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Old October 1, 2003, 20:53   #31
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After the first round of trait wars, I later got much happier with the benefits of MIL, and value it more highly than I once did. Cheap barracks (10 friggin' shields is basically FREE) and, yes, cheap harbors for archipelagos and IC invasions, are awesome.

Back OT:

This game, btw, is a blast. The successive choke points, and the location of resources and luxuries (as in the luxes I have, fur and incense, are NOT in patches, but most of the others are), and the lack of rivers in the core are REALLY interesting to play. The terrain, along with being forced to use slowmovers, adds to challenge. Good AI civs too... think about it: Zulus are closest, which is appropriate; Persia next, which is threatening; and Babylon furthest, which gives Hammy time to become a threat.

I didn't do a hundred Warriors... I did about 60. Upgraded to Swords at full price, and am hoping to snag Leo's after that.

Back to Arrian's last post, not being MIL in a game like this SUCKS!!

Anyway, it is loads'o fun. And I haven't gotten to Mil Trad yet... I anticipate that IC invasions with the Ottomans will be a strong contender compared with my recent fav, the Scandinavians.
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Old October 2, 2003, 00:11   #32
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You're playing with AP on, Theseus? Barracks cost 20 Shields for Militaristic civs in the standard game...


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Old October 2, 2003, 04:50   #33
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I start new games all the time. It just becomes too boring after a while. There are LOADS of started and never ended games in my directories. But as Ming would say: Every game will be continued, eventually
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Old October 2, 2003, 07:56   #34
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Sorry, I mis-wrote... 20 shields for Barrracks... but that is STILL almost free.
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Old October 2, 2003, 08:31   #35
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Nothing compared to the boni for religious/scientific civs anyway
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Old October 2, 2003, 12:48   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Theseus
Sorry, I mis-wrote... 20 shields for Barrracks... but that is STILL almost free.
Hmm. Aren't you the Ottomans? Unless my brain is completely malfunctioning, they're not militaristic. Ind and Sci, right? You're paying 40 for those barracks.

(Great game: You must be producing a heck of a lot of shields not to be noticing that!!)
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Old October 2, 2003, 19:43   #37
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Tall Stranger, that was an off-topic comment by Theseus. If you notice, a little farther down in the same post, he bemoans not being militaristic in the current game.
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Old October 2, 2003, 21:31   #38
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Thanks for the clarification, Solomwi... I actually used a GL for Sun Tzu, which I very much dislike to do, to make up for not being MIL in this game.
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Old October 2, 2003, 21:38   #39
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Now, to actually add something useful to the thread: I finally got a game underway and into the Industrial Age, playing Monarch, Huge, Continents, 60% Water. I'd been wanting to branch out from the Industrious/Religious rut I'd been in, and having a taste of Militaristic in my last game (Celts), decided to go with Germany.

I now love Germany. This is the first game I've really been able to appreciate Scientific, especially with a couple of Sci neighbors for the new-era trade. The cheap barracks can be mind-blowing, and a real boon to an ultra-early military, but I'm liking the cheap harbors almost as much, especially for colonizing the tundra north of Berlin. Though it's tough to get 80 shields out of a new tundra city, a harbor and library in each (thank you, gold-rushing) for that price is a godsend. Add to that being able to get a settler out fairly quickly due to the harbor, and it gets even better. Start throwing up some 100-shield universities in the Medieval Age, and it's a recipe for vaulting into the tech lead.

I found myself in the northwest of one continent and quickly discovered the Ottomans to my south and Vikings to my east, both fairly tight. Not long afterward I discovered the Aztecs south of Scandinavia and the Chinese on the far south of the continent. Perfect, four neighbors, only one Exp and one other Sci. Obviously, four of the five of us were Mil, so this map had the makings of a VERY fun game. In 1100 BC, I attacked the Ottomans for a little pruning, and looking for a decent FP site. They pulled the Vikes and Aztecs into it in 1050, so I got the Chinese on my side. 300 years later, I'm at total peace, with Edrine, Istanbul and Literature and 171 gold from the three peace treaties.

Fast forward to 210 AD and I declare war on the Vikings (more pruning action), this time in Republic. I immediately take a couple of cities. Next turn, I'm back at war with the Ottomans, too. The turn after that, China joins the evil Vikings against me. The only actual fighting I'd do with them in the end was sinking one galley in the South China Sea. A couple of razed Ottoman towns later, Osman's giving me Iznik and all his gold for peace. With 8 captured Viking cities by 550 (including Trondheim and Oslo), I get Hareid and Stavanger for peace. The first Pax Germania lasts almost 500 years, right up to 1000 AD when I upgrade to Cavs.

Seeing the Ottomans stuck on Chemistry, I decide to go ahead and take them out, declaring war in 1020 and taking or razing 12 villages in the next 5o years (5 turns). In 1090, the Aztecs declare war out of the blue. I get the Vikings in on my side, just to avoid a two front war. China decides to sit this one out. In 1140, the last Ottoman town becomes German and in 1220 the same happens to the Aztecs. It's now 1440 and the Aztecs have had a settler in a boat this whole time. With no interest in pursuing them, I make peace once the alliance runs out. In a moment of stupidity, I just traded them Astronomy last turn.

Now I'm 5 turns away from tanks, and eyeing the Chinese. I'm tempted to wipe out the Vikings, and might do it any turn now, since they're no good as a customer, but no real threat either, but have enough Cavs to handle that within a couple of turns, especially since they're are still working on Chemistry.

