thought.
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Old May 18, 2000, 01:38   #14
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A Somalian civil war scenario, sounds interesting. I heard right now theres a war somewhere in Africa with both sides using WWII tanks and aircrafts. Might make for an interesing scenario later on. Downloading your scenario and checking out your site. Looks good. Get back to ya about the scenario after I try it. Also, your a Warlord? I've never seen ya around before. You been away for awhile. later

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Old May 18, 2000, 15:04   #15
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Downloaded the new Somalia, but haven't tried it yet. Will soon, though. I love Africa.

With respect to the Middle East, could you represent some of the less important militias as "computer-only" tribes that never come into conflict with one another? Some of them could also be barbarians if they don't attack much.
 
Old May 18, 2000, 19:25   #16
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Yeah, the weaponry in the Somalian civil war is fairly primitive. Tanks are rare and highly prized. Apparently there has been some naval bombardment, but I don't think aircraft have been used at all. The main tools of assault are artillery and four wheel drive vehicles outfitted with machine guns and rocket launchers they call "technicals."

I hang out pretty much exclusively on the Multiplayer and Gameleague fora, hence the Warlord rating.

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Old May 18, 2000, 20:35   #17
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Maybe you should have UN peacekeepers?

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Old May 18, 2000, 23:11   #18
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Yes, there is a Peacekeepers unit, available only to the UN, and an Aid Worker unit (which performs espionage functions).

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Old May 18, 2000, 23:42   #19
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I downloaded your scenario the other day and have troubles loading the scenario. I read you can play on FW and MPG, but it won't load with my FW. I tried using Angello's MPG convertor to the scenario but it didn't reconize the scenario. Also I believe its the new one as theres no back up files. I checked with the units.bmp and terrian.bmp and saw only one new unit? Is this the right scenario?
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Old May 19, 2000, 10:03   #20
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It was created with MGE, so perhaps it does not work with FW. I think there is only one additional unit space taken, but some of the old units have been converted to new ones. I'm not sure why it's not working for you.

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Old May 20, 2000, 18:21   #21
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Scenarios created with FW can be played with MGE, but not vice versa.
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Old May 21, 2000, 08:44   #22
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...but if you use Angelo Scotto's MGEConverter you can play some of them on FW. The program seemed to work for me for Somalia but it crashed out on the first turn, so I suspect MGEConverter couldn't handle it. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

MGEConverter is available for download off of SLeague's front page.
 
Old May 21, 2000, 10:25   #23
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Not wishing to detract from the topic and yet doing so - Jason, I think you have legitimate grounds for a re-review as per sleague.apolyton.net/Features/newpolicy.shtml given that many of Kevin's complaints were seemingly not valid if "Rising of the Celts" was put together pre-FW (although it does look like a frightening number of starting cities!). Mark Laanan's proposed process might be a little bureaucratic, but still, if the review bothers you - please advise! Then again, Kevin might want to consider re-scoring the review?

Back to Somalia...
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Old May 21, 2000, 13:49   #24
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FW is cheap now since it's been out for a couple of years.
It's only like $7.00
Pick it up at EB or Babbages.
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Old May 21, 2000, 20:15   #25
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quote:

Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 05-21-2000 12:44 PM
The reason for the huge number of cities is that I figure it's not worthwhile wasting space on the map, especially in a long scenario in which players might settle those spaces. Is there any particular problem for gameplay with so many cities?



This is a personal one for me, but I'm always a bit wary of scenarios that have more than about 70 starting cities in total, as micro-management gets somewhat tedious (that's "a sweeper" I admit, as there are some good games that start with lots of cities {'Red Front' springs to mind}). Games with zillions of cities do run the risk of becoming a drawn out process of churning out tons of units and initiating mass attacks, with little emphasis on well-considered strategy. Some players become quickly bored if the start is too unwieldy and does not promise to improve. It's just my opinion mind...

If you're particularly worried about 'sleaze', use low-yielding terrains such as desert and/or jungle and rename it/them (e.g. to 'marshes') and use alternate graphics. The AI will not settle on these terrain types and if the human player does, they will have a hard time of making these new cities productive.

Sorry, back to Somalia....
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Old May 22, 2000, 00:27   #26
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ALL RIGHT!!!

I'm not the ONLY Apolytoner from CT.

Sounds like a very interesting scenario.
Not too many Africa based scenarios out there today.

I'll DL it now and see what it's like.

You might also be interested in the 3rd Scenario Design Contest. Check it out at HAC and Scenario League.
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Old May 22, 2000, 00:44   #27
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Cam--I don't really care that much. I do plan to update the scenario. Actually, I think the scenario that he reviewed included a few experimental updates that use FW-type features (like an events.txt). I plan to make a 2.0 scenario. The reason for the huge number of cities is that I figure it's not worthwhile wasting space on the map, especially in a long scenario in which players might settle those spaces. Is there any particular problem for gameplay with so many cities? In my many playtests it didn't seem too much of a problem if you're just playing the AI.

This FW-MGE incompatibility really irks me. I never purchased FW because MGE was supposed to include all FW features. Come to find out that AI acts differently in MGE (much more aggressive), and now for some reason scenarios made with MGE are incompatible with FW. Guess I need to shell out for FW.

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Old May 23, 2000, 17:41   #28
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Finished playing as the RRA just a little while ago.

A very nice scenario indeed. Good city locations and accurate objectives. Nice unit placement.

My recommendations: Edit your diplomacy. I was able to make peace with everyone the first turn.
Convert the files to gif format to save space.
Terrain can use a little improvement but I peronally think it's good enough. You could always add in things like dunes and beaches, more desert type terrains.
Need more units, just not enough of a new selection to make this seem like Somalia. It still feels like civ2, wheras it should feel like your in Somaliland. Use some of the units from the Desert Lion scenario.

Overall a very good scenario indeed. Keep up the good work.
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Old May 23, 2000, 20:44   #29
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quote:

Originally posted by WarVoid on 05-23-2000 05:41 PM
Finished playing as the RRA just a little while ago.

A very nice scenario indeed. Good city locations and accurate objectives. Nice unit placement.

My recommendations: Edit your diplomacy. I was able to make peace with everyone the first turn.



I can prevent peacemaking on the first turn, but I do not want to eliminate diplomacy altogether, because the historical fact of the Somalian civil war has been the making and breaking of numerous ceasefires, peace agreements, and even alliances, which dovetails nicely with the usual sort of outcome under the MGE AI. Also, if you play the scenario to win, i.e., to conquer all of Somalia, you do not really want to make peace the first turn. (The RRA are not recommended for play, as their historical purpose was not to gain control of the Somali state, but to defend a particular clan's holdings.)

quote:


Convert the files to gif format to save space.



Hadn't thought about that, I'll give it a try. (As a rookie Civ artist, I edit everything in the packaged scenario editor, not in an image-editing program.)

quote:


Need more units, just not enough of a new selection to make this seem like Somalia. It still feels like civ2, wheras it should feel like your in Somaliland. Use some of the units from the Desert Lion scenario.



Yeah, I need to do more research and get some new ideas. Actually, I think a lot of it will involve redrawing and renaming a bunch of already existing units, like partisans, artillery, etc.


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Old May 24, 2000, 06:44   #30
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quote:

Originally posted by WarVoid on 05-23-2000 05:41 PM
Convert the files to gif format to save space.


Actually, using bitmaps is much better. Bitmap files are indeed a lot bigger than GIF's, but bitmaps tend to compress a lot more when packed into a ZIP. So when you want a quicker download, it's recommended you use bitmaps; when you want to spare the harddrive, use GIF's.

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