The Pope is dying

Saint Marcus · October 5, 2003, 08:12

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - A senior European cardinal says Pope John Paul is nearing death -- the latest top churchman to ring alarm bells about the state of the 83-year old pontiff's health.

Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn made his comments on the same day the pope's private secretary was trying to play down concerns about the pope's evident frailty.

Pope John Paul, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease and can no longer walk without help, has appeared weaker than normal in recent public appearances and has struggled to speak at times.

"The whole world is experiencing a pope who is sick, handicapped and dying -- I don't know how close to death he is -- who is approaching the last days and months of his life," Schoenborn told Austrian radio.

Later Schoenborn's spokesman, Erich Leitenberger, said the comment was meant "to be seen philosophically" and should not be interpreted literally.

Schoenborn, head of the Catholic Church in Austria and archbishop of Vienna, is seen as a possible successor to the pope, who celebrates the 25th anniversary of his pontificate later this month.

Earlier on Thursday, Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, the pope's long-term personal secretary, said recent comments by another senior cardinal about the pope's condition had been taken out of context.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, an influential German prelate who heads the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was quoted as saying by German magazine Bunte that the pope was "in a bad way". He called on the faithful to pray for the pope.

CARDINAL DISTRESS

However, Dziwisz said Ratzinger wept when he saw that comments made in the street had been reported in the press.

"Cardinal Ratzinger was crying yesterday," Dziwisz told reporters attending a meeting between the pope and the president of Lithuania at the Vatican.

"He didn't give anyone an interview, but when he was stopped by a journalist on the street he went as far as saying: 'If the pope is ill, pray for him,'" he said.

The Vatican has insisted that the pope intends to push ahead with a hectic programme of events this month, including the 25th anniversary celebrations, the beatification of Mother Teresa and a ceremony to invest some 30 new cardinals named last Sunday.

The pope told pilgrims at a general audience on Wednesday that "God willing" he would make a brief trip to the southern Italian city of Pompeii next Tuesday to visit a sanctuary there.

At one point in the audience he briefly stopped speaking and a clear look of frustration passed over his face. Seeing him struggling, the large crowd broke into applause to cheer him on and after a pause he continued in his flutey, breathless voice.

The pope had to skip last week's general audience because of an intestinal disorder.

Earlier this week, French Archbishop Philippe Barbarin, who was among the batch of newly appointed cardinals, told French radio: "The pope is in really bad shape."

Dziwisz urged reporters on Thursday not to overdramatise John Paul's frailty. He said much that had been written over the years had ultimately proved false, and with a smile added:

"Some journalists who in recent years have spoken and written a lot about the pope's health are already in heaven."

Drake Tungsten · October 5, 2003, 09:34

Quote:

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) -- A visibly tired Pope John Paul has told the new Archbishop of Canterbury that allowing openly homosexual clergy in the Anglican communion was a "serious difficulty" on the path to Christian unity.

The 83-year-old pope had difficulty reading his speech in English on Saturday at the first visit by Rowan Williams to the Vatican.

Williams, who was appointed last year, and the pope met privately for only 10 minutes ahead of the public part of the visit, which was open to a few reporters.

The private part was apparently kept short because of the pope's health. According to a papal aide, the pope started the meeting by asking Williams about "the situation in your church."

The pontiff, who suffers from Parkinson's disease, was determined to read his two-page speech, although many of his words were difficult to understand.

"As we give thanks for the progress that has already been made we must also recognize that new and serious difficulties have arisen on the path to unity," the pope said, his body visibly shaking as he sat in his private study.

This was a clear reference to the crisis currently rocking the Anglican communion after the Episcopalian Church in the United States appointed an openly gay bishop in New Hampshire.

"These difficulties are not all of a disciplinary nature, some extend to matters of faith and morals," the pope said.

Williams, wearing the traditional Anglican purple cassock and a cross given to him by the pope when he was appointed to Canterbury last year, was less direct.

In his speech, the bearded Williams spoke only of the "possibilities and challenges of our way forward together."

Both men said they were committed to unity between the churches that split in 1534.

"We share a desire to deepen our communion," the pope said.

As the Anglican delegation, which include Williams' wife Jane, left the study, they each bent to kiss the pope's ring.

Despite the cordial atmosphere, Williams' visit to the Vatican has been overshadowed by the Anglican crisis over whether or not to ordain openly homosexual men.

The crisis was sparked this year by the appointment by U.S. Anglicans of Gene Robinson as their first openly gay bishop.

Traditionalists, particularly the Africans, have denounced the move. They threaten to break with churches that bless same-sex unions and are considering ways to redraw the Anglican world map to escape liberal provinces.

Williams, a liberal who personally supports gays in the church, hosts a summit of Anglican leaders this month to try to avert a crisis in the 70 million-member world communion.

The two churches already are deeply split over the ordination of women priests, which Anglicans allow but the Vatican says Catholicism will never permit.

The homosexual issue was also on the agenda when Williams met on Friday with Cardinal Walter Kasper, head of the Vatican department for Christian Unity.

"I expressed my concerns over this problem, because it is not only an internal problem of the Anglican Communion, but it also touches on our relations," Kasper told Vatican Radio.