Before doing the continental control thing, though, my mouth is really watering looking to the west. The Russians (brown) and Egyptians (yellow) share the main continent, but the Zulu (black) have a good sized island (14 loosely spaced cities) to themselves. This island also happens to have the entire world's supply of wines, a coal source, a rubber source and two oil sources. Oh, and the Zulu have just entered Industrial. I may break my Marine production record in anticipation of this invasion. I'm already gathering my transports in my closest port, which puts 5 Zulu cities within a 3-turn striking distance once I'm all loaded. This could be the amphibious invasion to end them all.

I've got to say four Mil civs, with me being one of them, on one land mass has been one of the more fun games I've ever had.
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Old October 2, 2003, 21:39   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solomwi
Tall Stranger, that was an off-topic comment by Theseus. If you notice, a little farther down in the same post, he bemoans not being militaristic in the current game.
DOH! My brain was malfunctioning after all, just in a way I hadn't expected!!!

Some days, it doesn't pay to get out of bed. Unfortunately, I'm having about a month of those days!
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Old October 2, 2003, 22:50   #41
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Wow, just wow. One more reason to love Mil. I am currently playing 1445 AD from the game described above, and did declare war on the Vikes. Already this turn I've gotten three leaders, two on back to back battles at the same town! Add that to the army my MA is going to spit out turn after next, and my future military adventures just got a huge boost.
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Old October 22, 2003, 09:28   #42
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Theseus,
I just finished your game. Wow, what a play! A real crazy game...
Well, if you want to 'hear' more about it, I will start posting it on my 'Emperor games' thread.

P.S. Theseus, sorry for this, but I think I'm good at marketing my threads.
BTW, by doing this, I also *bumped* your thread.
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Old October 26, 2003, 10:57   #43
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Cool!!

I've been WAAAY distracted by RL, and need to catch up on the various DG and AU games... I'll then get back to this one, which I knew would be loads'o fun.
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Old October 27, 2003, 00:15   #44
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Solomwi, sounded like an awesome game! How did it eventually turn out? Did you do a large amphibious invasion?
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Old October 27, 2003, 00:56   #45
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Solomwi, which game were you playing?
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Old October 27, 2003, 13:53   #46
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Quote:
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Solomwi, which game were you playing?
Yeah I am wondering how his turned out and if he finished it. That was an interesting map and story he had going there.

Off subject, I have really got to get an expansion here. Looking at all of the buttons on his screen makes me wonder why I never got PtW. I should have never listened to those complainers when it was first released. Now that I did, the good thing is I can just get C3C and have PtW features. It still don't make up for all of the time I been playing vanilla CIV3 when I could have been playing an obviously improved PtW.
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Old October 27, 2003, 23:08   #47
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I won a cultural victory in 1752, three turns before finishing the spaceship.

I did launch a massive attack on China, which occupied the bottom third or so of my continent. I had by that time occupied all former Ottoman, Viking and Aztec lands. The Zulu had a decent sized island to themselves with all the wines, so I used them as a tuneup for China, launching five amphibious fleets against their five southern coastal cities simultaneously, then pushing north until I had the whole island.

A vital part of my attack on China was Operation Vulcan, an amphibious invasion aimed at resource denial (rubber in particular) on New Canton, which was in a bay on China's southern coast (IOW, I had to sneak the fleet into striking distance, which took about 5 turns, while making sure peace was kept). Simultaneously with the capture of New Canton, and a Panzer thrust north that netted one more metro, my Cavs and Panzers poured across our common border on China's north in Operation Frazier (trying to deliver an opening round knockout blow).

Both were successful, but Mao had 105 Infantry units when the war started (1600), so it wasn't easy. Operations Vulcan and Frazier, btw, knocked that number down to 60 units at the end of the first turn. The two operations also took all of China's oil, rubber, uranium, saltpeter and iron, as they were designed to do. They tried to mount a counterattack or two, but were throwing Cavs against MI's for the most part. It ended in 1635, with China reduced to some remote island settlements and a Vietnam-shaped string of coastal towns on the other continent. In the peace, I got one town in the Antarctic region of the other continent (which, incidentally, inspired "The Barbarossa Incident" over in the stories forum) for its dyes, and several worthless towns on a small island with the only two Zulu towns left (promptly gave those to the Zulu, too).

It was one of the more epic wars I've undertaken, but the opening round success of my carefully planned attacks made the outcome academic quickly. Clearing them from the continent was still tough and took careful planning, though, to minimize WW and not leave any undefended culture gaps (they were almost totally railroaded). I'm sure I've still got a pre-invasion save, if anybody wants to experience that war machine in action for themselves.

I think this screenshot's in another thread, but just in case, here's the after shot of Operation Vulcan. By the end of the turn, Frazier had broken all the way through to Chengdu, so none of my forces were cut off from reinforcements.
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Old October 27, 2003, 23:21   #48
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Oh, I forgot to add that the war with China, as it was planned and executed, would not have been possible with Tanks. Panzers are officially my favorite UU now, though I see mucho potential in Berserks (the one time I played Scandy, I didn't know how to use them properly).

Viva la Panzer!

Hmmm, there's got to be something just fundamentally wrong with that sentence.
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Old October 28, 2003, 00:22   #49
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Laudare Athanatoi!! Something wrong with that too.

[Ancient language challenge, for those interested... )

Solomwi, I still can't tell or remember... was that the game I started?
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Old October 28, 2003, 00:36   #50
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Ahhh, now your question makes sense. No, this was a purely homegrown game that I just started talking about to avoid being completely off topic (stretching the topic to be "new games started for the first time in forever"), and because I became so enamored with Germany that I just had to share.

Athanatoi or Athenameton?

If it's what I suspect, not nearly as much is wrong, seeing how much the later culture drew from the earlier (don't want to give it away for any interested).
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