At least he's still doing important work in his last days. God bless him.

mindseye · October 5, 2003, 09:49

Yeah, it's awesome to see that even though he is dying, he was able to summon up enough strength to denounce homosexuals one last time.

His faith is clearly one based on a profound love of humanity.

Whaleboy · October 5, 2003, 09:49

Rufus T. Firefly · October 5, 2003, 09:53

This thread could have been titled "The Pope is Catholic" for all the news it contains.

Still, ol' JPII is racing the clock: will he hang on long enough to see his new cardinals appointed, thus stacking the deck in favor of his successor being another conservative? Or will his College-of-Cardinals-packing scheme fail? Stay tuned...

Drake Tungsten · October 5, 2003, 09:55

I think reuniting the Catholic and Anglican churches is a noble goal. Unfortunately, fashionable immorality is standing in the way of that goal, but it's still nice to see a dying man trying his best to achieve it.

BeBro · October 5, 2003, 10:02

Isn´t the Pope a commie? IIRC he was against the Iraq thingie....

Drake Tungsten · October 5, 2003, 10:04

I have a soft spot for dying commies (my favorite kind).

Az · October 5, 2003, 10:05

@Drake.

alva · October 5, 2003, 10:06

Quote:

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - A senior European cardinal says Pope John Paul is nearing death

Drake Tungsten · October 5, 2003, 10:07

Quote:

@Drake.

For which comment?

Saint Marcus · October 5, 2003, 10:16

@ alva

Az · October 5, 2003, 10:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Quote:

@Drake.

For which comment?

You wouldn't like me until I am dead?

Vesayen · October 5, 2003, 10:19

The pope hid Jewish children during the holocaust and smuggled them out of nazi controlled areas, he has a marker in the valley of the righteous at Yad Va'Shem(the holocaust memorial in Israel)-I cannot bring myself to say anything bad about him-this is truley a tragedy.

Drake Tungsten · October 5, 2003, 10:24

Quote:

You wouldn't like me until I am dead?

No, you misunderstood. I like dying commies. Dead commies have the annoying habit of becoming martyrs to stupid pinkos.

Saint Marcus · October 5, 2003, 10:26

related to this: do you think the pope will win the Nobel Peace price? He's nominated, and they may give it to him on his deathbed.

Pekka · October 5, 2003, 10:49

Saint Marcus, that's interesting. Maybe, very possible..

Theben · October 5, 2003, 10:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Quote:

You wouldn't like me until I am dead?

No, you misunderstood. I like dying commies. Dead commies have the annoying habit of becoming martyrs to stupid pinkos.

If you consider that we're all dying from the moment of conception, all commies are currently dying. Which means you luv all commies! Thank you! I feel blessed.

Drake Tungsten · October 5, 2003, 10:53

Quote:

If you consider that we're all dying from the moment of conception, all commies are currently dying. Which means you luv all commies! Thank you! I feel blessed.

This was going to be my next line of reasoning if Azazel didn't cheer up.

What kind of troll am I, still caring if the posters I like are upset or not?

August Borms · October 5, 2003, 10:58

About damn time

I hope the next pope is a black guy though

Theben · October 5, 2003, 11:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
What kind of troll am I, still caring if the posters I like are upset or not?

A piss-poor one, that's what.

(we need a troll smiley)

Q Classic · October 5, 2003, 11:09

Quote:

Isn´t the Pope a commie? IIRC he was against the Iraq thingie....

which is why all the commie leaders absolutely loved him.

Theben · October 5, 2003, 11:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed

Quote:

Isn´t the Pope a commie? IIRC he was against the Iraq thingie....

which is why all the commie leaders absolutely loved him.

Hey, he went to Cuba!

Drake Tungsten · October 5, 2003, 11:11

Don't you know anything about commies, Q Cubed? Murderous infighting is what they do best...

Bugs ****ing Bunny · October 5, 2003, 11:17

Why the hell would the Anglican church want unity with Rome? Beyond a cynical attempt to put bums on seats, and even given the fact that the Church of England is at heart a Catholic church, I fail to see the logic to this.

Oerdin · October 5, 2003, 11:25

The whole let's pretend to work together but not actually accomplish anything ithing s really big amoung the Christian churches right now.

DinoDoc · October 5, 2003, 11:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
related to this: do you think the pope will win the Nobel Peace price? He's nominated, and they may give it to him on his deathbed.

What's he done this year?

alva · October 5, 2003, 11:43

Quote:

related to this: do you think the pope will win the Nobel Peace price? He's nominated, and they may give it to him on his deathbed.

Yeah, great idea, afterall, him banning condoms was a great idea, especially for Africa

, c'mon he should be treated as a criminal.

Drake Tungsten · October 5, 2003, 11:44

Quote:

What's he done this year?

He criticized Bush, didn't he? Was good enough last year...

DinoDoc · October 5, 2003, 11:48

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
Yeah, great idea, afterall, him banning condoms was a great idea, especially for Africa

, c'mon he should be treated as a criminal.

Interestingly, if the Pope actually had the power to ban condoms a huge drop in new AIDS cases would emerge because they'd be following the Church's other teachings (abstainance).